[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bram Wiley wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Ok. One more post.
What you probably did was push, pull, squat and deadlift (maybe) but didn’t eat. Gotta do it all, man. Gotta do it all.
[/quote]
The EAT part is most important. If you don’t eat enough, and you don’t work your biceps (or any other part) you body can scavenge protein from the muscles you are not using. Which is probably what is happening.
But it would be less likely if you are deadlifting really heavy - your body would be less likely to scavenge from your arms.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
The EAT part is most important. If you don’t eat enough, and you don’t work your biceps (or any other part) you body can scavenge protein from the muscles you are not using. Which is probably what is happening.
But it would be less likely if you are deadlifting really heavy - your body would be less likely to scavenge from your arms.
[/quote]
By that rationale, everyone could do clean and jerks, eat enough, and have a perfect body.
If you are getting results with your program then that is great, omitting curls didn’t work for me, so it is a lesson learned.
Mind you I would biceps low on the list if I was training for a jiu-jitsu tournament, but since right now I am just a narcissist I will keep them in.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bram Wiley wrote:
…omitting curls didn’t work for me, so it is a lesson learned.
Ommitting or including curls was not necessarily the topic at hand. The title of the thread is “Best for Biceps Hypertrophy”. I have no problem with curls. I do 'em. My point is that what is best for overall body hypertrophy (mass building compound movements) would indirectly be what is best for biceps hypertrophy.
I have a hard time believing that you or anybody else for that matter can, for example, have 28" thighs, 52" chest, 20" neck with thick shoulders and back and yet languish behind with 14" or 15" arms. You would be a freak of nature, IMO.
Go search out and read some of Cosgrove’s writings on this subject.
[/quote]
Very good post!
I would be remiss if I didn’t add my favorite bicep movement to this thread.
Three sets of close grip Chin-ups. Close grip meaning about 8" between your hands. Keep the rep range between 8 and 12.
Not only will your biceps grow but you also get some residule effect on the lats. And many other supporting muscle groups.
I personally love close-grip pulldowns focusing on the biceps through the movement rather than the back. Because the back assists you’ll be able to use a lot more weight compared to barbell curls. I like to combine these with some incline DB curls.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bram Wiley wrote:
…omitting curls didn’t work for me, so it is a lesson learned.
Ommitting or including curls was not necessarily the topic at hand. The title of the thread is “Best for Biceps Hypertrophy”. I have no problem with curls. I do 'em. My point is that what is best for overall body hypertrophy (mass building compound movements) would indirectly be what is best for biceps hypertrophy.
I have a hard time believing that you or anybody else for that matter can, for example, have 28" thighs, 52" chest, 20" neck with thick shoulders and back and yet languish behind with 14" or 15" arms. You would be a freak of nature, IMO.
Go search out and read some of Cosgrove’s writings on this subject.
[/quote]
I disagree with Cosgrove on a number of things and I’ve read all the articles he’s posted here and at elitefts.
Some people can never train their biceps and have great arm development, I used to work with a guy like this. He would never train his arms with direct arm work because they would get out of proportion.
I disagree with your statement “what is best for overall mass is best for the biceps.” Working the biceps is best for the biceps, if you get enough out of chins that’s fine, but I will do both. I would never suggest that someone concerned with arm hypertrophy should omit curls. If they get good enough results then they can take them out.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
My point is that what is best for overall body hypertrophy (mass building compound movements) would indirectly be what is best for biceps hypertrophy.
[/quote]
One more thing, I believe what’s best for overall hypertrophy is compound and isolation work.
Give EDT for Arms (Staley’s program) a try. I also recommend Ian King’s Great Guns in 12 weeks. Like all muscles- biceps respond to a variety of exercises.
Having said all that- my new personal favorites are preacher curls where I hang over the back side of the preacher bench.
I’m one of those guys that doesn’t do alot of direct bi and tri work. They are hit pretty well with all the pushing and pulling work.
However, has anyone suggested an isolation bicep movement to failure followed immediately with a pulling movement such as reverse grip pulldowns?
Am I really looking at a thread like this? I simply cannot stand these questions. Heavy barbell curls nail your biceps. Weighted chins and pullups are gonna work your biceps hard as well. Both can lead to gains in biceps hypertrophy.
