Arnold's Genetics

I do not agree with what some of you are saying. Genetics play a huge role in bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is not a skill based sport. You don’t get better by simply doing it more often/more of it. Most ppl have to find the right combination between rest, training and nutrition to advance. However there are the few people who no matter what they eat or train will make progress. I’m talking about progress double then your avarage trainer in much shorter time.

Sure at some point they reach a limit. However it still takes your avarage trainee (I’m not talking about chatter-joe type, but ppl who seriously train, eat, and rest and try hard to reach results). I don’t know about you but results never come easy to me. Yet I’ve met people who never done a single set of barbell rows or deadlifts in their life and yet have barn door backs. Go figure.

[quote]harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?[/quote]

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

[quote]HOV wrote:
Poor genetics is no excuse for anything. Most of us know nothing about our genes, and there is absolutely NO WAY whatsoever to determine the limits of someone’s genetic potential.

The most likely reasons for our failures or setbacks stems from lack of information, malformed ideas, suboptimal attitudes, or poor practice/training habits.

How can you judge someone’s genetics by looking at them?

I feel sorry for all you people who feel you’ll never be successful because of your genetics. Is that what the results from your gene tests showed?

I do not dispute the fact that many achievements come from a combination of genetics and determination. But because we can never measure our genetic potential for certain tasks, using the idea of genetic limitation simply creates false barriers to progress.

Genetic limitation = fine theory, but lousy practice.[/quote]

kudos to this guy, that’s all i have to say

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
young skinny Arnold[/quote]

He still looked good at 16. He had awesome genetics, an incredible work ethic and some chemical assistance.

Nice pics though.

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Damn, this guy is more dillusional that I’ve ever been. And that’s tough, believe me…

Every Olympia winner and champion athlete in the world has some good genetics. It is the nature of the beast.

Without great genetics, you won’t be a champion among the elite, no matter how much heart or determination you have.

Deal with it.

Frank Zane, Arnold, whoever is the BEST of the BEST had great untrainable physiological attributes that led them to their success. [/quote]

obo, have you been taking your smart pills?

I have agreed with almost eveything you have posted lately.

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

[/quote]

Wow.

Your delusions of grandeur are unbelievable.

You’re not inspiring thought or spurring debate and blowing anyone’s mind.

You’re annoying everyone. You’re a sixteen year old troll whose shitty poetry keeps getting rejected by his high school’s literary magazine, so you’ve come here to bother people.

Go away.

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

Wow.

Your delusions of grandeur are unbelievable.

You’re not inspiring thought or spurring debate and blowing anyone’s mind.

You’re annoying everyone. You’re a sixteen year old troll whose shitty poetry keeps getting rejected by his high school’s literary magazine, so you’ve come here to bother people.

Go away.[/quote]

Does it bother you that I said these things? I think thats what it is. I can quote the exact same things I have said to you “delusional people”; because you have been brain washed and arn’t strong enough to form your own thoughts, by the likes of Arnold himself and Vince Gironda.

The fact that I say genetics are not determined muscularily is one thing, but when other great minds say the exact same thing, well thats another thing. The fact will remain that ignorant people such as yourself will only believe what the masses believe. And thats a pity. You will never make it to any level of greatness with that attitude. You might wanna try reading Gironda, to see if there is anything I have spouted out about the power of the mind and see if you can draw a conclusion. If not, sorry about your luck. you have been misinformed about genetic determination.

The fact that I am probably younger than bothers you, because I have already learned this concept and you have fallen short of comprehension. Thats why I posted this thread. I knew about 99% of you would still believe what you have been told, because you never bothered to find out for yourself.

I am out of this post now. The trolls have showed up.

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

[/quote]

Wow. Someone you’ve totally managed to misperceive what most people are doing in the weight room as well as what’s going on in their heads. Progressive overload? Should I also eat more than one meal a day?

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

Wow.

Your delusions of grandeur are unbelievable.

You’re not inspiring thought or spurring debate and blowing anyone’s mind.

You’re annoying everyone. You’re a sixteen year old troll whose shitty poetry keeps getting rejected by his high school’s literary magazine, so you’ve come here to bother people.

Go away.

