Are Rest Days Necessary?

Training
101

[quote]susani wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]susani wrote:
men stronger than women is just incorrect. There is a huge amount of overlap.
[/quote]
There’s not though :expressionless:

There is almost zero overlap in fact. Sexual dimorphism is a construct borne of millions of years of evolution, and no amount of positive thinking can overpower a force of that magnitude. In humans and primates especially it is very pronounced.

You’re right that with a little elbow grease a female can get stronger than some untrained males. But in order for them to keep up with a trained male they need to add steroids (and even then they’re usually still way behind) and if the male adds steroids, well they’re pretty much out of luck entirely.[/quote]

If you believe that then you have nothing to fear if women start to directly compete with men. And if it helps them to raise their game then everyone wins :slight_smile:

Certainly my pullups came on in leaps and bounds when I got into a one year challenge with a strong, powerlifting personal trainer at my gym. I was starting out barely able to do pullups. He started out able to do 20 and 3 reps weighted by about 40kg.

So a huge head start on me and supposedly a genetic advantage (due to his gender). I’ve come on in leaps and bounds having a nice, tough challenge to work towards - someone stronger to beat. Like I said, I’m now ahead of the trained guys in my gym when it comes to pullups.

Some whine about me being lighter; others claim it’s because I put more training time in than them; others try to devalue the goal - pullups are a waste of time they insist. At the end of the day what counts is the result - each individual has to find what works best for them and then chase after their goal relentlessly.

Join in the challenge if you like - pullups max reps and most weight added for 3 reps (as percentage of bodyweight). Challenge day Feb 2015 - can’t remember the exact date. You’re starting late, but if you have the gender advantage that you claim that won’t phase you. I’m certainly not phased by anyones delusion of male superiority - it makes the game all the more fun :wink: :)[/quote]

So if women can compete with men why do the best women in the world not even hold a candle to the best men in the world at the same sport or competition? Shouldn’t it be even then becuse we have then controlled for the genetic elite. The ones who can train all day and recover all day. Show me the woman at the top that best the man at the top of a sport I truly don’t care either way I am now curious if you have this example

And no I won’t join the competition. You would beat me easy I admit it nor do I care. :slight_smile:

102

Ryan, I’m guessing that none of us involved in this discussion - male or female - are amongst the best in the world. So what the best in the world are doing isn’t really relevant to us. It’s what each of us as individuals can do - and those of us that are competitive want to know what we can do in relation to each other. Size, weight, age, gender…none of that matters if you’re truly competitive. You’re just get a big thrill out of pulling out all the stops and finding out what you’re capable of - the stronger the competition the better. I LOVE it - ESPECIALLY when everyone thinks I’m the underdog. :slight_smile:

But sure - totally nuts to compete over something that’s not of interest to you. Use the competition to help you move forward in the direction that YOU want to go. Don’t let others manipulate you into chasing your tail over stuff that’s not of interest to you. :slight_smile:

103

[quote]susani wrote:
Ryan, I’m guessing that none of us involved in this discussion - male or female - are amongst the best in the world. So what the best in the world are doing isn’t really relevant to us. It’s what each of us as individuals can do - and those of us that are competitive want to know what we can do in relation to each other. Size, weight, age, gender…none of that matters if you’re truly competitive. You’re just get a big thrill out of pulling out all the stops and finding out what you’re capable of - the stronger the competition the better. I LOVE it - ESPECIALLY when everyone thinks I’m the underdog. :slight_smile:

But sure - totally nuts to compete over something that’s not of interest to you. Use the competition to help you move forward in the direction that YOU want to go. Don’t let others manipulate you into chasing your tail over stuff that’s not of interest to you. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

You have been bringing up the best in each area in all arguments so figured we continue with that

I look forward to observe this competition though

104

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]susani wrote:
Certainly my pullups came on in leaps and bounds when I got into a one year challenge with a strong, powerlifting personal trainer at my gym. I was starting out barely able to do pullups. He started out able to do 20 and 3 reps weighted by about 40kg.
[/quote]

How many inches did you add to your lats over that period? [/quote]

No real difference in inches. But I do look very different and whilst my chest measurement hasn’t changed much (maybe an extra half inch) I’ve gone up a couple of clothes sizes. Back is definitely broader - I get ‘stuck’ in clothes quite frequently.

I’ve put on 2kg since feb yet fat levels are noticeably lower. So there has been muscle gain despite me trying very hard to avoid it! Not all from pullups though. Because of the problems with my hip I hadn’t been able to train my lower body properly for years. My right glutes were badly atrophied. That’s building back up nicely now so that’ll explain some of the weight gain. Also I’m doing stuff like levers, handstand pushups - stuff that’s really hitting the whole body - and it’s stuff that’s new to me so it will be building some muscle.

