They always do…
In my humble, and weak, opinion, overhead press numbers are like squat numbers.
You can’t trust them if they come from Westside Barbell?
They were done on a smith machine?
You just take your leg press and divide it by 2?
No matter how deep it was, it wasn’t deep enough?
Anyone with a higher number than mine is on steroids?
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Mike Boyle says that it’s a back exercise, not a shoulder exercise.
Insert expert here tells you it’s not a safe exercise, and not necessary to do.
Insert other expert here tells you the traditional OHP is stupid, stupid, stupid, and here are 20 different variations I’ve devised that are so, so, so much better.
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Man, you never really hear that name anymore, eh?
He was a really smart dude.
When I hear “press” or “overhead press” I think strict press, for what thats worth.
To me thats the baseline, then if you want to use your legs its a push press. I know strongman just has a “get this thing over your head” definition
But I guess this just proves the ambiguity of the terms
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If you disappear, at least we know what happened to you lol
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Hmmm, having a hard time picturing this as your back muscles are doing literally the opposite function to lifting something above your head. Does he mean for lock out strength for people who can poke their head through a good way, similar to Olympic lifters?
Was kinda, sorta joking: Mike Boyle has been around forever, notable for training hockey players. Became “famous” for proselytizing that the back squat is a back exercise, not a leg exercise. Mentor to Ben Bruno, Mr. BSS, and now personal trainer to some of the hottest females on the planet.
And, the strict OHP was taken out of the Olympics because athletes with insane lumbar mobility (or disregard for future ability to walk) would essentially lean back far enough to turn the OHP into a bench press.
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Almost three years in a fairly commercial gym and this is what I’ve seen, keep in mind that the average weight of those who train with intention is something between 155 and 190, the guys in the 200+ range are almost exclusively overweight and out of shape. This is what I’ve observed and knowing the numbers of some of the guys who train seriously:
-squat: hard to judge because a lot of people simply half rep. On average I’d say I see people mostly using 155 - 200 lbs for sets of 5 at whatever depth they feel comfortable to, which usually is between about 1/4 above parallel to just to parallel. Now that I wrote this, I realized I could count on one hand the number of people I’ve seen doing sets above 5 reps in all this time. Talking of 1RM, someone squatting 330lbs is definitely considered strong here, 395lbs is almost unseen and above 400 is pretty much god tier;
-deadlift: just too few people who actually lift from the ground instead of blocks or RDLs, usually people pulling from the ground are the most dedicated. I remember being asked by a few people in different occasions if I competed in powerlifting some time ago simply because I was doing a few reps at 300-350lbs, so I guess that’s what seen as strong-ish. Talking of 1RMs, 400 is definitely seen as strong, 440lbs is mighty (never seen anyone pulling 440 here tho);
-bench: same for the squat, difficult to say because people half rep a lot. I’d say a 220 bench 1RM is definitely seen as strong, just a few guys here can do as much. I’m a shitty bencher and I have yet to hit it, so I know that for me it would be good (it would help if I trained it instead of dropping it for months). Anything above 220 is really strong, we have a pair of guys who compete in bodybuilding and bench a lot, one of them does 285 for reps (6-8 IIRC, I spotted him) and I’ve seen the other incline benching 330lbs for reps (3-5) some days ago (<<< NOTE: these two guys are an exception to the average bodyweight here, being like 200+ but in shape of course). Most people do sets of 5-10 with 155 - 180lbs;
-press: talking about strict press since nobody does push presses except a few girls who do some kind of thruster from time to time, with something between 45 and 65lbs or so. As for the bench, I’m weak as fuck in the press and I’m still stronger than most of the guys here. Actually, my behind the neck (strict) press is stronger than what most guys use in the front press, and my best BTN press is something like 110x8. Suffice to say that I was legitimately impressed by a guy doing 5x5 with 130lbs and I’ve never seen someone pressing 1xbw. But it’s not a popular lift, except for those who train it on a regular basis, I mostly see guys randomly doing it after squats or benches like an afterthought and simply load up to 80-90lbs for a few shitty reps that don’t even end overhead, so it is what it is;
-chins: dunno, the world seems to be divided between those who can do chins and those who simply can’t, lol. I swear it’s one year or more that I see the same people trying to do a single chinup and screwing around with bands and shit without ever being able to do anything unassisted, so I really have no clue;
that’s what I’ve seen around here. Lackluster I know. Overall, I think most of the people HAVE the strength potential to get to higher (often much higher) standards, what they lack is some kind of barely decent program, the notion of progressive overload, they don’t put the effort or don’t track their progress in any kind of form, or simply don’t give a shit.
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Wasnt he the “back squatting is bad for you” guy for a while too?
just checked - yep
edit - I gues I should let the guy defend himself: https://www.t-nation.com/training/squat-good-exercise-gone-bad
@atlashrugged Good post. For commercial gyms, your point about “the average weight of those who train with intention” is especially insightful. And your 3 yrs of observation basically mirror my 20+ years.
I am 5’8", 170ish, no desire to go past 175. The average, not-so-average TN logger would be mildly surprised by how often I’ve gotten “you look big, do you lift/workout” comments. Granted, I’m old and have been around for a while, but still…
Funniest/most notable one was from about 20 yrs ago, when I probably weighed in the 150s tops. Post workout, with my shirt off in the locker room (I pump up pretty good), the dude who taught Tae Kwon Do at the gym (chubby Korean guy), loudly told me that I was the “biggest” (LOLLLL) Asian he’d ever seen, and that I should train bodybuilding with some trainer dude (an actual, 200+ lb dude, in decent shape) The trainer and I made awkward eye contact, but that was as far as it got…
Most recent was a young kid who saw me deadlifting 350+ish for reps (again, same deal as atlasshrugged), and approached me to ask me how to get “big & strong”.
