At What Point Is Bodyweight Too Much?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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At What Point Is Bodyweight Too Much?

As I write, I already realize this is probably the worst place to post. In a forum predominately consisting of strength and power lifters, where does the ignorance come in to acknowledge this? I?m on a skinny person crusade here. I?m posting because when I view the ?Critique, Constructive Criticism, Future Hollywood Stars, Make fun of Skinny Twigs? forum, I feel a deep connection to those 140lbers. In fact, I am one.

So I ask this question for you T-Nation readers, at what point do you think you?ll stop training to add pounds to your bodyweight? We all realize that each of us have different goals, some train for speed, strength, explosiveness, looks, and/or downright intimidation.

I?m built on a mentality that I want to stay under two hundred pounds. Perhaps some of you readers, although this is the Beginner?s forum, are already scoffing at this. What is this kid? A joke? But I am sincere in my thoughts that perhaps at two hundred pounds, the adding of muscle becomes more and more nonfunctional for daily life.

I?m a 140lber and proud of it. Maybe some of you out there are too. Maybe we?re just conceited and proud of feeble 8 dots on our stomachs. Maybe it?s just we can?t gain. The point at which we decide we?re done, that we?ve had enough for gaining, is when skinny guys finally can reflect happiness. Until then, I?m aiming for to be proud of 180lber.

Perhaps it?s the reading of sprinters that post a 225x40 at 147 lbs that truly astonishes me. Perhaps it?s just envy. I don?t know. Perhaps this is just a random occurrence for the point for what you call here, the skinny twig, whom I assert as the jacked endurance guy, that we differ. Maybe I?m out on a limb here to support those that I think weighing 160-180 is a good enough weight to stay.

Afterall, it only boils down to why do we truly train? In my mind, at hundred eighty is the point when someone steals a nearby purse from a friendly T-Vixen is when I?m confident I can catch up to such a thief and bring him to his place. Some may argue that at 200+ pounds this is also possible. Yet, can at that weight the speed be maintained? Is it likely 200+ lber run for 400M on a strong confident pace?

Whatever, I?m mumbling. If you?re going to murder me in this thread, try to do nicely  Sums back to the thesis of the original question. Is there a point of muscle mass that is just too much? If so, what do you consider the limit?

I?m a 140lber that feels 40lbs more is ?just right.?
Let the ripping of me to shreds begin.

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2 things.

  1. Why?

  2. Why in Beginners?
    I’d think this question would be better in another forum.

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There are many different aspects of goals.

I think the important thing to note is…

Whatever your goal is, as long as you are making the right moves to attain it, no one can bash you. Overall bodyweight is just one of many goals in training. I cannot vouch for what is too much or too little as it is not my area of training. A lot of this depends on the specific function you are looking for. I personally wouldn’t be as successful with much more weight but that may be different for others in the forum.

It depends on your goals. If your goal is 180 lbs go for it and so be it. There is a difference between a goal and a “satisfaction point”. I believe in never being satisfied. Whether you want to get bigger, faster, heavier, etc. always have a goal and always work for it… don’t always train…

Llive, work, and train with a purpose. If you are doing that… it is very hard for anyone to take you off your feet.

Best of luck.

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I used to be 5’6" and 96lbs, now I’m 5’11" and 160lbs (granted, I’ve gone through a growth spurt). I understand you, fellow ectomorph. I feel your pain.

We’re continuously being shot down for being under 200lbs, looking like twigs and such, but then again, simply because our bodies don’t look like we’re jacked doesn’t mean we don’t work out smart and hard. God knows there are those who can train like absolute idiots and yet still pack on the muscle. (Of course, there are some skinny bastards that think they’re all that, but that’s a case of bad ego. Different topic)

Heck, this Personal Trainer at my gym, he’s 5’8"-ish, and ~150lbs. Yet, he easily benches 225. Don’t go telling me that’s not good. It might not be powerlifter worthy, but then again, is powerlifting his goal? Not at all! Same goes here. We might not be +200lbs, but is that our goal? We can still be crazy strong and fit.

