Ballet - Achieving Monstrous Ankle Strength

Training
21

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:
An awkward Arnold in grand plie in first position?? Really? You think this photo is applicable here?[/quote]

I don’t think it’s any more or less applicable than asking about how to build ankle strength for ballet from a bunch of people who have no ballet experience. Especially when you have access to the advice, knowledge and experience of people who DO have ballet experience.

If I remember correctly, PowerPuff does ballet, and she might be the only person on this site who can offer any advice. Which, if I were to guess, is going to come back to “do what your instructor says”.
[/quote]

This is a “releve”:

Please show me where in the world at ALL does that exercise (either turned in or turned out) CEASE being a calf raise?

Power cleans are not a movement that is identical to the movement of every single sport professional that adopts such an exercise-- yet it certainly is FUNCTIONAL enough to aid in the explosive movement(s) of many sports players such as Usain Bolt.

You mean to tell me, that heavy calf raises can’t do the same here, when they are virtually identical?

[/quote]

No, I mean to tell you that strength isn’t really the limiting factor.

22

Those photos and that video look so painful. The girl in the video has more mobility in her feet than I have in my hands.

23

[quote]achilles007 wrote:
An awkward Arnold in grand plie in first position?? Really? You think this photo is applicable here?[/quote]
Seemed appropriate only insomuch as Arnold was known to use ballet techniques to improve his posing. Lighten up.

True. Also, heavy calf raises =/= unweighted calf raises with extreme toe extension. Though I do occasionally do what I call an “exaggerated farmer’s walk” for a little more calf work, basically deliberately over-emphasizing each step similar to the foot/toe position you’re talking about.

The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.

To refer back to your initial post:

Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles. I kinda understand your point in wanting to “update” the system with regard to strength training, but every sport does have unique demands.

For example, Olympic lifters and some track and field throwers will avoid chest training/horizontal pressing work in order to maintain shoulder flexibility. With ballet dancers, who obviously have a high volume of leg/lower leg work during classes/practices, I’d most likely similarly consider avoiding more direct lower leg work when weight training.

With all that said, you might be able to get some useful info here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/the_ankle_paradox_building_indestructible_ankles

And like Rez mentioned, I believe Powerpuff is a ballet dancer. Maybe track down her log and pick her brain.

P.S. [quote]Does anyone think the conclusion I am coming to is a flawed one?[/quote]
Remember that you literally asked this, you just don’t like any of the answers.

24

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:
An awkward Arnold in grand plie in first position?? Really? You think this photo is applicable here?[/quote]

I don’t think it’s any more or less applicable than asking about how to build ankle strength for ballet from a bunch of people who have no ballet experience. Especially when you have access to the advice, knowledge and experience of people who DO have ballet experience.

If I remember correctly, PowerPuff does ballet, and she might be the only person on this site who can offer any advice. Which, if I were to guess, is going to come back to “do what your instructor says”.
[/quote]

This is a “releve”:

Please show me where in the world at ALL does that exercise (either turned in or turned out) CEASE being a calf raise?

Power cleans are not a movement that is identical to the movement of every single sport professional that adopts such an exercise-- yet it certainly is FUNCTIONAL enough to aid in the explosive movement(s) of many sports players such as Usain Bolt.

You mean to tell me, that heavy calf raises can’t do the same here, when they are virtually identical?

[/quote]

No, I mean to tell you that strength isn’t really the limiting factor.[/quote]

Mobility was already mentioned and agreed upon. So besides mobility, if strength isn’t the limiting factor what else could it be?

Physiotherapist Lisa Howell:

25

Very true! Heavy calf raises do not equal unweighted calf raises with extreme toe extension.

But the key to getting the toe extension lies in the calf raise itself, which is where the strength from the heavy calf raise could come in. This is the reason why ballet dancers practice releves and eleves over and over again. And intensify it right before they go en pointe as they will spend the whole class period in a calf raise position.

In the picture. Foot to the left-most part of the screen must be obtained. Sufficient strength from that transfers over into the toes such as in the video I attached above, achieving the foot in the center. With training in the actual pointe class, however, is when foot at the right side, with optimum ankle mobility is achievable.
The problem is… the magic rub lies in the fact that the foot even at the left-most part of the picture is difficult to obtain for the majority of us. It takes a helluva a lot of strength just to get to THAT point. And THAT is the point that I am emphasizing that heavy calf raises should be able to get someone to much quicker, than bodyweight exercises.

