My bench was stahled for roughly a year before I made some changes. I finally started hitting some PR’s again when I simply started benching more. Normal bench for 3’s and 5’s, close grips, wide grip, paused and touch n’ go. I got away from all the other main movements that trained the bench and just benched.
I always thought from what I read was that tucking the elbows and avoiding a wide grip protects the shoulders and helps prevent pec tear’s or have I misinterpreted what I read ?
[quote]tredaway wrote:
I always thought from what I read was that tucking the elbows and avoiding a wide grip protects the shoulders and helps prevent pec tear’s or have I misinterpreted what I read ?[/quote]
That’s why you do a moderate tuck on the descent. But if you don’t flare at some point on the way up, you’re wasting a lot of force potential. Think about how big the pecs are versus the anterior delts and even the tris, then tell me why you would want to inhibit that amount of muscle from really coming into the lift. Simply put, more muscle involvement means the sum force will be bigger.
Also, I bench inside the rings even as a competition grip. I think most people probably don’t get much benefit from benching extremely wide, particularly raw lifters. There’s always a point where the advantage you get from a shortened range of motion will be negated by poor leverage…that’s just a spot you have to find for yourself.
Cheer’s to this thread 
This whole thread is a sort of lesson in how you cannot approach the bench press as though it were a simple physics problem. Reducing the range of motion as much as possible (via massive arch) and pushing in a straight line might make sense on paper, but they do not translate into a stronger bench press for the vast majority of raw lifters.
There is a large disjoint between theory and practical application, and that disjoint is caused by different people’s biomechanics. Whether you’re chest dominant or shoulder dominant or lat dominant or tricep dominant, the muscle insertion points of your arm and chest and shoulder muscles, upper body bone lengths… all that stuff. Someone said earlier that bench form is very individualistic. That’s quite true. You can find numerous accounts of long armed, tall people being significantly stronger with a pretty close grip rather than trying to mitigate their long armedness by going wide. It doesn’t really make sense, but that’s just the way it is.
There’s a video, youtube vid floating around of Jay Nera, world class raw bencher. He puts a shirt on, just loose, slips it on, anyway he lays down, and unracks 405, it comes down about half way, foot or so from his chest, then he lifts his head up, and starts talking to the camera, joking around. he says I’m doing absolutly nothing right now, the weights sitting on the shirt, it can’t go any further down, because the weights to light, but I could sit here all day. It’s a pretty funny vid, his buddy starts pushing down on the bar, and it won’t go any further down. he states he would need 550lbs atleast to be able to touch the bar to his chest.
I’m not against geared lifting at all, my point is, they are two completely different animals, and it seems most of the big benching articles, are written by geared bencher’s. This creates confusion, especialy for beginer’s. there are different sticking points, and different weak points.
On a side note if anyone has the ability to find and drag the vid here, it’s pretty freaking funny, and the best vid I’ve ever seen for showing how geared benching works, and the differance from raw benching. He explains the different training styles for each. I’m computer iliterate Latter
Thank you everyone for all your inputs. All of this advice and wisdom pertaining to how important the triceps are compared to the pecsis has been very helpful in given me better perspective on the bench press. Also, I am glad you guys like this thread.
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[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
There’s a video, youtube vid floating around of Jay Nera, world class raw bencher. He puts a shirt on, just loose, slips it on, anyway he lays down, and unracks 405, it comes down about half way, foot or so from his chest, then he lifts his head up, and starts talking to the camera, joking around. he says I’m doing absolutly nothing right now, the weights sitting on the shirt, it can’t go any further down, because the weights to light, but I could sit here all day. It’s a pretty funny vid, his buddy starts pushing down on the bar, and it won’t go any further down. he states he would need 550lbs atleast to be able to touch the bar to his chest.
I’m not against geared lifting at all, my point is, they are two completely different animals, and it seems most of the big benching articles, are written by geared bencher’s. This creates confusion, especialy for beginer’s. there are different sticking points, and different weak points.
