Bench Press Useless?

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Bench Press useless? No, not at all! I can’t think of a better way for a shallow chested, long armed person to damage their shoulders over time.

[/quote]

Of course you were gonna reply with this, ZEB.

First, the kid never described his physique. For all we know he short-armed, barrel-chested, and has an over-developed external rotator.

Second, the bench press is standard testing for the NFL combine. If he as any thoughts of going pro, he better be able to bench press.

Third, the bench press does have a carry-over to other exercises. So while the actual pressing movement of the exercise doesn’t directly carry-over into sports, it does help build a solid foundation of general strength.

22

poper, I used to be a pole vaulter back in high school, and from my experience, here’s some stuff that should help you train.

Bench press is a great compound movement, but I believe that the only significant help that you will get for your sport from bench press is some development of the strength of your tricepts, but there are other excercises that are better (dips).

For your sport, you need to think about what muscle groups are used in each part of the movement - your approach, then the plant, the ride, the twist and then your push-off over the bar.

Sprinting with a pole in your hands is a lot different than sprinting when you can pump your arms back and forth, so in order to increase my speed I practiced by sprinting up a grass hill with a pole in my hands. (actually it was a small tree that weighed about three times what my pole weighed)This must have looked really odd to the neighbors, but boy did it work. After doing this for a while, running down a nice runway with the regular pole felt like flying.

I also did a ton of pull ups and chin ups.

Another training method that worked wonders for me was working with a rope.

I got a large diameter rope about the width of a pole and hung it from a tree branch. Approach the rope and grip it the way you would grip your pole when you plant it in the box. From that standing position, do your leg drive, twist and push off. As you get better, you can add weight. I used ankle wieghts which are less than ideal, but they were what I had. The x vest that was shown on this site recently would really do the trick.

You need strong abs, a strong back, and strong legs to excell in this sport. Targeting these areas will help. The only problem with such sport specific training is that you run the risk of creating an imbalance in your body’s structure, so be sure to keep up a conventional training program along with the sport specific stuff.

Good luck. I really miss the sport. I think I’ll go home and hang a rope in the backyard and see if I can still do it.

HB

23

Hah, thanks HB.
I’m graduating Highschool this year and am going to be polevaulting D1 at Rutgers New Brunswick New Jersey.
My routine consists of tons of pullups, olympic lifts, hamstring strengthening, gymnastic work, plyometrics, and sprint work, besides good old polevaulting.
Thanks for the input.

24

Hey malonated why don’t you ask him what his physique looks like? I have no idea, but if he does have a shallow chest and long arms, he will get injured benching.

Who cares what the NFL wants relative to Bench Pressing? Do you think the NFL has your long term health in mind? They have their long term “fiscal health” in mind. And when you think about it how many kids in High School are actually going to make the pros? I bet a whole lot more hurt themselves Benching!

As far as the Bench Press as a good “carry over exercise” there are far better. Clean & Press, Squat, Pull-ups, Standing Press just to name a few.

Look, you can love the Bench Press all you want. I have no problem with that. just know that if the trainee has the wrong body type it’s just a matter of time before the Bench Press injures his shoulder joints…not if but when!

Why do I bother posting about it when the opportunity arises? Their might be a few guys on the forum who will heed my advice and save their shoulder joints. And I have done the right thing…not the popular thing…the right thing!

25

I agree with the fact that the bench press has limited carry over to football. The carry over in my opinion is for strengthing the upper body to withstand the stress of football and exploding the arms away from the body…But I think there is too much emphasis on the bench press by NFL standards. What difference does it make if a lineman can bench 600lbs. if he can’t go with the speed of the game and misses blocking assignments and isn’t quick off the snap. I think the squat and deadlift are better standards of strength/endurance because you are putting your entire body into it just like on the field. Thats just my 2 cents. Stay motivated.

26

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Hey malonated why don’t you ask him what his physique looks like? I have no idea, but if he does have a shallow chest and long arms, he will get injured benching.[/quote]

I’m not going to ask him what his physique looks like. You can, you brought up physique issues first. In addition, even if he does have horrible “benching physique,” I doubt he will get injured if he only benched 6 weeks out of the year.

Look, ZEB, we already had our argument about the bench press. I don’t think it’s “useless,” but I certainly don’t think it’s as dangerous as you claim. I agree, it can be, but so can any exercise if overdone. Variety is the key.