I was thinking the other day about how much muscle mass you could realistically gain as a female. I’d thought not much. But when I was in my early 20’s I weighed about 110lbs. I was skinny as a rake back then. 30 years later I weigh 145 with a little bit more fat. So that’s maybe a gain of 30lbs of lean mass over the years. Less than 1lb a year - but always my sports have required good relative strength so I’ve always trained to AVOID muscle growth. How much would I have gained if I’d trained for increased mass all those years?

So maybe there is more potential for muscle growth than I thought. I come from a family of skinny rakes so my guess is that if I were a bodybuilder I’d be classed as a hard gainer.

I aim to exhaust strength gains through neural adaptation before attempting to increase mass. I don’t want any ‘inefficient’ muscle mass. I’ve never yet got to the point where I need to deliberately increase mass. The neural adaptation stuff keeps working - slowly edging weight up over the years.

But the pullups are making me bigger despite my best efforts to keep my weight down. I had planned on being about 61kg by now so I’m 5kg heavier than planned.

105

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Omg limits. You’re setting limits. Please die.
[/quote]

It would be the greatest troll job ever if PX re-registered as a middle-aged white woman.

Susani: How do you feel about the following topics:

  1. Cheeseburgers,
  2. The benefits (and definition) of pre-exhaustion as it relates to weight lifting, and
  3. The prevalence of muscular black men on the basketball courts of inner-city Houston?

Thanks!

106

No feelings whatsoever - sorry. But hey - if they’re interesting topics to you that’s all that matters. Why not start a thread about it and see if you can find someone that shares your interests? :slight_smile:

107

OK, just checking.

Thanks for being a good sport about it.

108

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Omg limits. You’re setting limits. Please die.
[/quote]

It would be the greatest troll job ever if PX re-registered as a middle-aged white woman.

Susani: How do you feel about the following topics:

  1. Cheeseburgers,
  2. The benefits (and definition) of pre-exhaustion as it relates to weight lifting, and
  3. The prevalence of muscular black men on the basketball courts of inner-city Houston?

Thanks!
[/quote]

You made me spit out some of my Reese’s puffs

109

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
This conversation is ludicrous.
[/quote]
Understatement.

110

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Omg limits. You’re setting limits. Please die.
[/quote]

It would be the greatest troll job ever if PX re-registered as a middle-aged white woman.

Susani: How do you feel about the following topics:

  1. Cheeseburgers,
  2. The benefits (and definition) of pre-exhaustion as it relates to weight lifting, and
  3. The prevalence of muscular black men on the basketball courts of inner-city Houston?

Thanks!
[/quote]

You made me spit out some of my Reese’s puffs [/quote]
Don’t you know…cereal in the morning, ice cream in the evening, thats your mistake.

Besides, since I was the last person in that quote about limits and dying, I thought it was directed at me, not Susani.

111

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Omg limits. You’re setting limits. Please die.
[/quote]

It would be the greatest troll job ever if PX re-registered as a middle-aged white woman.

Susani: How do you feel about the following topics:

  1. Cheeseburgers,
  2. The benefits (and definition) of pre-exhaustion as it relates to weight lifting, and
  3. The prevalence of muscular black men on the basketball courts of inner-city Houston?

Thanks!
[/quote]

You made me spit out some of my Reese’s puffs [/quote]
Don’t you know…cereal in the morning, ice cream in the evening, thats your mistake.

Besides, since I was the last person in that quote about limits and dying, I thought it was directed at me, not Susani.[/quote]

Damn I just go no food in the mooring and cereal and ice cream in the evening. Now I get it.

It was directed at you. Very sarcastically though.

112

Csulli (and anyone else that fancies joining in)…

[quote]susani wrote:
OK, the rules are:

Deadhang pullups with full lockout on each rep and chin above the bar at the top.

First part of the challenge is just max reps - most continuous reps without letting go of the bar. No time limit though so I guess you can hang for ages between reps if you want.

Second part of the challenge is 3 reps weighted - most weight as a percentage of bodyweight wins.

I’d actually like to add in a ‘most in 24 hours’ - and maybe one or two others. Just to test all aspects of strength/endurance/recovery. But the original challenge just has two parts.

We hadn’t actually got as far as deciding this, but I think probably the two parts of the challenge will be held on separate days. Sometime in Feb 2015.

If we’re now doing this from different sides of the world I guess video evidence is required.