Anyways, my goal is a smaller, but still muscular look, and have the highest power to bodyweight ratio. Other people like to be huge, but not me. That’s my personal preference. Got a problem? Live with it.

Hi, I’m Michael, I’m 160lbs and I like it.

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I suddenly have a feeling this thread isn’t leaving the top 20 anytime soon

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Hehehehe.

I don’t know. Worrying at what weight you can chase down someone who stole a purse might be a bit silly. In my entire life I’ve never had to worry about that type of situation.

There isn’t anything in this day and age you need to be prepared to do. Be prepared to do what you want to do. If you want to do endurance sports, do them. If you want to sprint, sprint. If you want to build mass, build mass.

However, I will suggest that if you aren’t active in a particular sport and you start to spend any reasonable time progressing in the gym, that you will start to set goals for yourself.

Also, no offense, but some folks at these light weights are pretty young. Whether you want to or not, your body will stop growing and your metabolism will eventually slow down – even if it takes decade.

With any sort of reasonable training and food consumption, you will slowly accumulate at least some mass. Yes, yes, I’m sure there are exceptions, don’t wig out on me.

Anyway, at 6’ tall, I’ll never be under 200 lbs unless I’m willing to sacrifice what little muscle and strength I currently have.

I suppose if I ripped all the fat off of my body and somehow magically could keep my muscle and strength, I might dip just under, but I’m not generally capable of staying that lean.

Choose your sport or your workouts and see where your body takes you. If it stays light and lean when you eat and train properly, then good for you. If you start to put on mass and find yourself growing, don’t set some arbitrary number as your limit.

Anyhow, just rambling. I think we’ve got potential for some pretty funny times in this thread…

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Well, for one, I started at 155 and now I’m at 190-195. You’ll find that as you get bigger, you’re just not big enough. I still feel skinny.

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Maybe if these 150lbers would post pics of their feats of strength, endurance, agility, or other ability they “train” for, there would be a different response.

As it is, all we get is "Hi, this iz ma 1st pic. wut do u thnk? thnx

ps i have crappy jeans" in a sub-par bodybuilding pose.

spelling error intentional

What are these people wanting to accomplish by showing us these? Before and after pictures are rare. Its just a random, “look at me and say something nice to me” picture. Recently they’ve even posted the SAME FUCKING PICTURE IN DIFFERENT FORUMS ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE FAIRER SEX. Amazing.

If someone said “Hey this is me at 110lbs, and this is me at 150lbs after one year” there would be a different response.

Also, why do people assume that you are either 1) doomed to being small and ripped or 2)being ungodly fucking bodybuilder big?

I think a lot of people here have a distorted sense of size. Whether its because they’ve seen too many bodybuilding pictures or what, I don’t know. But it seems as if whenever someone who looks like an average, non-trained 18 year old posts a picture and gets slammed, they respond with “Not everyone wants to be a juice monkey behemoth!!”

Oh really? What about wanting to be someone who actually ( in the words of Professor X) looks like they lift weights? Its as if people believe they have to be either 150 and shredded, or 270 and so immobile they have to wipe their ass with a rag on a stick.

What happened to the lean, 220lber who is fast, strong, functional, impressive looking and healthy? Does this not exist?

I think people just look for any excuse to explain their lack of progress.

In closing, you can’t compare apples and oranges. Meaning, don’t start blathering on about endurance, athleticism, feats of strength, etc, when all that gets posted is “look at me but please consider (insert pseudodisadvantage of your choice)”

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[quote]Jeff Shek wrote:
Afterall, it only boils down to why do we truly train? In my mind, at hundred eighty is the point when someone steals a nearby purse from a friendly T-Vixen is when I?m confident I can catch up to such a thief and bring him to his place. Some may argue that at 200+ pounds this is also possible. Yet, can at that weight the speed be maintained? Is it likely 200+ lber run for 400M on a strong confident pace?