Does it bother you that I said these things? I think thats what it is. I can quote the exact same things I have said to you “delusional people”; because you have been brain washed and arn’t strong enough to form your own thoughts, by the likes of Arnold himself and Vince Gironda.

The fact that I say genetics are not determined muscularily is one thing, but when other great minds say the exact same thing, well thats another thing. The fact will remain that ignorant people such as yourself will only believe what the masses believe. And thats a pity. You will never make it to any level of greatness with that attitude. You might wanna try reading Gironda, to see if there is anything I have spouted out about the power of the mind and see if you can draw a conclusion. If not, sorry about your luck. you have been misinformed about genetic determination.

The fact that I am probably younger than bothers you, because I have already learned this concept and you have fallen short of comprehension. Thats why I posted this thread. I knew about 99% of you would still believe what you have been told, because you never bothered to find out for yourself.

I am out of this post now. The trolls have showed up.
[/quote]

YOU ARE NOT SAYING ANYTHING NEW. Everyone who’s ever built significant size or really succeeded in anything at all at a high level already knows the importance of hard work and determination and the power of the mind.

[quote]drock11 wrote:
AAS[/quote]

Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger?

lol J/K

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

Wow.

Your delusions of grandeur are unbelievable.

You’re not inspiring thought or spurring debate and blowing anyone’s mind.

You’re annoying everyone. You’re a sixteen year old troll whose shitty poetry keeps getting rejected by his high school’s literary magazine, so you’ve come here to bother people.

Go away.

Does it bother you that I said these things? I think thats what it is. I can quote the exact same things I have said to you “delusional people”; because you have been brain washed and arn’t strong enough to form your own thoughts, by the likes of Arnold himself and Vince Gironda.

The fact that I say genetics are not determined muscularily is one thing, but when other great minds say the exact same thing, well thats another thing. The fact will remain that ignorant people such as yourself will only believe what the masses believe. And thats a pity. You will never make it to any level of greatness with that attitude. You might wanna try reading Gironda, to see if there is anything I have spouted out about the power of the mind and see if you can draw a conclusion. If not, sorry about your luck. you have been misinformed about genetic determination.

The fact that I am probably younger than bothers you, because I have already learned this concept and you have fallen short of comprehension. Thats why I posted this thread. I knew about 99% of you would still believe what you have been told, because you never bothered to find out for yourself.

I am out of this post now. The trolls have showed up.

YOU ARE NOT SAYING ANYTHING NEW. Everyone who’s ever built significant size or really succeeded in anything at all at a high level already knows the importance of hard work and determination and the power of the mind.[/quote]

I have never responded to any of your posts before, but I will this time. Your posts are intelligent and not flames so i will answer.

There is something everyone is overlooking. Its not determination, we all know about it. You cam believe that or not. What is being missed is “the power of the mind” in what it can to the physiology of your muscles.

Thgis concept was the secret of champions and also the factor in how Arnold built his biceps.

Arnold didn’t do anything that you don’t do in the gym. He did curls. You do curls. He lifted hard and heavy and with all the determination he had.

BUT, what he did that you DON’T do… is believe in the power of being able to change the way his body looked by believing it in his mind.

My pictures I have posted with Arnolds Biceps should be enough proof that this actually exists… for the average reader that doesn’t have the head stuck up their own ass and all they see is their own bullshit.

If you don’t have the power to change your mind, you will never have the power to change your body - Go heavy fool

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How does someone get so annoying by the age of sixteen?

What does “heavy” mean to YOU, fool? Doing the whole stack on the leg abduction machine?

I like you Harris, you made me laugh. You’re right I’m obnoxious, annoying, condescending, aggitating, and any other thing that gets unders someones skin. That is the point. To strike a nerve. I will not be disproved in my thoughts either. No matter how many people think they are “geniuses” and think they have the “end all be all” answers.

I have proved these genetic theories wrong myself and have seen it done before. Therefore, what we are being fed is hogwash. There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew. I will give you all a hint. Does anybody remember Arnold talking about himself having illusions of his biceps being the size of mountains when he was lifting?

Heavy to me… means progressive overload.

Heavy will mean something different to everybody depending on how much they are currently lifting. The idea of “heavy” to me is to always superseed what you have previously done. Seems like most people never really grasp the concept of progressive overload and continue to lift the same weights and the the same everything… forever.

