Scott613 I did not say that pull-ups increased upper body pushing strength (don?t put words in my mouth) Reread my post a third time bud.
Oh by the way I?m a competitive powerlifter in the NASA federation (all nature, and no gear). I?m 22 years old 230lb my bench press is 430lb, squat is 600lb, deadlifts is 600lb. I?m in the gym 1-2 hours a day almost every day.
I do however agree with most of what you wrote.
Scott613 you wrote: ?What kills me about topics like this is that comparing the bench and chin up are like comparing apples and oranges. Neither is better than the other. There are situations where one would be more applicable in a training program certainly. The root of training is performance enhancement (unless you an abercrombie or CK model, then you have your own reasons). Performance enhancement is achieved by determining the needs of a trainee. And I hate to say it, but a chin up isn’t a one-stop shop, cure-all exercise.?
I agree completely with what you wrote above.
the posts were just starting to sound like chinups are “all you need”. no harm intended. this is always a good debate. i think we have run it into the ground! good #'s by the way. knocking on an elite door soon! congrats!
The thing is, a lot of these debates start by stating that “if you could only chose one…” That’s garbage. You don’t have to and shouldn’t only choose one exercise.
I think this is sort of how the “bench press: good or bad” debate gets going. Too many people think they need to bench press. There are so many substitute exercises, but yet people continue to bench year in and out never taking a break from it.
When people choose to do this, I have to agree with ZEB, you are very likely to injure yourself. But I think it is because of the overuse of the exercise, not the exercise itself. If one chose any other compound movement and performed non-stop for years, I believe an injury would likely occur there, too.
Variety is the key to staying strong and healthy.
So sayeth the King:
“The first time I heard about the “You should only go half range because it’s too dangerous to go full range” cult, I nearly fell over backwards. Let’s not give any further credibility to that one! But if that wasn’t enough, the human over-reaction appears to have infected the bench press with theories presented like facts, suggesting that the bench is either not functional or not specific to human movement or sport. Those who believe this think the lift should not be done (or only be done lying on the floor). Poor souls. The greatest losers here are the athletes training under these morons!”
Man, isn’t it fun when all you do is exhaust yourself and waste valuable time when you have to prove that you’re right? Did any of you “arguers” even get anywhere in your conversations?
It’s a debate, there is no wrong or right, there is just what one believes. It is actually nice to see people who have the balls to step up and state why they believe what they do regarding lifts. I still think the bench press is a fantastic exercise, and that overhead pressing is not particularly a great way to go for everyone. I did however enjoy reading what most had to say. A lot of it was even enlightening.
Let’s see, Renegade, do you have some new-age hippy crap about how we should all just get a long and not debate the merits of various forms of exercise? Do you realize this is a training topic forum and there are going to be strongly heated debates about topics such as this? Do you realize that when MOST (not ALL) people have a strong belief in a system or methodology that debates may become a bit heated? Guess what, it shows they have a passion for what they do. Go carve some f***ing concrete with a cup of java and figure out how to screw people out of there cash with a bunch of BS. Get under the damn bar or shut up…
Just my humble opinion…
Scott613,
No, I’m not a hippie. I’m just comfortable with my beliefs and don’t have to prove that I’m right to anyone excect myself.
You can be right, I’ll be rich.
Ok, I think everyone is missing the big picture here: That is outside of PL and OL - no lift is sport specific, thus it’s the general training effect of the lifts that should be important.
That being said, Bench vs. Overhead pressing - the general training effect of the Bench is greater than the general effect of Overhead, at least in terms of weight capable of being lifted.
Empirical observation - one or the other… anytime I do both on a consistent basis my shoulders act up.
Lastly - on Mo and Ben - Ben put up 405x2 3 days out of Seoul (and also put up 2sets x 6reps x 600 in the squat 8 months earlier)… Mo has gotten a lot stronger since joining HSI. Both of them are/were known for their amazing starts, which are primarily reliant on starting strength. Ben wasn’t a big Power Cleaner (hasn’t done any since 1982) and Mo only does these every other week… Clearly, 2 things are at work here, namely the strength developed in the weightroom is general and not specific and the work on the track allowed further gains in the weight room. A third, more dubious thing was certainly going on in Ben’s case, as well.
[quote]Renegade wrote:
You can be right, I’ll be rich.[/quote]
How exactly do you expect to get rich being wrong? I mean, if you’re not rich already, the money has to come from someone else.
Unless, of course, you’re going to spend 25 years leveraging the power of compound interest. Which isn’t “right” unless you’re too incompetent to beat the bank’s interest rate through outside investments.
Renegade,
You be rich I choose to be strong. $600 for a cert that doesn’t mean shit?!?! What a deal! The thing is when people see what BS the product is, sales stop. What’s next? RT for badmitten?
CDarklock,
Don’t you know man? All you have to do is come up with a catchy name and sell a certification at the great price of $600! Dude, all you have to do is the snatch and an insanely high workload (i.e. overtraining). That’s all it takes to get rich in this biz bro’!