Well… at least we agree on the need to “update” such an archaic way of gaining strength!

Calisthenics was nice… a long time ago. As a previous athlete-- I have seen some huge strength gains during the football off-season, to not consider doing the same here.

Why not?

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:
An awkward Arnold in grand plie in first position?? Really? You think this photo is applicable here?[/quote]
Seemed appropriate only insomuch as Arnold was known to use ballet techniques to improve his posing. Lighten up.

True. Also, heavy calf raises =/= unweighted calf raises with extreme toe extension. Though I do occasionally do what I call an “exaggerated farmer’s walk” for a little more calf work, basically deliberately over-emphasizing each step similar to the foot/toe position you’re talking about.

The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.

To refer back to your initial post:

Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles. I kinda understand your point in wanting to “update” the system with regard to strength training, but every sport does have unique demands.

For example, Olympic lifters and some track and field throwers will avoid chest training/horizontal pressing work in order to maintain shoulder flexibility. With ballet dancers, who obviously have a high volume of leg/lower leg work during classes/practices, I’d most likely similarly consider avoiding more direct lower leg work when weight training.

With all that said, you might be able to get some useful info here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/the_ankle_paradox_building_indestructible_ankles

And like Rez mentioned, I believe Powerpuff is a ballet dancer. Maybe track down her log and pick her brain.

P.S. [quote]Does anyone think the conclusion I am coming to is a flawed one?[/quote]
Remember that you literally asked this, you just don’t like any of the answers.[/quote]

Agreed on the aspect of over-training. Unfortunately adults do not get the same quality training as children. Children get 5-6 classes a week for 1.5 hours a day. This is the gold standard! Adults, however, are lucky to find a studio that accepts them. And when they do, we only get–such as in my case-- TWICE a week for only 1 hour.

TWICE a WEEK!! That is way too much time in between classes to be sitting around and not doing anything… There isn’t a single human activity on this planet that I know of wherein twice a week for one hour per session would make anyone competent in anything…

No wonder they gave me a time range of 4 years. There is no excuse for ballet in denying weight resistance training here. I’m thinking… 5 days a week… heavy standing calf raises… 4 sets by 12 reps??? Yes or No??

I’m 180 lbs. I guess I’ll start off at 135 and increase from there?

26

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
True. Also, heavy calf raises =/= unweighted calf raises with extreme toe extension. Though I do occasionally do what I call an “exaggerated farmer’s walk” for a little more calf work, basically deliberately over-emphasizing each step similar to the foot/toe position you’re talking about.
[/quote]

CC, t h x for this. Genius modification

27

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.[/quote]

It actually has more to do with the way ballet dancers point their feet, in which the theraband wraps around the front end of their toes compressing it the back of the ankle and impinging the achilles tendon.

^^This is why the ballet world needs to be “updated”. Seriously. Achilles Tendonitis is no joke.
This isn’t something that kids made up as an on the fly exercise. This is something that their teachers TOLD them to purchase and DO every week

Notice what the PhysioTherapist recommends as a replacement? Seated eleves with the legs extended!!

[quote]Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles.
[/quote]

C’mon. Since when at all-- ever in any athletic event-- does bodyweight exercises beat out weight resistance in terms of strength gained much more efficiently?

Why has the WHOLE SPORTS WORLD turned to weights, when calisthenics is arguably much older and cheaper and can be done anywhere?

I think we all know the answer to this. Strength gains made via weights will be better than all the bodyweight pushups in the world. Even DOUBLE so for the lower extremities of the lower human body which were made for constant punishment of carrying the whole human body.

I understand wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt. But the dance world being scared of weights is just dumb.

How much weight do you think I should start with? I only weigh 180 lbs.

28

I’ll ask my mother what she thinks about all this. I’d call he right now but she’s teaching ballet class at the moment. One thing I think I do know from being around her teaching all these years is that ballet can really fuck with your body and that some bodies are more naturally built to withstand the punishment than others.

If it were me and I wanted to weight train for ballet, it would be mostly Oly lifts and more particularly the snatch. You need to be strong and have a good vert but adding upper-body mass seems like it would be counterproductive. Oly lifts also seem like they would carry over to tossing the chicks up in the air and help with explosiveness.