I just wanted to take a little shot at you since you shoot down the bench any chance you have. I think it’s funny. But, I also like that you do it. You’re not a sheep. You have your own opinion and back it up with a decent argument(sometimes).

[quote]
Who cares what the NFL wants relative to Bench Pressing? Do you think the NFL has your long term health in mind? They have their long term “fiscal health” in mind. And when you think about it how many kids in High School are actually going to make the pros? I bet a whole lot more hurt themselves Benching![/quote]

Okay, I’m wrong here. I don’t know where the football idea came from. The guy’s a pole vaulter, not a football player. And, I totally agree with you, the NFL does not care about your long-term health. But, they do care about how many times a draftee can bench 225 lbs. Not my rules, but if I was a mid-round pick, and my contract depended on it, I damn sure would be working my bench press.

[quote]
As far as the Bench Press as a good “carry over exercise” there are far better. Clean & Press, Squat, Pull-ups, Standing Press just to name a few.[/quote]

I like all those exercises, but I see no reason why the bench press couldn’t be added a few cycles out of the year. I guess it depends on your goals.

[quote]
Look, you can love the Bench Press all you want. I have no problem with that. just know that if the trainee has the wrong body type it’s just a matter of time before the Bench Press injures his shoulder joints…not if but when![/quote]

I agree, it is a matter of time. But if you train smart(use good form, don’t over-bench, cycle through and use different exercises), that “time” might never come.

[quote]
Why do I bother posting about it when the opportunity arises? Their might be a few guys on the forum who will heed my advice and save their shoulder joints. And I have done the right thing…not the popular thing…the right thing![/quote]

27

lol.

I love it ZEB, you still cant let this shoulder bs go.

28

In High School, how much you Bench determines your position in the “food chain”. If you can out bench your buddy, your higher up than him. Right or wrong, a lot of importance is placed on that one lift, if you’re a weak bencher you lose respect.

29

It really depends on the sport and position.
Utilizing the bench press in football is a good idea especially for tackles and guards.
The bench press probable would not have a big carryover for a track athlete, unless used for one of the throwers. My point is it?s not the exercise that?s important but how it?s used.

30

cwick0,

I don’t let it go because I’m right!

Malonated,

I respect your opinion. Pardon me if I disagree in this particular case. In a few years you may agree with me.

31

MikeTheBear You wrote: “deadlifting is kind of useless too!”
Wrong here’s why deadlifting has direct carryover to almost ever sport. Deadlifting is a very natures exercise and easy to teach. It is a movement that everyone does every day to pick up objects of the ground. It is an awesome movement to increase sprinting speed if utilized correctly. Even the evil Russian recommends the deadlift as the epitome of functional training. It also can be loaded and used to increase strength, strength-speed, and speed- strength depending on you goals! It?s also a great movement to train the nervous system. I could go on and on but I?ll stop here.

numba56 I disagree that the bench press stimulates the nervous system more then any other upper body exercise, the chin up is by far the best upper body exercise to stimulate the nervous system. The chin up is the upper body?s equivalent to the squat. It is also the upper body strength test.

32

lol

33

I signed up last week to Matt Furey’s fitness reports and yesterday received a fitness report titled “Bench Press Bad for Shoulders.” Mattt Furey then listed the reasons why the bench press is a “bad” exercise and makes a decent argument. Here’s a part of what he wrote.

"In the olden days, whenever you heard about someone tearing their rotator cuff, you automatically assumed it must be a Big Leauge pitcher.

Not anymore. Rotator cuff injuries are very common in most sports today,as well as in the weight room.

The reasons:

#1. Reliance on the bench press as a measure of upper body strength or to build big pecs.

Danger: In building the pecs, the shoulder is compromised. This unnatural lift leaves many powerful men crippled as they age. Their rotator cuff is literally shot - and sometimes on BOTH shoulders.

#2. Failure to do natural bodyweight movements that strengthen the shoulders beyond belief.

What ‘natural’ bodyweight movements are these?

Answer: Handstand pushups - along with a variety of other exercises done from a handstand position.

Handstand work used to be a ‘staple’ in the training repertoire of all series fitness enthusiasts. Then the tee-vee arrived and the butt-flop took its place - along with the bench press. Between the two, sitting on your ‘arse’ and lying on your back to do bench presses, we’ve got a nation of virtual weaklings.