For those who can’t believe what “average strength” is, just look at the world around you, and think of “average intelligence” standards, and then, mock weak people like me…I double dare you!!!
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“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
― George Carlin
Think of how weak the average person is… you can finish it
This may be the first time I have actually laughed out loud over something I read on the forum. Bravo
Edit: Figured I should actually answer the thread question.
Average Joe Strong is 75% of whatever my current max is at any time, no matter how weak and unathletic I may be
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Agreed, thats not strong by the standards of a 14 year old. My 105lb wife, on her first EVER trip to the gym, worked up to an 80lb bench press. There is no way average Joe is going to look at a 135 bench and think ‘thats pretty strong’
But it’s a big plate on BOTH ends of the bar!
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Yep, the average height and weight vary between countries/continents, i.e. I’m from Italy and you’re from Asia and I’m fairly sure that the average weight in our countries is fairly lower than the average weight in the US. At least, a 200lbs guy in good shape here is the exception, not the norm.
Much like you, I’m 5’8-5’9 and 170-ish, decent shape for an average guy: I have decent shoulders width and development, decently wide and thick back, some traps, some pecs outlining and a shade of abs, but I’m waaay behind to someone who I’d consider muscular for real. I’m not big enough to consider myself “massive” in any way, I’m not lean enough to consider myself lean in any way.
And yet, in the last year or so, pretty much everyone I know and the new people I’ve known commented about me being in shape and look like I lift seriously, which makes me believe that “real world” standards are fairly below the “iron meatheads” standards, so to say, both in regards to muscle development and strength.
A lot of people even commented on my arms being “big”, when holy fuck they’re definitely my weakest point and don’t look utterly ridicolous (like an asparagus) simply because I have decent forearm development.
Talking about commercial gyms, my usual one is closed now and this week I’ve been in a different one, that’s even more commercial, one of those places where shitty equipment automatically limits your gains potential:
-squat rack is narrow, doesn’t have side safeties or pins, just a crapload of j-hooks one above the other with so little room between one hook and the other that racking and unracking is uncomfortable. As someone who was legitimately scared by squats when I began working out, I can see why a beginner would shy away from it and stick to the smith machine and leg press without ever squatting heavy, you basically have to spend more energy to unrack the bar, walk away at least 5-6 steps to get in position, then once you’ve finished the set and are fatigue, do another 5-6 steps ahead and be extremely careful in how you re-rack. It’s pretty much and invitation not to squat heavy or for higher reps;
-there are like a thousand benches and they’re all shitty, very narrow (speaks volumes of the back development of the average gym goer there) and without j-hooks, they have those 45 degrees straight hooks, basically you try your best to get into a good position on that narrow bench, just to fuck it up and lose back tightness when unracking the bar because the hooks are so damn long;
-it’s almost impossible to do a proper deadlift, the 45lbs plates alone don’t have enough diameter, it would be like a deficit pull (which is ok for me, but not the best thing for a total beginner), they have steps to be used as blocks but the lowest height puts the bar too high even using 25lbs plates. Also, they only have those shitty Joe Weider iron plates, so you can’t really stack plates under the bar to adjust height unless you’re willing to do a very slow negative to avoid clanging noise and/or chipping off the plates;
-doesn’t allow chalk;
-funny bonus: the barbell clips that hold in place the plates are, mostly, loose. I’ve only managed to find 3-4 snug ones out of the 20+ I’ve tried. The loose ones start slipping towards the side of the barbell if you accelerate a bit. Magical;
Episodes happened in this gyms about what is perceived as strong:
-very first day I had to work up to my set of 20 squats, I’m in the light week so it was a normal 80kg (176lbs) x20, nothing special. 4-5 guys that were training around the squat rack stopped to look at me during the set, it’s not just something that made me feel uncomfortable, the mind boggling part was that they didn’t start to look while I was ahead in the set (10+ reps, I would understood the curiosity to see how a person handles high reps with no conditioning and 30+°C), they were looking right from the very first reps, like if they never saw someone squatting that much;
-I do a simple superset for traps, it’s 5 reps of explosive snatch grip high pulls from the blocks, I muscle snatch the fifth rep and immediatly follow with 10 slow reps of overhead shrugs, for 3 sets. I use something like 90-95lbs, and I caught people looking at me from the mirrors like if I was trying to summon Satan;
-got people looking at me for doing romanian deads with about 200lbs for sets of 10, got even more looks for doing a few snatch grip deads from blocks with the same weight when grip started to fail;
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I’m Asian, but all my gym experience is in the US lol.
I do go to “nice” gyms though, so I’ll just throw out with no substantiation whatsoever, that “nicer” gyms maybe have a “softer” clientele? i.e. just looking to stay fit, not to get “big” HAH!
I have seen my share of “Average Joe Strong” dudes as depicted by the OP, but they are few and far between.
BTW, the OP’s log has been blowing up, so I clicked on it out of curiosity…
OP!!! You are not “average” by any means, no wonder your “average radar” is so skewed LOLLL!!! @isdatnutty
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Lol, I’m average for this strength forum!