[/quote]

Let’s start with, someone weighing over 200lbs solid will be less likely to have ANYTHING stolen right next to him in the first place. How much do you think all of those pro football players who are running backs and lineman weigh? They are unathletic to you? You think that they couldn’t run after someone or that they are “unfunctional”? That was where you first left logic behind…well, possibly before then, like the moment you walked past a larger bodybuilder and started feeling superior to him by even thinking he was less “functional” than you for no reason.

At 140lbs, you honestly have no clue what it is like to even weigh close to 200lbs which makes me seriously wonder why your assumptions are so negative. It is like you have already formed an opinion that being larger in frame is a bad thing and are simply looking for justification. Very few people on this site could pass for pro bodybuilders. My goal is not to take it that far because there actually is a genetic limit to when your own body can work at its best due to lean body mass, but it is not at 200lbs for most people unless you are very short. In fact, without drugs or some genetically mutated gene from birth, it is unlikely you could ever gain so much muscle that you become “unfunctional” to any degree worth noting.

However, let’s go back to your purse snatcher theory. Do you honestly believe that some guy weighing 220+lbs couldn’t run after someone? What would a 140lbs guy do after he caught up with that purse snatcher? Nag him to death? Perhaps, grab an ankle and not let go? Who is more likely to do some damage to that purse snatcher, the 140lbs guy who stayed near 140lbs because he was afraid of being “nonfunctional”, or the jacked 220lbs guy who can bench twice the attacker’s weight?

Like NewDamage wrote, many here seem to be stuck on some misperception of extremes, as if you can only see “weighing 140lbs” OR “being a gigantic 300lbs ripped in contest condition”. This is a ridiculous mind set to have because what has happened to weighing 220lbs when dieted down? What happened to understanding that most guys have to be heavier when gaining than they would ever be when in contest condition? What do you all think of when you see a very large football player? You think they don’t lift weights? David Boston looks like he is “unfunctional” to you?

Yes, this does sound like an excuse made by skinny people to justify why they won’t eat enough or lift enough. They also have the misconception (it seems) that the larger bodybuilder right next to them was never their size so no advice he has relates to them. It is ridiculous.

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Oh boy

At 275, maybe I’m unable to relate, but let me try.

Functional muscle? What does that mean?
I work, play with my kids, fish, golf, and even play rec league basketball. Quite well I might add. Seeing as you’re 60 lbs away from seeing 200, you are not qualified to decide at that weight you become ‘less’ functional.

Yes, you may be able to run faster for a longer stretch of time. But, when I steal your best girls’ purse, and you chase me down, I’ll simply eat you as a snack and be on my way.

Listen, we all have different body typesand we all have different goals. There is no perfect body. There is no gold standard weight. Our only goal is the next one we make for ourselves. If your goal is to blow away when a stiff wind blows by, well God bless you.

What was the real purpose of this post? were you hoping to unite the Al Shades of T-Nation? Did you just want to see how outrageous the comments would be? Were you hoping to give Prof X the big one?

If you want to be 180 then be 180. At a frogs hair over 5’, that ain’t such a bad place to be. Those of us that aspire to bigger really don’t hate those that are smaller. Now, the attitude that accompianies that frame sometimes is a real pisser, but really, it’s your choice and your life.

Enjoy Men’s Health. It was written just for you.

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[quote]StevenF wrote:
Well, for one, I started at 155 and now I’m at 190-195. You’ll find that as you get bigger, you’re just not big enough. I still feel skinny. [/quote]

Exactly right. Yesterdays ‘strong words’ sums it up perfectly:

“Dissatisfaction is the basis of progress. When we become satisfied we become obsolete.” Marriot.

I want more muscle. I am not satisfied being 195. I want more.

