Ive been following starting strength 5x5 for a while now.
It has helped me alot when it comes to calming down and not over thinking things.
Im looking for a set of guiding principles and maybe a basic hypertrophy split that keeps things simple in the same fashion.
Most of the programs I’ve read have drastically different takes on similar foundations…however its hard to know what is necessary and what is not, and I’m a novice when it comes to this whole area.
So I was hoping that someone could link me to an article (i know its out there - just havent found it) which strips away all the faddish and very specific info to leave the bare bones principles and examples.
Im 220 pounds at 6 foot 1 with 14-18% BF. I have a good base amount of muscle, so advice to lift big and concentrate on the money exercises wont help me.
Also my diet has seen me gain weight and strength quite rapidly, and I will continue with starting strength until 1 1/2 bodyweight squats (10 weeks away)
I am instead looking for an insight into what to do in conjunction with the big lifts in order to put on a little more overall size.
Having just posted this I came across a couple of relevant articles lol.
You just have to be a bit creative with your search wording.
I also realized I should have posted this in the beginners section.
What I hear a lot is that many do this:
strength train to a decent base strength level (1-2 x bodyweight squats)
Then transition into 1-3 ‘big’ lifts at the start of your session, followed by some less strenuous smaller work to bring the volume up for more hypertrophy
thats the kind of nice simple parameter I like the sound of.
Usually, when I hear 5X5 I assume you’re working up to 1 heavy set of 5 and every previous set was a warm-up. If you’ve been doing this and working up to a 5RM and it’s still working, then you should keep on with that.
In order to get more size, try adding in a back off set of higher reps after you hit your heavy 5RM. So, if you’re still doing
Day 1:
Squat
Press
Deadlift or Power CLean
Day 2:
Squat
Bench Press
Back Extensions
Chins
You could get some more blood moving by doing
Day 1:
Squat 5 then Leg Press 20
Press 5 then Dumbbell Press 12
Deadlift 5 then Romanian Deadlift 15
Barbell Curls 1 Rest-Pause set
Rope Pushdowns 1 Rest-Pause set
Abs
Day 2:
Squat 5 then Lunge 20
Bench 5 then Incline Bench 12
T-Bar Row 5 then Cable Row 12
Chin-ups for 1 set of Max Reps
Dips 1 set of Max Reps
Abs
If you feel that you’re ready to move up to working out 4 times a week then I highly recommend creating some sort of Upper-Lower Split.
[quote]chutec wrote:
thanks fighting squat thats just the kind of pointer i was looking for.
I know it seems obvious, but it helps to have others explain.
Ill continue my current strength only routine until I hit 1 1/2 body weight on my squat.
I will then use this style of program as a transition phase and will use it until I feel a slow down in gains then move onto a split.
so for the ‘volume’ work after each exercise, I presume its 5x5 then how many sets of volume work? 1?[/quote]
With what I suggested you’ll work up to 1 heavy set of 5 with 4 warm-ups sets. Then you’ll drop the weight down or switch exercises and do 1 ‘volume’ set.
If your gaining weight easily and getting stronger, then dont change much. If anything raise the volume, or add some assistance exercises, or some cardio.
But why if your already gaining, would you be looking for a hypertrophy program?
im continuing my current program for another 6 weeks, im fairly sure by the end of that period my gains will slow as my weight progressions inevitably stalls (I am starting to struggle as it is!)
secondly,
with my current program im seeing a lot of lower body and core/waist increases. Thats great and all, but ive always had disproportionate legs and a big waist, so im looking to drop 1 of my 3 squat sessions a week and implement some assistance work for all other areas.
thirdly,
ive always had a problem with fat gain, and it will keep my bulk going through the fat gain if I can keep things fresh, which means cycling through strength—>hypertrophy—>strength
and maybe throwing in some gimmicking plateau buster workouts in the transitions.
i went to the intermediate and advanced versions of the 5x5 there and that will help me alter my program when progressions gets unrealistic 3 times a week !
heres another question after reading the link above.
Today I hit 102.5 kg for 5 sets of 5 on the squat, with my aim being 5x5 at 130 kg by the end of this phase.
Should I just continue to progress by 2.5 each session (so 7.5 kg total each week) until I hit my target?
I was needing 1-2 mins rest between sets leading up to 100kg.
I now need 2-3 mins
by the time im nearing 130kg I will probably need 5 mins between sets.
My plan is to simply keep going up without deload or rest weeks/sessions.
so if I hit every weight (presumably taking 5 mins rest between sets) I will be at target lifting weight in a month or so.
However this lift will be at the end of my 9th week of consecutive progressions every session.