It’s not neccessarily a question of which is better. This is like arguing about what’s better squat or deadlift. The answer is who the hell cares! They are two of the best exercises you could ever perform, so be like Nike and just do it. Are you trying to build a program that only focuses on “one” movement or what?
Also their are tons of arm programs on here so go do one. Crazily a lot of them incorporate both chins and curls.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Am I really looking at a thread like this? I simply cannot stand these questions. Heavy barbell curls nail your biceps. Weighted chins and pullups are gonna work your biceps hard as well. Both can lead to gains in biceps hypertrophy.
It’s not neccessarily a question of which is better. This is like arguing about what’s better squat or deadlift. The answer is who the hell cares! They are two of the best exercises you could ever perform, so be like Nike and just do it. Are you trying to build a program that only focuses on “one” movement or what?
Also their are tons of arm programs on here so go do one. Crazily a lot of them incorporate both chins and curls. [/quote]
I agree with this. Do variations curls and do some pull ups or chin ups or whatever. I really do think diet is most important. Don’t understand why people seem to think that the biceps grow any different than any other bodypart. Train em hard and heavy,eat and they will grow.
[quote]K-Narf wrote:
H factor wrote:
Am I really looking at a thread like this? I simply cannot stand these questions. Heavy barbell curls nail your biceps. Weighted chins and pullups are gonna work your biceps hard as well. Both can lead to gains in biceps hypertrophy.
It’s not neccessarily a question of which is better. This is like arguing about what’s better squat or deadlift. The answer is who the hell cares! They are two of the best exercises you could ever perform, so be like Nike and just do it. Are you trying to build a program that only focuses on “one” movement or what?
Also their are tons of arm programs on here so go do one. Crazily a lot of them incorporate both chins and curls.
I agree with this. Do variations curls and do some pull ups or chin ups or whatever. I really do think diet is most important. Don’t understand why people seem to think that the biceps grow any different than any other bodypart. Train em hard and heavy,eat and they will grow.[/quote]
They think this because people have complicated the issue to the point of insanity so they can sell books or training programs. I don’t even understand someone NOT training arms directly. That makes no sense whatsoever, especially if the goal is larger biceps.
The best excercise for biceps hypertrophy is an old, ugly mean excercise. A lot of people my age have forgotten it. In fact, no one at the college gym I used to go to did it, and they all thought I would get hurt doing it.
It’s called the deadlift.
The second is one of my most favorite excercises. It’s called the spoon lift.
Stick a spoon is some food, and then insert food into mouth. Helps. A lot!
That being said, prioritize big compound lifts. But do some curls, and some reverse curls, at the end of your workout. You can’t except the biceps to balloon up if you don’t give them a little attention. Compound lifts work the bi’s, and so do curls. Compound lifts only make the Biceps do the amount of work that is needed to help out the back. They will only grow as much as the other muscles need them to do. If you concentrate on curling, then you haven’t read enough articles to fill a thimble. Give the biceps some loving, but let the deadlift, chins and rows be your main lady.
The reason I brought this up was that i really like to do compound movements like squat, dead, clean, pull-up…since i wrestle I want my whole body to be strong and function well, but I would also like a little bit of hypertrophy to show off some.
Now don?t get me wrong I like doing curls and stuff, it?s just whenever i do them i feel like I am not really helping myself, but i do get a great pump. But when ever i do chins i do about 4x4-6 reps with and extra 45lbs on and well it hits me hard but I don?t really get a pump.
So I was wondering if there is a difference in the amount of growth a person gets with the two exercises, strength, and size wise.
Oh but I do get a major pump with weighted pull-ups…
[quote]Sxio wrote:
Why don’t you do a tri-set? Pull ups, then chin ups, then DB curls.
Best of all worlds and the pump will be mindblowing. [/quote]
I do something similar. It is a true killer! It’s more like an explosion than a pump!!
Try towel pull ups. Throw a towel over the chin up bar, grab on and pull yourself up. Keep your hands from touching each other, that’s cheating. The hardest part is letting go of the towel when you’re done from the pain of gripping it so tight!