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Lurkers,
You might consider a Grow! shake… this is going to be a long one… you’ll need that micellar casein.

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[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Those of us that aspire to bigger really don’t hate those that are smaller. Now, the attitude that accompianies that frame sometimes is a real pisser, but really, it’s your choice and your life.

Enjoy Men’s Health. It was written just for you. [/quote]

Amen to the first part. But “Enjoy Men’s Health”? Please. I might be satisfied with my size the day I become 195, doesn’t mean I don’t want to train the T-Nation way.

Indeed, dissatisfation is the basis of progress. But to me (and this relates to the matter of goals again), when I’ll be 195 I’ll be satisfied with my size. If I get more, so be it, but I won’t work on it. BUT my new dissatisfation will be my strength. And so I will never be satisfied.

Though I can’t answer for Jeff Shek on the goal behind this thread, I know that for myself, I just want to show that there are some guys out there that know what they’re doing in and out of the gym, that don’t have a BS attitude and that happen to be on the skinnier spectrum of the world.

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If you are 140 seeking 180, or 220 seeking 200, the goals may be different, but the journey the same. Choose where you want to go, and get there.
I don’t give a rats ass what anyone says I can or cannot do, I’ll do it anyway. If you feel 180 is good for you, get there. If endurance training is your thing, and people say gaining 40 lbs on that route is impossible, guess what? You have yourself a challenge. A goal should be something YOU want, not what someone else wants. I’ve heard several times that my genetics do not support being lean - I say horseshit.

Body weight numbers are not a standard - everyone is different. Pick a number, and go where you want go. You are thin and might want to bulk. I’m fat and want to lean. Can we both get to where we want to be? Absolutely.

-R

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In response to Joe,

This thread is purely based on hypothetical discussion. The question of ?Why? is, I’m actually quite curious as to how many feel about this. I mean after all we do all have separate purposes and goals, but somewhere along the way I’m sure many of us have a similar pattern of weight that we all want.

The reason why this is in Beginners is because right now, I personally feel that I do not have the right to post in other parts of the forum. I would be arrogant to post in other forums, when I feel that I am not the same caliber of the plefora of information that the coaches, lifters, and/or writers have.

In response to TrigWU,

I admire what you have done. Your goals and expectations, and reasons as to why you would want to be lighter are obvious.

The fact that you are an athlete brings up a large point. It is evident that each sport, bear it endurance or strength requires a certain ideal weight to provide a stronger advantage.

Yet, the majority of T-Nation are not athletes but rather ordinary inspired people. So the question arises to them, have they achieved a mass they are happy with?

To olsfitdude,

I have to agree. I’m 140lb and as of right now, I’m proud of my speed, endurance, and strength. Perhaps a 1.5x BP relative to weight doesn’t compare to those that near 2x, or even 2.5x but at what expense of size?

Although I want to post something relative to what you said, I cannot help but agree to what you said exactly. I’m out to be powerful, but lean.

Vroom,

I’m quite amused at the mockery of my ideal heroic scene of chasing a mugger. Laugh, but oh if the scene magically happened to you, alas it would be happiness that all your bodybuilding paid off! :slight_smile:

I do agree with your post, but I’m still inclined to agree that my number of hundred eighty, is an ideal amount. Strength/Weight ratio, I’m assuming although each body type is significantly different, 180-220 range is probably the point at which more mass means generally the buildup of fat. Perhaps I’m wrong, Perhaps T-Nation already has done studies.

StevenF,
Although I hope perhaps you found this part of my post directed at you quicker, can you say at 195lbs your strength/ratio has improved more and more? If so, then I cannot argue. I can only argue against the point at strength/ratio begins to drop, with the buildup of fat in an attempt to gain more muscle at the same time.

NewDamange,
I do agree those who post their images for vanity are egotistic. I for one, would not post pictures unless it has a before/after. I mean if one does not know an improvement, posting it is for selfish reasons to merely brag. The fact that some hound the forum to rip others to shreds is also a bit intimating.