29

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I’ll ask my mother what she thinks about all this. I’d call he right now but she’s teaching ballet class at the moment. One thing I think I do know from being around her teaching all these years is that ballet can really fuck with your body and that some bodies are more naturally built to withstand the punishment than others.

If it were me and I wanted to weight train for ballet, it would be mostly Oly lifts and more particularly the snatch. You need to be strong and have a good vert but adding upper-body mass seems like it would be counterproductive. Oly lifts also seem like they would carry over to tossing the chicks up in the air and help with explosiveness. [/quote]

Very insightful post.

Excellent analysis on the counterproductivity of putting on mass the upper body.

Merely gaining strength isn’t nearly sufficient enough if one keeps packing on pounds. It has to be strength RELATIVE to one’s body weight. Arnold in the picture may be very strong in his ankles-- but if Arnold is 260 lbs., then Arnold will not get as high on the front of his metatarsals as a 120 lb. Arnold.

As you stated the upper body is mainly only good for lifting ballerinas (partnering), and aesthetics. I’m guessing this is why for women-- the stick thin model is to be preferred as the strength needed wouldn’t be as much as for those with weight problems.

+1 for Olympic lifts necessary for the male ballet dancer.

Fortunately for me, though-- I’m actually learning the girl’s role instead (Les Trockadero):

Partly because I cannot stand jumping, or being used as a supportive prop.
Yes, I do know that females jump to but nowhere near the same amount of emphasis as it is with the guys.

That’s really cool that you have a parent that is a dance teacher. Does she teach pre-pointe class? The thing that really clicked for me was when I watched a pre pointe class and noticed that all they did was releves/eleves in dfferent positions at the barre and at the center.

30

Mobility of course plays a factor, but most people-- even those who go en pointe don’t even reach their best mobility before going on pointe.:
AllyOlsen-- en pointe for 6 years! For ankle range is normal by most standards and “bad” by ballet standards

But yet:

Hmmm… No way. Could it be:

Yet a clear example of bad static-active flexibility but strong ankles/lower legs.

The 3-4 years people claim it takes to finally get to pointe, I seriously doubt is spent on ankle flexibility. Swimmers have been shown to increase theirs within a year using the FINIS board. Flexibility of the leg muscles is easy as cake to obtain compared to gaining strength of the stubborn lower legs.

Regarding just how stubborn the calf and lower leg muscles are, along with the fact that girls in their pre-pointe and pointe classes spend all their time at the barre doing releves and eleves in different position tells me that the emphasis of 3-4 years is on strength. Strength and mobility-- it can be argued-- do go hand-in-hand of course.

What do you guys think?

31

Walks, even gentle hikes in Five fingers/minimalist shoes might help

32

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Walks, even gentle hikes in Five fingers/minimalist shoes might help[/quote]

Excellent advice!!

Is it because rigid tennis shoes would tend to hinder movement of the ankle?

Excellent!

33

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.[/quote]

It actually has more to do with the way ballet dancers point their feet, in which the theraband wraps around the front end of their toes compressing it the back of the ankle and impinging the achilles tendon.

^^This is why the ballet world needs to be “updated”. Seriously. Achilles Tendonitis is no joke.
This isn’t something that kids made up as an on the fly exercise. This is something that their teachers TOLD them to purchase and DO every week

Notice what the PhysioTherapist recommends as a replacement? Seated eleves with the legs extended!!

[quote]Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles.
[/quote]

C’mon. Since when at all-- ever in any athletic event-- does bodyweight exercises beat out weight resistance in terms of strength gained much more efficiently?

Why has the WHOLE SPORTS WORLD turned to weights, when calisthenics is arguably much older and cheaper and can be done anywhere?

I think we all know the answer to this. Strength gains made via weights will be better than all the bodyweight pushups in the world. Even DOUBLE so for the lower extremities of the lower human body which were made for constant punishment of carrying the whole human body.

I understand wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt. But the dance world being scared of weights is just dumb.

How much weight do you think I should start with? I only weigh 180 lbs.[/quote]

You aren’t listening to everyone who says to just listen to your instructor, so just pick whatever you want to do for your exercises.