Wow.

Your delusions of grandeur are unbelievable.

You’re not inspiring thought or spurring debate and blowing anyone’s mind.

You’re annoying everyone. You’re a sixteen year old troll whose shitty poetry keeps getting rejected by his high school’s literary magazine, so you’ve come here to bother people.

Go away.

Does it bother you that I said these things? I think thats what it is. I can quote the exact same things I have said to you “delusional people”; because you have been brain washed and arn’t strong enough to form your own thoughts, by the likes of Arnold himself and Vince Gironda.

The fact that I say genetics are not determined muscularily is one thing, but when other great minds say the exact same thing, well thats another thing. The fact will remain that ignorant people such as yourself will only believe what the masses believe. And thats a pity. You will never make it to any level of greatness with that attitude. You might wanna try reading Gironda, to see if there is anything I have spouted out about the power of the mind and see if you can draw a conclusion. If not, sorry about your luck. you have been misinformed about genetic determination.

The fact that I am probably younger than bothers you, because I have already learned this concept and you have fallen short of comprehension. Thats why I posted this thread. I knew about 99% of you would still believe what you have been told, because you never bothered to find out for yourself.

I am out of this post now. The trolls have showed up.

YOU ARE NOT SAYING ANYTHING NEW. Everyone who’s ever built significant size or really succeeded in anything at all at a high level already knows the importance of hard work and determination and the power of the mind.

I have never responded to any of your posts before, but I will this time. Your posts are intelligent and not flames so i will answer.

There is something everyone is overlooking. Its not determination, we all know about it. You cam believe that or not. What is being missed is “the power of the mind” in what it can to the physiology of your muscles.

Thgis concept was the secret of champions and also the factor in how Arnold built his biceps.

Arnold didn’t do anything that you don’t do in the gym. He did curls. You do curls. He lifted hard and heavy and with all the determination he had.

BUT, what he did that you DON’T do… is believe in the power of being able to change the way his body looked by believing it in his mind.

My pictures I have posted with Arnolds Biceps should be enough proof that this actually exists… for the average reader that doesn’t have the head stuck up their own ass and all they see is their own bullshit.

If you don’t have the power to change your mind, you will never have the power to change your body - Go heavy fool
[/quote]

Nah. I believe I have the power to change my body. And I’ve been very happy with the results. Couldn’t ask for anything more. So, my power of the mind must be working. Why are you focusing on Arnold’s biceps? What about the rest of his physique? ALL of it was built with iron will and determination and incredible discipline in training and eating.

Whatever this mystical power of the mind is, that’s what it boils down to. It’s not some metaphysical, mysterious phenomenon. And there’s no reason it should be or needs to be. It’s damn impressive enough in its own right. Few people set a goal, physical or mental, and approach it with the same drive and determination Arnold has. You are seeing the results. His bicep is merely the picture of an impressive bicep. Accomplished by someone with some raw potential with incredible drive and determination who funneled it into a rigoruous training and eating regimen. Maybe you’ll get it someday.

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
I have never responded to any of your posts before, but I will this time. Your posts are intelligent and not flames so i will answer.

There is something everyone is overlooking. Its not determination, we all know about it. You cam believe that or not. What is being missed is “the power of the mind” in what it can to the physiology of your muscles.

Thgis concept was the secret of champions and also the factor in how Arnold built his biceps.

Arnold didn’t do anything that you don’t do in the gym. He did curls. You do curls. He lifted hard and heavy and with all the determination he had.

BUT, what he did that you DON’T do… is believe in the power of being able to change the way his body looked by believing it in his mind.

My pictures I have posted with Arnolds Biceps should be enough proof that this actually exists… for the average reader that doesn’t have the head stuck up their own ass and all they see is their own bullshit.

If you don’t have the power to change your mind, you will never have the power to change your body - Go heavy fool
[/quote]

Essentially your theory is that: Arnold worked hard like everyone else, did the same exercises as everyone else, and for some mysterious reason came out on top, and that this mysterious thing was belief in himself.

Everyone else is suggesting that this mysterious thing is GENETICS. Start off by looking at that magazine cover; Arnold has very low bicep insertion points; this is an advantage for bodybuilders, and it is a GENETIC advantage.

