BBB Tailoring

Training 5/3/1
1

Hey Jim (apologies in advance for the formatting…)

Almost finished my 1st cycle of 5/3/1, absolutely loving it and have made some decent progress thus far!

I’ve been reading a lot of Beyond 5/3/1 and incorporating Joker Sets and First Set Last into my workouts for additional volume. I currently run this variation of the 5/3/1 and BBB template and ONLY do Jokers when I hit a new PR AND I’m feeling it (as per the program):

5/3/1 Press (w/ 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps FSL)
BBB 5x10 Bench
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Deadlift (w/ 1 AMRAP FSL)
BBB 5x10 Squat
Abs

5/3/1 Bench (w/ 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps FSL)
BBB 5x10 Press
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Squat (w/ 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps FSL)
BBB 5x10 Deadlift
Abs

My current training maxes are in kilos (sorry) (yeah, maybe not amazingly high to some people, but I’ve progressed on 5/3/1 more in three weeks than any other program I’ve done, I also enjoy it far better)

Squat: 99.736kg
Bench: 68.24kg
Press: 52.493kg
Deadlift: 146.979kg

Anyway, I was wondering your thoughts on say alternating the BBB variations within a cycle rather than blocks of weeks? So 5’s week I might do the regular 5x10 @ 50% of TM, then the next week do 5x5 @ 80% of TM, then on 3’s week do 3x5 @ 90% of TM? Just for some variation, or could it work better in reverse, eg 3x5 @ 90% on 5’s week, etc?

I’m thinking that given my less than stellar lifts (although always improving and setting PR’s) and experience level (1 year of training) that there is still room to work heavier and not be so “Boring” with BBB. Doing 5x10 with 35kg (soon to be 37.5kg next week on a new cycle!) on Bench is pretty damn easy, surely BBB is going to work better at 50% of training max when your training max for bench is BW or over? Also, I’ve noticed others who run BBB inevitably end up switching out the BBB Deadlift for another exercise. I’d personally rather do BBB Deadlift than substitute it for Good Mornings or something. My thinking is that doing 5x10 once per cycle on Deadlift rather than three times could be more efficient for recovery purposes? With that in mind, how does this look?

WK 1

5/3/1 Press
BBB 5x10 Bench
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Deadlift
BBB 5x10 Squat
Abs

5/3/1 Bench
BBB 5x10 Press
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Squat
BBB 5x10 Deadlift
Abs

WK2

5/3/1 Press
BBB 5x5 Bench
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Deadlift
BBB 5x5 Squat
Abs

5/3/1 Bench
BBB 5x5 Press
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Squat
BBB 5x5 Deadlift
Abs

WK3

5/3/1 Press
BBB 5x3 Bench
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Deadlift
BBB 5x3 Squat
Abs

5/3/1 Bench
BBB 5x3 Press
5x10 Lats
3x10 Bis
3x10 Tris

5/3/1 Squat
BBB 5x3 Deadlift
Abs

Repeat, deaload at WK7.

2

You do BBB and FSL in same session?

This is clearly not in the book and has been asked/shot down many times. Do not do this.
As far as your new program - if you feel it works, by all means. But I wouldn’t do it. Of recommend it. BBB is not for a beginner. Or is changing the program.

BBB Beefcake or Vanilla BBB?
3

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
You do BBB and FSL in same session?[/quote]

Not on the same lift. I do FSL on the 5/3/1 lift only and BBB only on the other. For example, Today was 5/3/1 Bench and then BBB Military Press.

What would you suggest? I came over to 5/3/1 because I simply couldn’t make progress on LP programs like SS and TM. Not to mention the lack of progress was beating me down and I had no motivation or desire to train that way.

I’m finding myself in this frustrating juncture where stuff either doesn’t work, or is not suitable appropriate for me (BBB apparently now, even though it seems fine and I’m craving more variety from it).

Thanks for any and all advice.

4

Just do the program as written for 6 months - then see how you feel

5

[quote]I_Bleed_Green wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
You do BBB and FSL in same session?[/quote]

Not on the same lift. I do FSL on the 5/3/1 lift only and BBB only on the other. For example, Today was 5/3/1 Bench and then BBB Military Press.

What would you suggest? I came over to 5/3/1 because I simply couldn’t make progress on LP programs like SS and TM. Not to mention the lack of progress was beating me down and I had no motivation or desire to train that way.

I’m finding myself in this frustrating juncture where stuff either doesn’t work, or is not suitable appropriate for me (BBB apparently now, even though it seems fine and I’m craving more variety from it).

Thanks for any and all advice.
[/quote]

Don’t blame the programs. They work.

Follow he program as written for at least 6 months. Changes don’t happen in a week.
Learn patience. Craving more is a sign of impatience. You are not getting the results, hence, you crave more.

Dial in your diet. Eat to succeed.

You will look at this in 5 years and laugh at yourself.

In the meantime, enjoy the ride.

6

I_bleed_green,

I’m on a similar position as you. I have been training for around a year now, started with Strong Lifts and just got tired of it and I thought it wasn’t sustainable on the long run, so I after 6 - 7 months training I switched to 5/3/1 after a friend recommended me. Even my lifts are a very similar pace as yours.

I joined the Jim Wendler forum at his home page, asked A LOT of stupid and nonsensical questions -thank GOD those were deleted when the forum was hacked- and Jim was kind enough of answering all of them, I stayed there for almost 6 months until I didn’t had enough money to be in there.