I’m sure the charm of having a T-Nation poster describe, excellent build etc. means a lot, but through all of the posts, what are the chances of that happening?

I don’t assume that I’ll stay small. In fact, at 180, that is what I call, “perfect.” Obviously there are disagreements at that, such as you seem to portray a 220lber as ideal. Yet for the size of me, 5’8, 180 is more than enough muscle per volume.

True, Us 17-18 year olds have bad egos. We love to be called “great” and loved to be referred to as “Jacked” by our friends. But it is until we enter the world of T-Nation that we discover how miniscule we really are.

In Closing
Hi, I’m Jeff, I’m 140lbs, and although not fully liking it yet, I’m enjoying it.

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[quote]olfitsrule wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Those of us that aspire to bigger really don’t hate those that are smaller. Now, the attitude that accompianies that frame sometimes is a real pisser, but really, it’s your choice and your life.

Enjoy Men’s Health. It was written just for you.

Amen to the first part. But “Enjoy Men’s Health”? Please. I might be satisfied with my size the day I become 195, doesn’t mean I don’t want to train the T-Nation way.

Indeed, dissatisfation is the basis of progress. But to me (and this relates to the matter of goals again), when I’ll be 195 I’ll be satisfied with my size. If I get more, so be it, but I won’t work on it. BUT my new dissatisfation will be my strength. And so I will never be satisfied.

Though I can’t answer for Jeff Shek on the goal behind this thread, I know that for myself, I just want to show that there are some guys out there that know what they’re doing in and out of the gym, that don’t have a BS attitude and that happen to be on the skinnier spectrum of the world.[/quote]

My resonse was meant SOLEY for Jeff (Al) Shek
Peace-----to everyone else

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I’m glad you made this post, because it introduces a subject that has been on my mind at times.

I have had a fairly large range of sizes, mainly thanks to hyper-conditioning, over-training college coaches, a few obscure illnesses, and intermittent periods of bulking. Since graduating high school, I have weighed anywhere from 155 to 220. I am currently sitting at about 195 (reminds me, I need to update my profile), which is 25 pounds less than I weighed at my largest. So why?

I had no problem running sprints, doing 20-rep breathing squats, or even going for a run with my marathoning friends. Hell, I’m pretty sure that I could have run down most any purse-snatching thug. I did, however, have one problem–my lifestyle. I work and attend school at a gigantic university/hospital, which I usually cover quite thoroughly in a day’s time. I probably log well over 10 miles per day, 6 or 7 days/week, in foot traffic. I usually only get the luxury of sitting down in the classroom. It is a lot of work for my rather small frame to be carrying that much weight, no matter how lean and well-conditioned.

In case you are wondering, yes, the load of my job played a big role in dropping those 25 pounds. It is not easy to stay that much above your “natural” weight without a sedentary job. My point is that the drop in weight was not exactly what I wanted, but consequently, it wasn’t entirely unwelcomed. I find my job to be much easier now, and I’m not quite screaming for a jacuzzi and epsom salts after an 18 hour shift.

Just a small observation and personal testament…

~Terumo

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First, I apologize for SOLELY in the previous post

Second, I didn’t get past the part where Jeff S said we at T-Nation are not atheletes.

In high school I was runner up 2 years in a row at the state wrestling tournament.

My first two years of college I went to a junior colleg and played basketball. My team won the stat championship and went to the Nationals.

After that I went to a 4 year school and played 2 years at uw-Oshkosh Division III NCAA basketball.

I golf in the low 80s at our area golf courses–always from the blues, once or twice a year I even venture to the blacks.

I run in 3 or 4 five mile to 10k road races a year.
I run 5 miles in about 40 minutes. And yes, that is at a bodyweight of 275.