When a lot of guys flex you can fit two fingers between the base of their bicep and the crook of their arm; they have less full looking biceps because of genetics and no matter how much they believe in their biceps they’re not going to have the same look as Arnolds.

Sure Arnold had bad calves; but thats about it. His lats eminate nearly from his waist, in the picture of him holding the rings you can see his extraordinarily large chest (more of these low insertion points). Even if Arnold wasn’t a pure mesomorph (he is very mesomorphic), his physique is considered one of the most asthetically pleasing ever; he has genetically superior proportions.

I’m not saying he didn’t have a superior work ethic as well, but just like you don’t become miss america by really wanting to be pretty, you can’t become one of the greatest bodybuilders ever just because you really want it.

Dude,

I really commend your efforts to educate all of us underacheivers by showing us that we arent reaching our potential. It really is noble, but you are way too late…

Most people here dont hide behind genetics. Most people here dont want to be champion bodybuilders. Most people here understand the attitude and determination and mental focus it takes to move mountains in the weight room.

I think that in your attempt to reeducate us all, you have burnt bridges in this forum and completely ruined your credibility in other threads. No matter how noble or valid you think your points are, no one else does, and its become annoying.

You are one person. Do you really think over the years and years T-Nation has been around, and bodybuilding in general that people havent beat the topic you are touting about to death?

Im in your best interest now. Stop while you are ahead, and save a little face. Otherwise, just change your username and be smarter about what you post if you want people to respect you.

BRAVO!!!

I laughed my ass off when I read that! Great illustration though.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

  1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
  2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
  3. believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
  4. requires excessive admiration
  5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
  6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
  7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
  8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
  9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

  1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
  2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
  3. believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
  4. requires excessive admiration
  5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
  6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
  7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
  8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
  9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
    [/quote]

DITTO

Please take your own advice–at least 10 times by my count, and shut the F up. You’ve shown or proved nothing. It all goes back to your original post where you stated that Arnold and Zane had poor genetics. How could anyone take anything serious after that.

“Arnold can’t even look like Arnold. He’s 60 years old.”

–Well if he was DETERMINED enough, why would age matter?

“Genetics are kinetic energy that will only be released thru determination.”

–By all means, feel free to elaborate on this point.

“from the last time i checked, the average musician looks like they smoked about 2000 lbs of pot throughout their lifetime. can barely reme,ber their own birthday. and have not bit of musical knowledge other than a power cord.”

–And, of course, you happen to have “checked” every musician in the world to determine what the average one looks like. It’s not like you watch a lot of MTV or teen movies and are basing your point of view off of a stereotype, or anything.

“first of ALL…the greatest musicians in the word dont understand music at all.”

Well, it’s a good thing we’ve already established you know every musician in the world. Otherwise, your claiming to know what all the greats do and do not know would seem a little far fetched.

As far as Jimmy and Eric are concerned- I don’t disagree when you say they are great guitarists. But just because you can cite ONE great who can’t name chords and ONE who plays in a rather simple scale doesn’t prove your point. Jimmy could be the exception, not the rule, and Eric could have just found a style that, though simple, is one he likes to play and that others enjoy listening to. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t know anything beyond that.

Besides, all you’re doing is cherry picking two popular musicians to try to make a statement about the whole. I’d guess there are (at least) thousands of great musicians out there who are completely unknown yet compose some pretty incredible pieces and who can hold their own when it comes to music theory. For God’s sake, you can hear some really impressive stuff just hanging out in a subway station. Just because they aren’t popular or heard of doesn’t mean they aren’t great at what they do, nor does it mean they don’t know music.

“You do not need any bit of genetic gift to be able to play the guitar.”

Of course not. You don’t need to have any genetic gifts to do anything, really. Guitar, ballet, billiards, you name it. You can do it all even if you have no genetic gifts. You just won’t be that good at any of them. To be great, or even just skilled, at anything requires some amount of genetic potential.

“imagination is more important than knowledge” - Einstein"

–OK, just because we didn’t buy into this quote the FIRST time you used it doesn’t mean we will gasp in awe of your genius and start pawing at your crotch like starved raccoons the second time around. Just because it may be more applicable to the points you’re trying to make in this post doesn’t mean jack.