Anyways, I did a lot of things wrong when I started. First off I lost massive weight when I didn’t needed it to -84 kg to 67 in 3 months- by having a stupid diet. Make sure you don’t do that mistake. I’m struggling to gain some quality weight right now due to that mistake.

Second, don’t get obsessed with doing A LOT of workouts, the other day at the gym while I was doing lower body workout of the 3 months BBB challenge -squat 5/3/1, DL 5x10, HLG 5x10, bye- a guy was doing back, I counted at least 7 exercises for his back before I leaved. I bet you have seen similar situations and think “man…I must be doing wrong, they are doing so many exercises and I’m not doing enough”. You are doing more than ENOUGH with 5/3/1 and some volume training. How many of those “I’m doing 9 exercises for leg” are working on it’s 65%, 70%, 80% of their TM?.

If you still need the crave for doing 5 - 6 exercises per session. Check out the Jim Wendler 5/3/1 bodybuilding variation. I did it for a cycle and it was good.

If not, I see you have a similar program to the BBB 3 month challenge. Try to do the 6 week challenge -50% first two weeks, 60% next two weeks, 70% next two weeks-, it’s what I’m currently on and it’s great. Your body really feels it. After that you could do 5x5 with 80% for another 6 weeks and then come back to another 6 week challenge or move forward to the 5x3 with 90% 6 weeks and then 5x1 with your TM. Hell, you could do the BBB 13 week challenge -50% 2 weeks, 60% another two, etc- which is the condensed version of what I just said. You could do GVT 10X10, FSL, Jokers, The rule of 50, Triumvirarte…All of them are volume work and you can just pick the one you want to, all of them will work. I’m not discovering nothing new, this is very well exposed by Wendler on Beyond 5/3/1. Make sure you buy that book.

I know you wanna be big but, this takes time, it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon, hell, no, it’s not a marathon is a triple marathon with an iron man in the middle. And if it was just picking a good diet, a good program and repeat it for 3 months everybody would be HUGE. This WILL take years, with it’s up and downs, I haven’t being going consistenly to the gym for almost 2 months now, this can and will happen to anybody of us.

Do yourself a favour, don’t get obsessed, don’t get complicated. Pick ANY 5/3/1 routine that fits your needs, lifestyle and goals. Train whenever life gives you the opportunity to do it, eat as good as you can and sleep as good as you can and just keep doing it for years. As IamLEWIS said, 5 years from now, you will look at this and laugh.

7

Yeah, everybody is right of course…

So just stick with 5/3/1 as it is (or what I’ve been doing, and don’t bother making any changes) and be patient?

8

Arrgh, I feel like a fool now. Apologies for my impatience!

9

Just do the basic program and add in the FSL work.
For the squats and pulls - nothing over 5 reps (FSL). For upper body, you can do some higher reps (5-8).

Make sure to you have jumps in there prior to each workout.
Make sure you do agile 8 before each workout and 2 times a day.
Make sure you have some kind of conditioning work. And a conditioning goal.
Be sure to have a consistent eating plan you can adhere to.
Only assistance I recommend other than Dumb Strength work: Wendler Six.

Can’t get much simpler than that.

10

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Just do the basic program and add in the FSL work.
For the squats and pulls - nothing over 5 reps (FSL). For upper body, you can do some higher reps (5-8).

Make sure to you have jumps in there prior to each workout.
Make sure you do agile 8 before each workout and 2 times a day.
Make sure you have some kind of conditioning work. And a conditioning goal.
Be sure to have a consistent eating plan you can adhere to.
Only assistance I recommend other than Dumb Strength work: Wendler Six.

Can’t get much simpler than that. [/quote]

Thanks for the reply Jim, honestly, I seem to have misinterpreted how FSL works!

I also seem to have skipped the Simplest Strength template chapter which seems ideal for my goals and not crazy stupid like I’ve apparently been doing! And I get to Front Squat again!

11

Also, what’s the “Wendler Six”, I’ve been hunting both 5/3/1 and Beyond for reference to it!

Cheers!

12

Chins (various grips), dips, rows (various implements), ab work (various kinds), back raises, curls.

Wendler Six and Dumb Strength Work isn’t in the books. Jim’s posted a lot of info on his personal forum (paid membership). If you want to delve deeper It’s worth checking out.

13

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Just do the basic program and add in the FSL work.
For the squats and pulls - nothing over 5 reps (FSL). For upper body, you can do some higher reps (5-8).

Make sure to you have jumps in there prior to each workout.
Make sure you do agile 8 before each workout and 2 times a day.
Make sure you have some kind of conditioning work. And a conditioning goal.
Be sure to have a consistent eating plan you can adhere to.
Only assistance I recommend other than Dumb Strength work: Wendler Six.

Can’t get much simpler than that. [/quote]

Thanks Jim, my lifts are similar to the OP and this is just what I was looking for. I’ll do the basic layout with 3-5 sets of FSL as you suggest here and in Beyond. Cheers

14

Jim,

Now that we are here. Why FSL and not BBB for beginners?

15

[quote]leviathan85 wrote:
Jim,

Now that we are here. Why FSL and not BBB for beginners?[/quote]

Beginners do not need to repeated sets of 10 reps, especially fatigued. Form always gets fucked up.
It’s best to keep the repeated sets in the 5 rep range - this is all in the beyond book.