Hi, Lorne. I understand your goals. You want to put on some muscle and some size. And here I go telling you to drop BF first?!? I also see that you’re highly motivated and want to cover some territory fast. But Rome (and the perfect body) wasn’t built in a day. Try to relax a bit and enjoy the journey.
Yes, my recommendation is to get down to about 10% BF first and then start to bulk. Myself, I’d recommend that you go through the article archives, group by group, do a search on the word “Berardi” and print and read everything the man has ever written.
Re your training, stick out the HST for the next month. Myself, I change out my program about that often. In the meantime, do a search for Joel Marion’s Ripped Rugged & Dense, a 5x5 strength program specific for those trying to lose BF. Another good program is Meltdown. You’d do well with either one.
But once again, Lorne, stick with your current program for a month and read, read, read in the meantime. Most of what it’s going to take to get you to where you want to go is going to be getting your diet right. Which brings up another thing. Are you keeping a food log?
Hi, DanS. I’m sorry, but I REFUSE to accept the set-point theory. If I did, I would have given up trying to lose weight five years ago. I kept looking for some supplement, some pill, some “thing” that would help me lose weight. I tried doing 2 hours of cardio a day. Then I added in the weights, an hour and a half 5 days a week. My calories were low --really low. One could argue that my set point wouldn’t allow me to lose weight.
Well, it’s five months later, and I’ve lost 20 pounds. Not as fast as I want (had a multi-month plateau), but I’ve figured out a few things and am losing at about 1 pound per week.
So, the first thing I’d recommend, Dan, is that you start a food log. Third, start T-Dawg 2.0. If you do that, I’ll help you with the details. And it’s not just me, there are plenty of others here on the forum who are extremely knowledgable and incredibly generous with their time.
P.S., Don’t worry too much about the BF%. The non-athletic versions can be VERY off. Way back my scale was reporting 32% when an experienced PT did a 9-point BF test that came in at 21%. Do a search for Jason Norcross’s article on measuring BF.
Good luck to you, Dan!!! And if you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask.
Hungry, you’re really missing out on the recuperative window of opportunity. Take the other half of your Surge IMMEDIATELY after working out. That’s how it was intended to be taken. From there, eat a real-food meal about an hour to an hour and a half later.
Hi Lorne,
Okay, as far as the metabolism goes, there’s no way I can tell you for sure. But I will say that feeling hungry an hour after you’ve eaten doesn’t have anything to do with it. You feel hungry when your body expects food (i.e., regular feeding times), not because it’s burned everything up already. Also, as was pointed out above, you’re not really eating that much. If I had to say based on what you’ve written, I’d say “slow”.
I like the massive eating protocol a lot. But it can be hard to keep track of. So the advice you got to start a food log was very good. Start one.
I would also, since you’re 42, start taking Tribex if you’re not already. Excellent supp for those of us in our 40s…
I would opt for Meltdown over HST at this point, were I you. And after a month or so on it, I’d do Fat to Fire. THEN, while STILL dieting, I’d do a program like 5x5 to build some strength ('cause you’ll lose it on the previous two programs) up to get ready for your bulking cycle, which could be something like GVT or OVT.
Sound complicated? Look at it this way: I’ve just outlined what you can do for the next four months. All you have to do is follow through now - and of course get your diet right. TT was right - it takes time. Try to keep that in mind.
Good luck, and definitely do let us know how things go.
Tampa, I totally aggree with you about set-point when it comes to loosing fat. I’ll start that food log. Do you know of a good book I could buy with correct calories and the macro’s? I tried to be cheep about it and look on the web but some of the foods on the sight I was looking at seemed really off. I need a good one of those before i can start a food log.
Dan, I’m proud of you! There are a lot of people (usually the ones who want to lose weight and say they can’t) that are resistent to the idea. It doesn’t take long (three minutes, if that much?) for me to do it since I eat a lot of the same foods every day.
You want what’s called a nutritional desk reference with macronutrient breakdown and calories. All you care about is fat grams, protein grams, carb grams, fiber and calories. A big one with a lot of different food entries should run you about $17. Mine is dog-eared from use.
Remember to subtract fiber from carb grams when you’re calculating your carbs.
Also, do a search on “missing link” or “lazy.” One of the article’s is called “The Lazy Man’s Guide to Keeping a Food Log,” or something like that. You’ll find it extremely helpful. Myself, I keep my food log in an Excel spreadsheet and do the cut & paste thing.
Ok so here is where I am at. I’m going to take the next couple days to get used to the food log and plan out my diet. Tomorow night I’ll get the groceries I need and start on saterday. I’ll do the best I can without that book until it arives. what else can you do right? I actually tried to start version 2 allready but when I was looking on the web for profiles it said a hamburger was 110 calories. that was rediculous. So i kind of just dropped the ball after that. I’m glad I’m getting back on track.