34

[quote]nkklllll wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.[/quote]

It actually has more to do with the way ballet dancers point their feet, in which the theraband wraps around the front end of their toes compressing it the back of the ankle and impinging the achilles tendon.

^^This is why the ballet world needs to be “updated”. Seriously. Achilles Tendonitis is no joke.
This isn’t something that kids made up as an on the fly exercise. This is something that their teachers TOLD them to purchase and DO every week

Notice what the PhysioTherapist recommends as a replacement? Seated eleves with the legs extended!!

[quote]Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles.
[/quote]

C’mon. Since when at all-- ever in any athletic event-- does bodyweight exercises beat out weight resistance in terms of strength gained much more efficiently?

Why has the WHOLE SPORTS WORLD turned to weights, when calisthenics is arguably much older and cheaper and can be done anywhere?

I think we all know the answer to this. Strength gains made via weights will be better than all the bodyweight pushups in the world. Even DOUBLE so for the lower extremities of the lower human body which were made for constant punishment of carrying the whole human body.

I understand wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt. But the dance world being scared of weights is just dumb.

How much weight do you think I should start with? I only weigh 180 lbs.[/quote]

You aren’t listening to everyone who says to just listen to your instructor, so just pick whatever you want to do for your exercises.[/quote]

1.) How many times must I recite that I have already went to the ballet instructor and was recommended the theraband exercises in which it almost resulted in onset achilles tendonitis? Hell, you even QUOTED the very damn post showcasing the videos of the physiotherapist demonstrating the ankle impingement that happens (and happened to me also btw) as a result of said exercise!! Ballet teachers are like Kung Fu “masters”. They are caught up in an archaic method of teaching that refuses to update themselves on current information. Only to have half of their students limping around with severe injuries as a result of their absent-mindedness.

2.) If it were a case of me not listening-- then please do explain away the last page of me directly responding to every single comment posted on this thread? And then, explain why none of the very disparaging nay-sayers I posted to never came back to defend their (as in the very first post of the thread) poorly thought-out, and emotional propositions (“arrogant newb”)?

Why didn’t any of them come back and show me where I am wrong?

Someone mentioned that “balance” could be the issue with going up en pointe, but said poster forgot that “balance” doesn’t factor in when you are doing eleves and releves at the barre. I mentioned strength and several mentioned mobility.

I’ve laid my theory down for strength, where are the arguments for mobility? Seeing as how you apparently didn’t bother to read the thread properly the first time through, you probably haven’t a clue as to what I’m even talking about, do you?

35

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]nkklllll wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.[/quote]

It actually has more to do with the way ballet dancers point their feet, in which the theraband wraps around the front end of their toes compressing it the back of the ankle and impinging the achilles tendon.

^^This is why the ballet world needs to be “updated”. Seriously. Achilles Tendonitis is no joke.
This isn’t something that kids made up as an on the fly exercise. This is something that their teachers TOLD them to purchase and DO every week

Notice what the PhysioTherapist recommends as a replacement? Seated eleves with the legs extended!!

[quote]Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles.
[/quote]

C’mon. Since when at all-- ever in any athletic event-- does bodyweight exercises beat out weight resistance in terms of strength gained much more efficiently?

Why has the WHOLE SPORTS WORLD turned to weights, when calisthenics is arguably much older and cheaper and can be done anywhere?

I think we all know the answer to this. Strength gains made via weights will be better than all the bodyweight pushups in the world. Even DOUBLE so for the lower extremities of the lower human body which were made for constant punishment of carrying the whole human body.

I understand wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt. But the dance world being scared of weights is just dumb.

How much weight do you think I should start with? I only weigh 180 lbs.[/quote]

You aren’t listening to everyone who says to just listen to your instructor, so just pick whatever you want to do for your exercises.[/quote]

1.) How many times must I recite that I have already went to the ballet instructor and was recommended the theraband exercises in which it almost resulted in onset achilles tendonitis? Hell, you even QUOTED the very damn post showcasing the videos of the physiotherapist demonstrating the ankle impingement that happens (and happened to me also btw) as a result of said exercise!! Ballet teachers are like Kung Fu “masters”. They are caught up in an archaic method of teaching that refuses to update themselves on current information. Only to have half of their students limping around with severe injuries as a result of their absent-mindedness.