Heading off to the gym right now to work on my pullups - with a little extra boost of motivation. Can’t loose face by failing now!!! :)[/quote]

I forgot to say - it’s pronated grip. Originally we said shoulder width grip, but I’ve actually switched to wider than shoulder width. That made it harder - slashed my reps in half initially, so I don’t think my ‘opponent’ will object. But the rule just says pronated grip - choose the width that’s most comfortable/best gets you towards your goals.

As you’ve joined the challenge on the ‘training every day’ thread I don’t know if you also want to post up a ‘now’ video to show where you are and also outline your training schedule? Or maybe reveal that at the end of the challenge (keep you cards close to your chest for now :wink: ) ?

I’ll also be testing 1RM, ‘race to 100’ most in 2 minutes and most in 24 hours - but that’s optional.

Good luck - and may the best person win (additional prizes for best form, most improvement, greatest absolute strength and so on…:wink: )

113

Are you and the challengers doing it those all in one session? And by session I refer to 1-2 hrs

114

You mean complete all the ‘challenges’ in one session? No - the idea is to test each different aspect from fresh to get a reliable indication of where you’re strong/weak. So probably a day or two between each one.

The ‘most in 24 hours’ can’t be completed in 1 - 2 hours. It is by definition a 24 hour challenge. That said, the world record holder didn’t even manage to sustain it for a full 24 hours - I think he did something like 15 hours in sets of 5, 4 and 3. I think I remember reading that he did take a four hour break at 15 hours but only managed two more reps when he came back to it. My experiences is limited, but my feeling was that you just have to keep going - take a break and everything goes into repair mode and it’s all over. I set up a one minute beeper on my lap top and just did the reps on the minute, every minute without fail. I think it’s the only way it works with a long haul challenge. A couple of the guys tried approaching it differently and failed badly - ended up re-doing it using ‘on the minute every minute’.

But all the other challenges will take from a few seconds (1RM) to 5-10 minutes or so (race to 100).

Are you tempted?

115

I bet if you ACTUALLY rest and let your body catch up, you will make some crazy gains in a short period of time. Even if you are making progress, that doesn’t mean it’s optimal.

116

[quote]susani wrote:
You mean complete all the ‘challenges’ in one session? No - the idea is to test each different aspect from fresh to get a reliable indication of where you’re strong/weak. So probably a day or two between each one.

The ‘most in 24 hours’ can’t be completed in 1 - 2 hours. It is by definition a 24 hour challenge. That said, the world record holder didn’t even manage to sustain it for a full 24 hours - I think he did something like 15 hours in sets of 5, 4 and 3. I think I remember reading that he did take a four hour break at 15 hours but only managed two more reps when he came back to it. My experiences is limited, but my feeling was that you just have to keep going - take a break and everything goes into repair mode and it’s all over. I set up a one minute beeper on my lap top and just did the reps on the minute, every minute without fail. I think it’s the only way it works with a long haul challenge. A couple of the guys tried approaching it differently and failed badly - ended up re-doing it using ‘on the minute every minute’.

But all the other challenges will take from a few seconds (1RM) to 5-10 minutes or so (race to 100).

Are you tempted?

[/quote]

I was hoping i didn’t have to clarify that no shit the 24 hr one can’t be done in 1-2 hours :slight_smile: my god

And no not tempted in the least. I want muscle size and leanness (and to have fun lifting and traing) and strength is a distant second. Odd challenges and endurance type stuff if not even close to anything I desire. And yes I would get my ass kicked. But like I said I respect those that do those things. And I am excited to watch this unfold

117

It does make it more fun when others join in. Maybe I should start a thread and see if I can recruit some more challengers. The most interesting bit is seeing how different people compare with regards to various aspects of the challenge.

For example, the world record holder who’s 1RM is bodyweight plus 100% (And he weighs in at a couple of hundred pounds) can do 37 continuous reps yet his race to 100 is only 8 minutes something. I say only!! LOL - but compared to the rest of what he does I think that’s out of step.

An interesting one to look at is what happens at 80% of 1RM - that gives an indication as to your mix of fast and slow twitch fibers. According to that test the world record holders (male and female) have high percentages of fast twitch compared to the average person.

Yet that makes them good at reps too (36 / 37 for both the male and female record holder). My strength is going to be in the long haul stuff I think. Not continuous reps, but ability to do lots of small sets. I seem (so far) to have an abnormal ability to keep going. To early to be sure though.

I started on a new pullup training cycle today - something different. Time to up the anti a bit! LOL (Keeping my cards close to my chest now though :wink: )