I thought it would be good to gather the thoughts of a large number of people on the benefits and disadvantages of the overhead press.
Joe Defranco finds they hurt his shoulders, and the guys at elite fitness seem to agree. On the other hand, a lot of lifters from long ago used to specialize in the overhead press, and their shoulders stayed healthy (they also did little or no benching). Arthur Drescher, the author of the Weightlifting Encyclopedia, believes that the LACK of overhead pressing is the source of shoulder injuries in contemporary olympic weightlifting.
All of this made me wonder if it was primarily heavy benching that messed up people’s shoulders so that they could not do overhead lifts.
I recently increased the amount of OH presses in my training with the result that my benchpress increased quite alot. However, I only do military press and dumbell press, both standing. NO press behind neck and my shoulders are “healtier” than ever.
I agree. Standing O.H. pressing when done properly, will increase your bench and keep your shoulders healthy. More so than training movements which strictly follow the path of bench pressing alone.
Simply stated I think that a training program focusing entirely on overhead pressing for shoulder development/strength is problematic. I have the same opinion in regards to a program focusing entirely on non pressing movements.
Smoking crack probably wouldn’t be that bad for you if you could do it every now and then. The problem is people seem to want to do it all the time.
i think joe answered that question in one of his posts, he stated that he had a training partner who successfully used overhead presses in his routine with no incidence of injury. it may just be a matter of genetic structure, flexibility and/or training history. if you have a certain genetic structure you may be more prone to injuries from overhead presses? If you are tight genetically or from your training/sport you may be at more risk from injury due to the altered length tension relationships caused by that sport/activity in the shoulder joint. if you have a training history like me where you wrestled for 14 years in high school and college and your current hobby is MMA with boxing, then you may be more prone to injury in the shoulder from those two stimulus. i think the key is to include overhead pressing into your current routine and see if it 1. causes you pain (don’t do it then) 2. if it actually makes you stronger (if it does then use it, if it doesn’t then get rid of it). at the recent westside seminar jim wendler talked about how triceps extensions never really helped him with his lockout so he doesn’t use them despite the fact that other people swear by them. i guess the answer he was giving is use the exercise and if like he found, that for jim wendler triceps ext. did nothing, then dump it no matter what others say. i find that triceps extentions work for me but for my friend they only make his elbows hurt so he uses rack lockouts/high board presses. different strokes for different folks i guess.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Three of the guys at elite who dont like overhead work dont like it because they work with football players. Football players shoulders are already beat to hell. The powerlifters dont like it because their shoulders are beat up from doing low bar squats. If youve never had a heavy weight on your shoulders in the low bar position then you cant know the pain that it can cause. you have to remember the context in which they were speaking.
steele 21, thanks for the kind words, that is the first great post i have ever recieved. that seriously pumps me up. i guess you never know what effect the things you say are gonna have on people cause right now i feel good!
I am a big fan of overhead lifts. One important thing is to balance all pressing moves with pulling moves. Thus, make sure you do pull-ups to balance overhead work and bent over rows to balance bench work. Balancing the pulling and pressing moves will build stability in the shoudlers and you will avoid imbalances and potential injuries.
My Vote goes toward the ‘pro overhead pressing’ side of the debate.
I started from the typical bench and row powerlifting type background and thought that overhead pressing would only hurt my bench. Well, after 20 years of that thinking, I starting focusing on overhead pressing recently, both military (standing) as well as push presses and low and behold my benches, after years of stagnation started to increase!! In fact I was not even working the bench that much yet my bench weights went up.
Not only that but overall shoulder joint health and stabilization improved so I am now a BIG proponent of standing overhead presses of all types (even hand stands for warm ups!).
I love doing seated military presses. However, i dont have the flexibility to go to the base of my neck, but this could be a result of using a wide grip. With the wide grip, i only touch the crown area of my head. At this point my arms are at 90 degrees. Once i hit 90 degrees, time to go back up.
I think the key is to not go past 90 degrees. I suspect this may be were many people have been injured by them.
Even while peforming heavy bench and heavy military presses i have never been hurt. Everything is about technique and utilizing an exercise to your advantage and not going beyond your range of motion.
I think the answer to overhead pressing is answered depending on whether or not you have had an acute injury or injuries in the past. I have subluxated both shoulders more times than I can count. Overhead pressing kills me. Thats why the guys at elite do not like overhead pressing. Most were football players and train football players and this injury is common in football players.
I am the bicipital tendonitis and borderline impingement syndrome king. However, in the last two years my shoulders have been in better shape than ever. I attribute a few things to this.
When they start to flare up I ice immediately at least 3 times per day. I also move into a cycle where I focus on rotators and rear delts.
I perform dynamic stretching briefly before training and some static work right after.
I perform overhead presses for no more than three weeks at a time in a progression starting with relatively light weight and real short rest intervals. I do the pressing with palms facing.
On ME day where I follow up the main movement with either flat or incline dumbell work, I either train rotators, rear delts, or don’t train shoulders at all. Once a week for direct shoulder work (on DE) is fine for me.
To Goldberg’s point, you have to be really careful, particularly approaching meet day, that you avoid flaring up your shoulders. I almost always go into a meet with some shoulder discomfort b/c of training heavy in gear before the meet, but it has to be manageable.
I agree with Mike Mahler. Balance overhead pressing with vertical pulling (pullups, chinups etc.) and balance horizontal pushing with horizontal rowing (bent over rows and I like to use the inverted row or what some call horizontal pullup.
I second goldberg,having suffered shoulder problems in the past I too find it difficult to perform overhead presses.
I cant say that benching or oh presses are to blame though. Bad form, overtraining and strength imbalances IMO were the primary cause of my problem, also my triceps are freakishly strong and I am able to push alot more weight than my shoulders can handle.
I still bench and oh press but now I know my limitations and can adjust accordingly. You know what they say about hindsight.
If you have no pain or problems with benching or overheads, by all means keep pressing, just make sure to keep your shoulders healthy by strengthening the whole shoulder girdle including rotators.
If you have pain associated with these motions then stop or limit them and find alternatives. Improvise, adapt and overcome.
It all boils down to individual differences. Just my .02
Perhaps my response doesn’t line up with Goldberg’s question in that tendonitis and impingement syndromes are much more chronic in nature. I don’t recall having ever had an acute shoulder injury other than a mild separation at the AC which healed over time and is asymptomatic.