2.) If it were a case of me not listening-- then please do explain away the last page of me directly responding to every single comment posted on this thread? And then, explain why none of the very disparaging nay-sayers I posted to never came back to defend their (as in the very first post of the thread) poorly thought-out, and emotional propositions (“arrogant newb”)?

Why didn’t any of them come back and show me where I am wrong?

Someone mentioned that “balance” could be the issue with going up en pointe, but said poster forgot that “balance” doesn’t factor in when you are doing eleves and releves at the barre. I mentioned strength and several mentioned mobility.

I’ve laid my theory down for strength, where are the arguments for mobility? Seeing as how you apparently didn’t bother to read the thread properly the first time through, you probably haven’t a clue as to what I’m even talking about, do you?[/quote]

No. I read it through. You haven’t “listened” in the sense that you don’t want any of the advice in regards to the ‘strength’ aspect. And the ones that have given you actual arguments about it not really mattering, or that you should listen to your coaches, you’ve apparently disregarded as well. If it is a case of tendons and support muscles then simply doing heavier exercises isn’t going to cut it. Take, for example, elite olympic weightlifters. Many of them squat every day and train 2x a day. However, it takes years to build up the tendon and ligament strength, that’s it, just the strength of the connective tissue in order to train that frequently.

You could even look to olympic weightlifting as another sport who some consider as using “archaic” training methods. The thing is, these methods are proven to work for people, and are proven to get people to set records and win medals.

Perhaps it is mobility. At which point you coach or teacher or whatever is probably right anyway. Its going to take a long time to get that amount of mobility in your ankles and feet.

And if you want to get more explosive, don’t worry about the olympic lifts, just do jumps (all different kinds) simply because you would be better spent practicing your various positions than you would learning how to properly execute a clean or snatch in order to get the most benefit out of it.

36

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]nkklllll wrote:

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
The kind of issues you mentioned, like tendonitis, would be more common with dramatically/inappropriately increased volume or intensity. Like going from zero calf work to 100 reps every day of the week.[/quote]

It actually has more to do with the way ballet dancers point their feet, in which the theraband wraps around the front end of their toes compressing it the back of the ankle and impinging the achilles tendon.

^^This is why the ballet world needs to be “updated”. Seriously. Achilles Tendonitis is no joke.
This isn’t something that kids made up as an on the fly exercise. This is something that their teachers TOLD them to purchase and DO every week

Notice what the PhysioTherapist recommends as a replacement? Seated eleves with the legs extended!!

[quote]Maybe that’s the timeframe he’s seen necessary to build strength, conditioning, and mobility in all the tiny-tiny support structures of the toes, feet, and ankles.
[/quote]

C’mon. Since when at all-- ever in any athletic event-- does bodyweight exercises beat out weight resistance in terms of strength gained much more efficiently?

Why has the WHOLE SPORTS WORLD turned to weights, when calisthenics is arguably much older and cheaper and can be done anywhere?

I think we all know the answer to this. Strength gains made via weights will be better than all the bodyweight pushups in the world. Even DOUBLE so for the lower extremities of the lower human body which were made for constant punishment of carrying the whole human body.

I understand wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt. But the dance world being scared of weights is just dumb.

How much weight do you think I should start with? I only weigh 180 lbs.[/quote]

You aren’t listening to everyone who says to just listen to your instructor, so just pick whatever you want to do for your exercises.[/quote]

1.) How many times must I recite that I have already went to the ballet instructor and was recommended the theraband exercises in which it almost resulted in onset achilles tendonitis? Hell, you even QUOTED the very damn post showcasing the videos of the physiotherapist demonstrating the ankle impingement that happens (and happened to me also btw) as a result of said exercise!! Ballet teachers are like Kung Fu “masters”. They are caught up in an archaic method of teaching that refuses to update themselves on current information. Only to have half of their students limping around with severe injuries as a result of their absent-mindedness.

2.) If it were a case of me not listening-- then please do explain away the last page of me directly responding to every single comment posted on this thread? And then, explain why none of the very disparaging nay-sayers I posted to never came back to defend their (as in the very first post of the thread) poorly thought-out, and emotional propositions (“arrogant newb”)?

Why didn’t any of them come back and show me where I am wrong?