Want real upper body strength? Then train yourself with handstand pushups and other handstand exercises.

Avoid the bench press like the plague. It’s just NOT good for you."

I don’t know if handstand pushups are the answer but I know that my experience with the bench press is not the best. My personal best on the bench press was 335 and I still bench press but not like I use to. As an old guy (36 years old) I injured my rotator cuffs a few years ago when doing decline presses. I still do flat bench presses once a week but my main chest exercises are pushups, weighted dips, and dumbell flyes.

I have a few friends that have competed in power lifting events and now that they have retired have ongoing shoulder problems from bench pressing. Last year, my best friend(36 years old) tore a tendon in his chest when bench pressing 315 pounds for reps at a local gym. His left pectoral is moderately deformed from the injury and surgery.

By the way, I still do deadlifts power cleans, barbell rows and other heavy duty exercises but shy away from heavy bench pressing and never no decline presses.

34

BP activates 35% of bodies motor units…as well you can load it up much better, higher the load, greater impact on the nervous system, this topic was discussed extensively on the charliefrancis.com board if you care to go look over there. In fact it was during Ben Johnsons only major injury that he worked hard on his upper body and when he came back he ran record times over and over. Bench is the best neural stimulus as far as upper body movements.

35

I think the bench press can be bad on your shoulders but only if your benching with your shoulders flared throughout the whole movement, like most people in the gym do. Done the right way the bench is actually a pretty technical lift - just like the power clean or snatch. Do them wrong and you’ll have back and shoulder problems. Dave Tate has touched on this ( and he benches over 600) saying that when he benched the traditional way he had a lot of trouble too. That’s why if you bench with elbows tucked, shoulder blades pulled together, and bring the bar to your upper abs/lower chest instead of mid - chest you take the stress off the shoulder. I wonder how much that guy who said benching is bad can bench?

36

Boss - great job ripping off most everything Pavel has ever written. BTW - WHAT is the chinup THE upper body strength test for? certainly not for football combines, they rely on the bench press. I would venture to say that most would do well incorporating both presses and pulls for balance. Unlike most believe there is no one magic exercise.

37

Boss - and everyone else who may have been mislead by my post.

I was being sarcastic. I was also making fun of all of those obsessive compulsive no-nothing coaches who think that any type of movement that doesn’t exactly mirror a movement used in their particular sport is useless and not “functional.”

Let me give you an example. I personally love to ski, so naturally I train with that in mind. Now, I have been skiing several times, and I have yet to encounter a situation where I needed to bend down and pick up a heavy load off of the ground. Does that mean that deadlifting, which involves bending down and picking up a heavy load off of the ground is useless in training for skiing. OF COURSE NOT! Skiing demands total body strength with special emphasis on lower body strenght and power. Therefore, my workouts consist of squats in all their varieties (back, front, on one leg), Romanian DLs and regulatr DLs to further enhance lower body strength and to strengthen the hams to avoid the nasty quad-ham strength imbalance, bench press and overhead press, because the upper body should not be neglected, and of course power cleans and snatches to build power. The fact that you never see anyone DLing, benching, or power cleaning while going down the mountain on skis is beside the point. The purpose of these exercises is to build a general base of strength.

Guess I need to tone down the sarcasm.

38

And while I’m here:

Numba - Your explanation regarding the stimulus on the nervous system is one of the most intelligent things I have read about why the bench press is beneficial.

Matt Furey is a huge asshole who is only interested in selling his material on bodyweight training, which I hear is not worth the price. I don’t care about his achievements in the martial arts - the man has zero credibility with me.

39

You guys really think that the Bench Press has better carry over than say the Clean and Press?

If so I would have to vehemently disagree!

40

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You guys really think that the Bench Press has better carry over than say the Clean and Press?

If so I would have to vehemently disagree! [/quote]

If I had to only pick one exercise, then I guess the clean and press is ok, but I think the combination of deadlifts and the bench press is better than just the clean and press.

If I deadlifted and benched and got stonger in these lifts, by clean and press would go up. However, if I only clean and pressed, it would not equal a bigger deadlift and bench. That means with benches and deads you get a greater carry-over than with the clean and press.

I’m not dissing the clean and press, I really like it. So, why not do both. Neither is useless.