“we are now on my horrible typing and spelling”

–And why not? When you are trying to make an intelligent, thoughtful argument, the least you can do is present yourself in an intelligent, thoughtful way. Sure, the Internet (and most message boards) is generally a colloquial environment, but when participating in an intellectual debate, the least you can do is present your argument in a way that ISN’T reminiscent of fingerpaintings on cave walls.

“Im out”

–Nope. Not only are you a crappy debater, your very next post will show you to be a liar, to boot.

"drivel? ok! i’ll give you that. they’re not supposed to be intellectual pieces of garbage. "

–Whaa? Drivel IS, pretty much, garbage. So you’ll “give us” our assessment that your points, which aren’t supposed to be garbage, are, in fact, garbage?

Am I missing something here?

“i have also been tested on I.Q. and tested very high”

–No, you weren’t. Your writing reeks of poor spelling (not typos, as you consistently make the same mistakes over and over and over), 1st grade grammar, and made up words (Page 6, your first post:: muscularily?)

And don’t try to argue that none of that matters. Your writing is so poor it’s insulting to me for you to claim a high intelligence level. You’re not fooling anyone. It’s as simple as that. Don’t try to debate this point, I will not dignify it with a response.

"your barking up the wrong tree, i never even heard of the musicians you named "

–He’s barking up the RIGHT tree. Just because you don’t know all the branches, or even more than a few, on that tree doesn’t mean anything. Ignorance doesn’t prove your point, at all.

"why do so many people on here care to prove me right or wrong. you can’t do it with subjective reasoning. "

–This is a pretty standard argument for teens who think they’re smarter than they actually are. Stating such an obvious fact is by no means impressive. You can’t argue blue is better than green. You can’t argue blondes are better than brunettes. Cool, we get it. But when it comes to measuring GREATNESS at a particular sport, event, achievement, or competition, there HAS to be some sort of acceptable criteria upon which to judge greatness.

You just cannot make an argument that my little sister is a greater basketball player than Michael Jordan.

You cannot make an argument that my arthritic grandmother is a better tapdancer than Michael Flatly just because you say she is.

The fact is, when it comes to awarding special recognition for “greatness” at a particular thing, there IS a general rubric upon which people are judged, subjective as such opinions may be.

"ok, this thread has over a 100 replies on it, mostly mine…i started the thread "

—K…want a cookie?

“to play “stairway to heaven” does not make you a musician in my book”

–Musician: One who composes, conducts, OR PERFORMS music, especially instrumental music.

That’s not in your book, I know. It’s in that other one. You know, the big one that talks about all the words in our language.

My advice would be for you to put down YOUR book and start picking up new ones.

You know, the thick ones. The kind without a lot of pictures.

“guess what everyone of them created their own music and sold millions of albums, how about your musicians? they are a little different I think”

Without dissing their talents- just because they sold millions of albums doesn’t necessarily make them good musicians. Just like starring in a ton of shitty movies doesn’t make Rob Schneider a good actor (oh, wait, this is subjective, right?)

“There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew.”

–haha, this is the opening to every $39.99 (for a LIMITED TIME ONLY!!!) ebook on how to get hyooooge in only 30 days I have ever seen. Did you happen to smuggle this secret out of the USSR, or learn it from Tibetan monks? Is it information formerly classified as “Top Secret” by the CIA for use in the Cold War? Gimme a break.

“I am out of this post now.”

–Good

(Insert his next post)

–You filthy liar. Have you no shame? Have some integrity and just stop posting when you say you will. If you don’t care what we think, and we can’t change your mind, then it’s useless for you to still post.

Your argument is being shredded by just about every member of this board. Your points would be laughable if you didn’t believe so strongly in them. Now, they’re just sad. My advice would be for some mod to just lock/delete this thread, because the tripe being spewed in here is just pathetic.

Just my 2 cents.

[quote]ckg21 wrote:
“Arnold can’t even look like Arnold. He’s 60 years old.”

–Well if he was DETERMINED enough, why would age matter?

“Genetics are kinetic energy that will only be released thru determination.”

–By all means, feel free to elaborate on this point.