Tampa thanks for all the help. The Nutribase Nutrition Facts Desk Reference is in the mail and on the way. So what you are saying is that if food x had 50 grams of carbs and 10 grams of fiber, i should only add 40 grams of carbs to my log? Is that right? And if that is true to i have to subtract that from my calories as well? So would I take 40 cals off? Sorry just a bit confused by that one comment.
You’re exactly right. If a particular food had 50g of carbs, 10g of fiber and 162 kCal, you would record it as having 40g of carbs because the other 10 don’t affect blood sugar or have calories.
Now, as far as the calories go, using the example above, you would record the number of calories as 162. You wouldn’t subtract the fiber grams from the calories.
Learning how to keep a food log, measuring your food, looking things up – it’s all a real big aggravation in the beginning. I absolutely hated it. But it didn’t take long at all to become comfortable with what I do. Did you find the article I was talking about? It’s called “The Missing Ingredient.”
Nutribase’s nutritional desk reference is excellent, by the way. Good choice. You’re on you way!!!
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Hey Dan- great advice from TT. Just a few other things about a food log:[p]
- VERY soon you’ll have a number of “staple meals” that are formed from a number of different components (e.g. 1 can of tuna, 1tsp mayo, 1 cup veggies). For these you’ll also have a nutritional value wrt F, C, P, and cals. Therefore very soon also your food log will take like 1/4 the amount of effort, as you’ll simply put- “so-and-so meal” and the corresponding values. You can calculate any minor variations into the meal values.[p]
- By law all foods in packaging need to be nutritionally labelled. Makes it so much easier. [p]
Good luck. SRS
When I work out late at night, I wait an hour and eat a bow of cottage cheese (about 4-5oz) and go to bed.
Thanks SRS. It will be a pain in the begining but it should get easier.
tampa I do take the rest, right after."i sip half a surving of surge during workout and the rest post. 1.5 hours later i eat " i guess i should have said immediatley. thanks
Thanks, Hungry. I obviously didn’t read your message the way you meant it to be read. I feel much better now. (grin)
a short note to say thank you to all who have taught me a lot from this thread. appreciate your help.
When do you start the 15’s ??
Mikeh: thanks so much for getting back to me…and for remembering my communication with you about my HST program. Well, I had to start the whole darn thing again…I didn’t give myself the requisite 12 day SD when I began…so against my emotions, I stopped working out cold turkey for about 12-14 days…yuck, but started up again about a week ago, I’ve now completed my first week of HST doing 15’s. They weren’t easy to be honest, especially the pull ups and the dips - because even doing 15 of these just with my body weight was a challenge. By having to add weight each time to my starting body weight, has made these two exercises very challening. I am trying to surpass the 15RM’s I established for myself when I did my base measurements…we’ll see what happens. The key thing for me, Mikeh, will be the diet…I am trying to get onto a Massive Eating plan now…tell me how are you doing? What are you working on? And how did you find HST…And ESPECIALLY what kind of diet were you on when you did HST? Would be interested to hear your experiences? (by the way, for the record, I’m probably at about 15% BF right now - 5’8", 160 pounds (42 yrs old). My goal is to really bump my weight (muscle mass) up. If I could see 170 pounds of lean body mass, I’d be a very happy person. Again, Mikeh, thanks for enquiring, I really appreciate the interest…it definitely keeps me motivated to know there are other t-maggers out there eager to help each other out. Keep up the good work, yourself.
I have a question that was raised by reading this thread (although it is only semi-relevant now)…
In one of your replies you mentioned veggies as a good food to eat post-workout. I am not sure if you meant post-workout MEAL (the 2nd meal after workout but first containing solid foods) or if you think veggies are a good source of carbs immediately after activity.
It is my understanding that most veggies aren’t high GI, thus making them less than optimal for the ‘window’ of time when nutrients need to be provided to the muscle. Just looking for some clarification - thanks!
Yes the first couple days of 15’s SUCK!! especially if you are used to 5x5. I can’t do 15 pullups either so I sub with pulldowns for WO 1-4 and then pullup around 12-13 reps for WO 5 and 6.
JMB Massive Eating plan or Bryan's one will add mass and fat.
This cycle I’m also trying to add mass. I’m at 3000-3200 cal per day (170x18). I started my 2nd cycle at 170 and 11%BF. Right now I’m 178 at 13% (43 yr) You will add a little more fat during your cycle but you can always “diet and cut” during your next cycle. I’ve found you can loose fat with a diet like “T-dawg II” and HST. When you get to 160 lb at 10% BF I think you will like what you see in the mirror ?? Another nice benefit lifting HST style are my tendons are healing and a lot of my old 1 rep max are now my 5 rep max.
Kathleen, you’re dead on. I use (and recommend) a post-recovery DRINK (like Surge). From there, your next whole-food MEAL would ideally be protein plus carbs (P+C), with veggies being an excellent choice.