Arlovski is fighting for Afflictiong on July 19th vs. Ben Rothwell. I’m not sure exactly what Affliction is paying, but it’s assumed to be as much, if not more than what UFC was paying him.
This thread went exactly the direction I suspected it would. C’mon people, we’re not really going to change each other’s minds thru an argument on the internet especially in regards to something like this which takes on emotional levels similar to politics and religion in many cases.
I can’t even believe it’s 2008 and people are still arguing about this. Alas, I will just ignore it from now on.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
I can’t even believe it’s 2008 and people are still arguing about this. Alas, I will just ignore it from now on.[/quote]
Bro, this is serious proof that people are morons who will ignore all evidence that goes against their bias. You’d think after UFC 1, no one would have these discussions.
It’s good to remember that this type of STUPIDITY extends way beyond the current discussion. Remember that next time you’re wondering, “Why can’t I get through to this person using logic and reason.” For many (like the moron you were arguing with), logic and reason have NOTHING to do with their “thought” processes.
Of course, in our own lives, we must ruthlessly examine ourselves for bias.
[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
I’d like to see Arlovski vs David Tua.[/quote]
Sure, if you like watching 10 second kos.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A lot of crazy shit…
[/quote]
Wow, I can’t believe we still have arguments like this. Doesn’t it seem a little crazy that not even one of the “good” (apparently just anyone will do) boxers, would take the time to step over and become world champ… I mean its so easy. Hell if you can just back pedal out of a takedown so easily, maybe they should go win the Olympic gold in wrestling as well… With a 2004 join date, I assume you’re not trolling.
Just stop and consider for a moment how crazy it would sound to you if a wrestling fan said “Oh a wrestler would just duck his punch the slam him” or if a Jujitsu guy told you “A Black belt would just leap into a flying arm bar, then its tap or snap”. Ever one has there favorite aspects of fighting, but you’re being ludicrously biased. In the same way that a boxer is good at punching and defending punches, and a wrestler wrestles well, A MIXED martial artist is better when you’re allowed to MIX those things. If boxing was all you needed to be successful then nobody would train anything else.
I don’t see myself as being biased about either side and ignoring things. I just think that saying a good boxer will basically definitely dominate is extreme. Striking is only half the equation in MMA. I can understand someone saying an MMA fighter is likely to do poorly in boxing since one most likely divides his attention pretty evenly between striking and grappling and half of what he’s learned can’t be applied in boxing.
When a boxer is put into MMA though he’s lacking any experience in half the sport instead of just a greater specialization in it. Being able to backpedal and throw good punches does not mean you have a good take down defense. If someone really wants to take you down knowing how to sprawl and the way the moves being used on you work becomes equally important. Like how do you “light someone up” if he drops straight to the ground aiming for your legs and you can’t kick him because he’s too low to the ground? Even if you could hit with a knee or other leg strike if we are talking about boxing only using hands then there is no reason to assume the boxer knows how to strike well with his legs.
[quote]nothingclever wrote:
I don’t see myself as being biased about either side and ignoring things.[/quote]
If this sentence was in response to me, I wasn’t referring to you in the above post.
[quote]Max Hardcore wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
I’d like to see Arlovski vs David Tua.
Sure, if you like watching 10 second kos.
[/quote]
Ideally I would like to see his pain extended as divine judgment for me having to watch him shadowbox 25 minutes against Tim Sylvia and then having a shadowboxing contest with Werdum.
That said, 10 seconds sounds about right.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
The people mentioned before started as boxers, couldn’t hack it and switched to mma. Arlovski is doing the opposite, and as far as I know is the first to attempt it.
If you were not lazy and trying to act like you know stuff, you would have a least did a cursory search to see everyone I mentioned fought in MMA before doing boxing. You can add many more to the list. Noguiera is a BJJ specialist and won the Pan-Am games in boxing.
As for your other comments, about a boxer just back peddling a shot, it just goes to show how inexperienced and uneducated you are about wrestling and grappling.
I apologize for my haste, but I still firmly believe what I said. If you think a wrestler/grappler can just shoot on a fleet footed boxer and take him down, it just shows how inexperienced and uneducated you are about boxing.[/quote]
Im not saying boxing wont help in making a well rounded
fighter, because it most definitely will, but if boxers were all able to dominate so convincingly, all the UFC belts in all the weight classes would go to the best boxers
[quote]nothingclever wrote:
I don’t see myself as being biased about either side and ignoring things. I just think that saying a good boxer will basically definitely dominate is extreme. Striking is only half the equation in MMA. I can understand someone saying an MMA fighter is likely to do poorly in boxing since one most likely divides his attention pretty evenly between striking and grappling and half of what he’s learned can’t be applied in boxing.
When a boxer is put into MMA though he’s lacking any experience in half the sport instead of just a greater specialization in it. Being able to backpedal and throw good punches does not mean you have a good take down defense. If someone really wants to take you down knowing how to sprawl and the way the moves being used on you work becomes equally important. Like how do you “light someone up” if he drops straight to the ground aiming for your legs and you can’t kick him because he’s too low to the ground? Even if you could hit with a knee or other leg strike if we are talking about boxing only using hands then there is no reason to assume the boxer knows how to strike well with his legs.[/quote]
Not to mention that punching power is severely lessened while back pedaling. Basically your are trying to generate force forward, while your true power (your BW) is moving backwards. Is it possible to move back, plant and then throw a powerful punch? Yes. Might the boxer catch the takedown artist on the way in? Maybe.
But a good takedown artist isn’t just going to dive at your legs. They aim to come right through you, and don’t stop coming until they either take you down, or put you up against the fence and then take you down. Watch Koscheck, he’s got the best takedowns in MMA IMO. He doesn’t just reach out and grab his opponent’s legs, he aims to blast through his opponent and then, when he’s got his opponent off balance and backpedaling, he grabs the legs (his favorite takedown is a “high double”) which usually winds up with his opponent thundering to the mat.
Lots of wrestlers will also eat a punch (or kick/knee) as well. That’s one of the reasons for such a high prevalence of cawliflower ear. They are taught to just blast through anything that is in the way (elbow, punch, knee, etc…). If they get a good jump, they will smother a punch fairly effectively.
Plus it seems like Whiteflash is suggesting that boxers would win on athleticism. This might be true in some cases, but you also have guys like Kos, GSP, Cotoure, Henderson and others who are very, very, gifted athletes as well. The boxer might be able to out attribute the lower level MMA guys, but they’d be in for a really unpleasant time against the upper echelon guys.
I’m not arguing though that if a boxer actually trained right (in wrestling/JJ), that they couldn’t do well in MMA. Just that boxing alone would not likely take them to the top.
For the benefit of all those with a moderate degree of intelligence I am changing the topic… what do you think of Tua as a world class fighter?
I can’t say I’m overly impressed myself…
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
For the benefit of all those with a moderate degree of intelligence I am changing the topic… what do you think of Tua as a world class fighter?
I can’t say I’m overly impressed myself…[/quote]
Right now? Hell no. He as lost weight, though. I think Tua is a perennial top contender who doesn’t have the boxing skills to take out a guy who can move and display some ring generalship like we saw against Lennox.
I fucking love Tua, though. The guy is pure entertainment, and his left hook is one of the hardest punches ever. He ruined John Ruiz’s career, that guy has just never been the same since that life threatening beat down. His fight versus Ike Ibeabuchi is one of my favorite heavyweight fight ever.
Tomatoe Can