“from the last time i checked, the average musician looks like they smoked about 2000 lbs of pot throughout their lifetime. can barely reme,ber their own birthday. and have not bit of musical knowledge other than a power cord.”

–And, of course, you happen to have “checked” every musician in the world to determine what the average one looks like. It’s not like you watch a lot of MTV or teen movies and are basing your point of view off of a stereotype, or anything.

“first of ALL…the greatest musicians in the word dont understand music at all.”

Well, it’s a good thing we’ve already established you know every musician in the world. Otherwise, your claiming to know what all the greats do and do not know would seem a little far fetched.

As far as Jimmy and Eric are concerned- I don’t disagree when you say they are great guitarists. But just because you can cite ONE great who can’t name chords and ONE who plays in a rather simple scale doesn’t prove your point. Jimmy could be the exception, not the rule, and Eric could have just found a style that, though simple, is one he likes to play and that others enjoy listening to. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t know anything beyond that.

Besides, all you’re doing is cherry picking two popular musicians to try to make a statement about the whole. I’d guess there are (at least) thousands of great musicians out there who are completely unknown yet compose some pretty incredible pieces and who can hold their own when it comes to music theory. For God’s sake, you can hear some really impressive stuff just hanging out in a subway station. Just because they aren’t popular or heard of doesn’t mean they aren’t great at what they do, nor does it mean they don’t know music.

“You do not need any bit of genetic gift to be able to play the guitar.”

Of course not. You don’t need to have any genetic gifts to do anything, really. Guitar, ballet, billiards, you name it. You can do it all even if you have no genetic gifts. You just won’t be that good at any of them. To be great, or even just skilled, at anything requires some amount of genetic potential.

“imagination is more important than knowledge” - Einstein"

–OK, just because we didn’t buy into this quote the FIRST time you used it doesn’t mean we will gasp in awe of your genius and start pawing at your crotch like starved raccoons the second time around. Just because it may be more applicable to the points you’re trying to make in this post doesn’t mean jack.

“we are now on my horrible typing and spelling”

–And why not? When you are trying to make an intelligent, thoughtful argument, the least you can do is present yourself in an intelligent, thoughtful way. Sure, the Internet (and most message boards) is generally a colloquial environment, but when participating in an intellectual debate, the least you can do is present your argument in a way that ISN’T reminiscent of fingerpaintings on cave walls.

“Im out”

–Nope. Not only are you a crappy debater, your very next post will show you to be a liar, to boot.

"drivel? ok! i’ll give you that. they’re not supposed to be intellectual pieces of garbage. "

–Whaa? Drivel IS, pretty much, garbage. So you’ll “give us” our assessment that your points, which aren’t supposed to be garbage, are, in fact, garbage?

Am I missing something here?

“i have also been tested on I.Q. and tested very high”

–No, you weren’t. Your writing reeks of poor spelling (not typos, as you consistently make the same mistakes over and over and over), 1st grade grammar, and made up words (Page 6, your first post:: muscularily?)

And don’t try to argue that none of that matters. Your writing is so poor it’s insulting to me for you to claim a high intelligence level. You’re not fooling anyone. It’s as simple as that. Don’t try to debate this point, I will not dignify it with a response.

"your barking up the wrong tree, i never even heard of the musicians you named "

–He’s barking up the RIGHT tree. Just because you don’t know all the branches, or even more than a few, on that tree doesn’t mean anything. Ignorance doesn’t prove your point, at all.

"why do so many people on here care to prove me right or wrong. you can’t do it with subjective reasoning. "

–This is a pretty standard argument for teens who think they’re smarter than they actually are. Stating such an obvious fact is by no means impressive. You can’t argue blue is better than green. You can’t argue blondes are better than brunettes. Cool, we get it. But when it comes to measuring GREATNESS at a particular sport, event, achievement, or competition, there HAS to be some sort of acceptable criteria upon which to judge greatness.

You just cannot make an argument that my little sister is a greater basketball player than Michael Jordan.

You cannot make an argument that my arthritic grandmother is a better tapdancer than Michael Flatly just because you say she is.

The fact is, when it comes to awarding special recognition for “greatness” at a particular thing, there IS a general rubric upon which people are judged, subjective as such opinions may be.