Someone mentioned that “balance” could be the issue with going up en pointe, but said poster forgot that “balance” doesn’t factor in when you are doing eleves and releves at the barre. I mentioned strength and several mentioned mobility.

I’ve laid my theory down for strength, where are the arguments for mobility? Seeing as how you apparently didn’t bother to read the thread properly the first time through, you probably haven’t a clue as to what I’m even talking about, do you?[/quote]

No. I read it through. You haven’t “listened” in the sense that you don’t want any of the advice in regards to the ‘strength’ aspect. And the ones that have given you actual arguments about it not really mattering, or that you should listen to your coaches, you’ve apparently disregarded as well. If it is a case of tendons and support muscles then simply doing heavier exercises isn’t going to cut it. Take, for example, elite olympic weightlifters. Many of them squat every day and train 2x a day. However, it takes years to build up the tendon and ligament strength, that’s it, just the strength of the connective tissue in order to train that frequently.

You could even look to olympic weightlifting as another sport who some consider as using “archaic” training methods. The thing is, these methods are proven to work for people, and are proven to get people to set records and win medals.

Perhaps it is mobility. At which point you coach or teacher or whatever is probably right anyway. Its going to take a long time to get that amount of mobility in your ankles and feet.

And if you want to get more explosive, don’t worry about the olympic lifts, just do jumps (all different kinds) simply because you would be better spent practicing your various positions than you would learning how to properly execute a clean or snatch in order to get the most benefit out of it.

37

Also, it doesn’t seem like a strength question (at least not purely a calf strength question), because I don’t seem many gymnasts able to do this either. Male or female. And I would venture to say that at the elite level (and college) that gymnasts must be AT LEAST as strong as ballet dances. Possibly even stronger in terms of how much force they could exert at any given moment.

However, gymnasts also have notoriously tight ankles, at least in dorsiflexion. I don’t know if that has any bearing on their extension or not. And the also don’t spend as much time standing with their calves raised (eleve?) so the muscle in their foot might not be as developed.

38

[quote]achilles007 wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Walks, even gentle hikes in Five fingers/minimalist shoes might help[/quote]

Excellent advice!!

Is it because rigid tennis shoes would tend to hinder movement of the ankle?

Excellent![/quote]

Not because of hindering movement of the ankle, but because thick soled tennis shoes make it so that the support muscles in the foot and ankle don’t have to work as hard

39

If you’re dead set on doing weighted calf raises: I’d say start with 80% of what you can do for 12 while getting into that really fully extension. Do 4 sets. Then, a crap ton of bodyweight ones. Add weight gradually, but only so long as you can get to that maximum extension.

40

[quote]nkklllll wrote:
No. I read it through. You haven’t “listened” in the sense that you don’t want any of the advice in regards to the ‘strength’ aspect. And the ones that have given you actual arguments about it not really mattering, or that you should listen to your coaches, you’ve apparently disregarded as well. [/quote]

Okay. Let me slow things down a bit. According to the coaches, ballet books and physiotherapists there are two MAIN things that satisfy the criteria for pointework: ankle mobility/flexibility and ankle strength. :

  1. Ankle Mobility/Flexibility is done by exercises such as the “tendu” and virtually every exercise that involves pointing of the feet. The theraband exercise is what was designed to help this also.

Pointing of the feet is what strengthens the tiny intrinsic muscles of the foot and also helps to stretch the ankle in plantar flexion downwards. The name of this stretching is called static-active stretching. Any stretch where it is you using your own muscles to generate the movement. As opposed to splits(static-passive-- where the weight of your body forces the mobility) Mobility and Strength go hand-in-hand in this aspect.:

IS this something we all agree on?

2.) Ankle strength, although sort of achievable with the tendu, is mostly obtained in ballet through releves and eleves:

Agreed. But how is this an argument against the use of weights in cross-training again?

If it is mobility, then you are certainly right. But then, the question becomes mobility of what kind? Mobility in it’s static-active state or static-passive? AllyOlsen has bad static-active mobility, but enough static-passive mobility to enable her to stand en pointe.

No one at dance.net in the ballet section could answer these questions either. Hence why I came here. Thinking outside of the box is not allowed in ballet. Here-- with such a variety of weight-resistance forms and constant research on the latest way to gain strength is the total opposite.