So would it serve me better or be more realistic to maybe take a rest week (with active recovery - maybe two lighter sessions) for week 7, and then beging again fresh at maybe 5kg lower than pre-rest week?
im continuing my current program for another 6 weeks, im fairly sure by the end of that period my gains will slow as my weight progressions inevitably stalls (I am starting to struggle as it is!)
secondly,
with my current program im seeing a lot of lower body and core/waist increases. Thats great and all, but ive always had disproportionate legs and a big waist, so im looking to drop 1 of my 3 squat sessions a week and implement some assistance work for all other areas.
thirdly,
ive always had a problem with fat gain, and it will keep my bulk going through the fat gain if I can keep things fresh, which means cycling through strength—>hypertrophy—>strength
and maybe throwing in some gimmicking plateau buster workouts in the transitions.[/quote]
You were referring to someone else, not me right?
I’d do 4 weeks, then a week off then 4 weeks again. Totals up to 9 with a week layoff to recover. I’d need to actually be very lazy that 5th week, not just a de-load but stay out of the gym.
Squat 5 then Leg Press 20
Press 5 then Dumbbell Press 12
Deadlift 5 then Romanian Deadlift 15
Barbell Curls 1 Rest-Pause set
Rope Pushdowns 1 Rest-Pause set
Abs
You should do
Deadlift 5 then Romanian Deadlift 15
Press 5 then Dumbbell Press 12
FRONT Squat 5 then Leg Press 20
Barbell Curl 1 Rest-Pause set
Rope Pushdowns 1 Rest-Pause set
Abs
This way you can maximize the weights you use on Deadlifts/Power Cleans.
[quote]chutec wrote:
scott my only hesitation is that front squats kill me. I know im not getting them right.
is there a sub for that in there?
Thanks, you are providing me with more than I hoped for ;][/quote]
Well you’re not gonna be able to squat your best if you’ve just done Deadlifts and RDLs. But if you always did front squats after deadlifts, that might be better than dropping your normal squat poundages. Might save the ego if you get where I’m coming from. That, and from personal experience Front Squats and Deads don’t interfer with eachother nearly as much as Squats and Deads and are a lot easier for me to do in the same workout and still get high numbers in both lifts.
You could try doing Step-ups instead. Yeah, I like that Step-ups would be a good substitute and wouldn’t suffer too much from doing heavy deads beforehand.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Are you using 5X5 with starting strength?
Usually, when I hear 5X5 I assume you’re working up to 1 heavy set of 5 and every previous set was a warm-up. If you’ve been doing this and working up to a 5RM and it’s still working, then you should keep on with that.
In order to get more size, try adding in a back off set of higher reps after you hit your heavy 5RM. So, if you’re still doing
Day 1:
Squat
Press
Deadlift or Power CLean
Day 2:
Squat
Bench Press
Back Extensions
Chins
You could get some more blood moving by doing
Day 1:
Squat 5 then Leg Press 20
Press 5 then Dumbbell Press 12
Deadlift 5 then Romanian Deadlift 15
Barbell Curls 1 Rest-Pause set
Rope Pushdowns 1 Rest-Pause set
Abs
Day 2:
Squat 5 then Lunge 20
Bench 5 then Incline Bench 12
T-Bar Row 5 then Cable Row 12
Chin-ups for 1 set of Max Reps
Dips 1 set of Max Reps
Abs
If you feel that you’re ready to move up to working out 4 times a week then I highly recommend creating some sort of Upper-Lower Split. [/quote]
Do you honestly beleive that less than 50 reps per muscle group in the entire workout is a good hypertropthy program? What kind of bench press should he be doing? Elbows out bodybuilding style or elbows in powerlifting style? What about shoulder work? You think one set of dips and one set of curls is going to build his arms up? What about his traps and calfs?
Do you honestly beleive that less than 50 reps per muscle group in the entire workout is a good hypertropthy program? What kind of bench press should he be doing? Elbows out bodybuilding style or elbows in powerlifting style? What about shoulder work? You think one set of dips and one set of curls is going to build his arms up? What about his traps and calfs?
[/quote]
instead of pointing out flaws, offer solutions
read what I asked for in my post, and then see if scott delivered. (the clue is in my request for the basics, dont give a crap about what my elbow bench style should be, these are details that I can work in later)
the idea was to add in the simpler elements of bodybuilding to a predominantly strength based program, in order to see a little more size gain.
Do you honestly beleive that less than 50 reps per muscle group in the entire workout is a good hypertropthy program? What kind of bench press should he be doing? Elbows out bodybuilding style or elbows in powerlifting style? What about shoulder work? You think one set of dips and one set of curls is going to build his arms up? What about his traps and calfs?
[/quote]
I don’t know if you’re mocking me for my usual over analysis of stuff or not.