"ok, this thread has over a 100 replies on it, mostly mine…i started the thread "

—K…want a cookie?

“to play “stairway to heaven” does not make you a musician in my book”

–Musician: One who composes, conducts, OR PERFORMS music, especially instrumental music.

That’s not in your book, I know. It’s in that other one. You know, the big one that talks about all the words in our language.

My advice would be for you to put down YOUR book and start picking up new ones.

You know, the thick ones. The kind without a lot of pictures.

“guess what everyone of them created their own music and sold millions of albums, how about your musicians? they are a little different I think”

Without dissing their talents- just because they sold millions of albums doesn’t necessarily make them good musicians. Just like starring in a ton of shitty movies doesn’t make Rob Schneider a good actor (oh, wait, this is subjective, right?)

“There is a secret to genetic potential that only a few of us realize. I know what it is, and so do some others. Arnold also knew.”

–haha, this is the opening to every $39.99 (for a LIMITED TIME ONLY!!!) ebook on how to get hyooooge in only 30 days I have ever seen. Did you happen to smuggle this secret out of the USSR, or learn it from Tibetan monks? Is it information formerly classified as “Top Secret” by the CIA for use in the Cold War? Gimme a break.

“I am out of this post now.”

–Good

(Insert his next post)

–You filthy liar. Have you no shame? Have some integrity and just stop posting when you say you will. If you don’t care what we think, and we can’t change your mind, then it’s useless for you to still post.

Your argument is being shredded by just about every member of this board. Your points would be laughable if you didn’t believe so strongly in them. Now, they’re just sad. My advice would be for some mod to just lock/delete this thread, because the tripe being spewed in here is just pathetic.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

your 2 cents is worth about 2 cents

now this famous persons 2 cents is invaluable…(IronMan, May 1983)

The Essence Of Bodybuilding By Vince Gironda

I have stated numerous times that champions obviously possess something that others do not. Even though training partners do the same routine set for set, rep for rep, they do not obtain the benefits of the champions.
I have observed champions train in a manner I do not approve, but they receive results that are phenomenal. What is it that they possess? Well, I will tell you, they are using mental suggestion (self-hypnosis).

When I first observed this, it puzzled me. The first time I noticed Walt Baptiste, former gym owner and magazine publisher from San Francisco (Body Moderne) touching his abdominals while backstage before going out to pose at several physique contests, he seemed to be saying something to his abdominals as he stroked them. He seemed to be sending a message into this body section, because I could actually see the ABS sharpen up and grow more outlined than his normal condition. I later discovered that Walt was sending mental images to his subconscious, to produce this phenomena.

I learned that you can actually produce the desired condition by picturing in your mind what you wish to manifest. He also breathed deeply and regularly in through his nose and out through his pursed lips. As you know, this type of breathing is employed between sets prior to repeating the next set. At this time, the mechanism employed should be to picture in your mind a clear image of the muscle or area of the body you wish to develop, and hold the image throughout the performance of that set.

Walt promoted the first Mr. California Physique Contests, in which I placed second and third several times. He later gave up his gym and opened a chain of yoga studios in the San Francisco area.

The technique of mental suggestion is what all physical culture writers are trying to explain when they throw that nebulous term “concentration” at you. They seem to recognize that concentration is necessary, but do not know how to trigger the mechanism that produces the phenomenon. The subconscious believes any thought you perceive, and stores it. It accepts everything that is thought or spoken by you or another, if you accept it as truth.

But it must be repeated again and again until the subconscious accepts it as fact. Then it will produce the condition pictured in your mind.

This procedure is what I maintain is used by the champions, whether or not they are aware of it. They are convinced of a successful outcome.

This awareness is more important that any steroid drug, any diet plan or supplement, or any exercise routine ever conceived. I have observed bodybuilders who take steroids and receive no benefits. They take unimaginable amounts of supplements and constantly try new routines, but are not getting results, and never will until they discover that what I have written here is the true essence of bodybuilding. For years I have been asked by my fans to write the secrets of the champions, and here you have it.

So…what’s your progress been like? Have you achieved this phenomenon? Is your diet and training in line? Are you achieving your physique goals? Make sure you really have the building blocks in line or this ‘power of the mind’ is not going to overcome anythign.