You, little man, need to think before you speak

Rant over

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[quote]sasquatch wrote:
First, I apologize for SOLELY in the previous post

Second, I didn’t get past the part where Jeff S said we at T-Nation are not atheletes.

In high school I was runner up 2 years in a row at the state wrestling tournament.

My first two years of college I went to a junior colleg and played basketball. My team won the stat championship and went to the Nationals.

After that I went to a 4 year school and played 2 years at uw-Oshkosh Division III NCAA basketball.

I golf in the low 80s at our area golf courses–always from the blues, once or twice a year I even venture to the blacks.

I run in 3 or 4 five mile to 10k road races a year.
I run 5 miles in about 40 minutes. And yes, that is at a bodyweight of 275.

You, little man, need to think before you speak

Rant over[/quote]

I do not want to step into this arguement as I think both sides are likely to be stubborn and it will get no where. But let me say this…

I think when he said “not athletes” he meant that it wasn’t the main goal of people here. I am not agreeing or disagreeing I am just rephrasing.

We also have to consider that you are 6’4" 275 which is alot different then 6’0" 275.

Seeing as I am 170 lbs and the debate is between 140 and 200 I shall remain perfectly in the middle.

Okay guys… I want a good clean fight…

ding ding

ROUND 2

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Professor X,

I’m not sure where you got the point that I felt was superior to those heavier. You have jumped to that conclusion. The point I’m trying to bring up is that at what point is weight too much?

I’m not here to wreck havoc. If I was, I would not have created this in the first place. I knew I could be setting myself up for this. But, this is for discussion, but evidently I seem to be causing outrage for a civil discussion. I?m curious, it?s an undisputable trait.

Not once, am I saying 140lbs is an ideal weight. I’m saying I AM 140lbs. This was to bring the point that; evidently I know that 140lbs is not a good weight to maintain at. Hell, I’ve been stuffing my face in for the past week to get past it.

But bringing it to the purse-snatch theory. In the purpose given, I’m expecting such-so the chaser to be 180lbs after him. 180lbs, and at a decent height. Not at a height of 4 foot or 7 foot etc.

Bringing the football players, I don’t agree with. They’re on average 6’5? At the height they’re at, it’s a bit harder to use as an example for this.

David Boston is 6’2 and 228 lbs. Weight / Height = 3.08, I guess I should have stated I want to be 5’7-5’8 @ 180. Basically it comes out to about 2.72. Hence it’s about a 10% difference. Obviously he’s a big guy. Maybe using a random formula of weight/height doesn’t solve to make much sense, but yet it does bring a comparison of what I believe is ideal and what he is. But I appear to be digressing here.

I’ve read your previous arguments, and I do agree that “skinny twigs” like us should eat more and it’s indisputable. However, I’m not out here to defend the skinny person here, I’m here to state and ask others what their ideal weight is.

sasquatch, May I ask how tall are you? I realize in my initial discussion, I missed the point of asking for height.

I’m arguing at what point is too much muscle? You state that you’re “pretty good” at your basketball league. However now may I ask do you need let’s assume a 2x bench press, 550 bench press for basketball?

What saddens is me how some posts are here to immediately to mock me whereas I have tried to keep civil. Perhaps some were insulted when I stated I would want to be 180. I’m not stating that 180 is the ideal height for everyone.

As I’m relatively new here, I put it in Beginners Forum thinking that not many would even see it and that it was a honest question that came across. If I wanted to be a Troll, instead of putting some time into writing it, I could have compiled just a crude remark.

If you want to insult me, then I can’t argue. The Men’s Health was a bit amusing I’ll admit, but was it called for?

I also have to agree on the strength aspect. At 180lbs, it doesn’t mean I’ll stop training. Chances are I’ll train harder to attempt to get stronger while maintaining the same weight. To each our own.

Because it seems my point is missed, and rather because I’m 140lb it seems to be more important, at what point, including your frame are you satisfied with a certain weight?