On a side note if anyone has the ability to find and drag the vid here, it’s pretty freaking funny, and the best vid I’ve ever seen for showing how geared benching works, and the differance from raw benching. He explains the different training styles for each. I’m computer iliterate Latter[/quote]
Here ya go Jake
I love this video, haven’t seen it in awhile, anyway the last thing I wanted to do was turn this thread into an argument, it’s a great thread, but you can’t watch this vid, and think raw benchers, and shirted benchers should train the same, and I think this explains why maybe you’ve seen big bencher’s that don’t have big chests, justy big tri’s. I do love watching geared lifter’s do they’re thing though, it’s just a different animal
Thanks Matty, and Reed, someday I’ll grow up, and learn how to compute
Great tips in here thanks alot going to add more pressing in my routine, just have to match it with face pulls. I usually pull more in my routines and it has left my upper front part of my body weak. Mostly shoulders.
[quote]Reed wrote:
Its to early for me tell but I have to say its all about the guy or gal benching. My bench is horrid Csulli had the honor of watching me miss a measly 310 at Record Breakers last month. I had done everything said here for raw guys trying to get my chest stronger and ohp up to get my bench up. I tried this plus high volume, low volume, reloading, bands no matter what I was stuck and had alot of shoulder and elbow pain no matter what.
How ever in less than a month I have focused on crushing my triceps because its about the only thing I haven’t tried and I switched to primarily using nothing but a Reverse Grip on Benchs and tonight hit a easy a very easy 310 paused pain free. So find what works for you and hammer it.[/quote]
Right on…nice job!
This is a bit off topic, but I find no pressing movements ever hit the long inside head of the triceps. I would think the average PL’s triceps would not compare to a BB’s because of the lack of overhead extensions.
OH presses and that cable rope extension where you not only press down, but out too will work the long head. I find training the long head useful for keeping my shoulder and scapulae and shoulders healthy. It actually runs to the scapulae so that’s probably why.
Willie is an og, taught me alot back in the day. The guy that trained everyone and helped progress all the guys out of ottawa, is a dude named Sam, was a strongman competitor very resourceful,strong and nice guy all around. I think I can say that will is pound for pound the strongest guy Ive seen lift it’s insane the shit he would do, like mind boggling that any one can lift that much weight and to do it at like 170 or what ever he weighed at comps…wow.
Jlabs Wrote;
Willie is an og, taught me alot back in the day. The guy that trained everyone and helped progress all the guys out of ottawa, is a dude named Sam, was a strongman competitor very resourceful,strong and nice guy all around. I think I can say that will is pound for pound the strongest guy Ive seen lift it’s insane the shit he would do, like mind boggling that any one can lift that much weight and to do it at like 170 or what ever he weighed at comps…wow.
Awesome, I want to get up to Otawa this summer and do some training at/with Jay Nera his gym, and crew, he’s super friendly helpful on line, have you ever trained or been to his gym. Otawa’s only an hour or so from me, should keep in touch, as I’m trying to start up an anual PLing meet at my own gym. I’m just figuring out how to get it reconized with a certain fed, and what not now. Trying to tie it in with a local BBing show. If you know any Pling organization’s in Otawa that could help with this, mabey on my log if you don;t mind. Sorry for the hyjack, didn’t realize Jlabs was from Otawa, or I forgot, probably, anyway thanks
That video is a real eye opener it just shows how different geared lifting is compared to raw lifting.
It becomes what you can bench for the top half it seems - triceps - board presses, become prime mover’s. totaly different than what a raw lifter needs - pecs - delts, become more important
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
It becomes what you can bench for the top half it seems - triceps - board presses, become prime mover’s. totaly different than what a raw lifter needs - pecs - delts, become more important[/quote]
eh, sort of Jake. One way to articulate the feeling of how a bench shirt works with heavy weight is to liken it to a raw dead bench. Yes, light weights in a shirt “pop” off the chest to some degree but when you get ‘heavy’ it feels like a ton of shit sitting on your chest. One still needs all the bench press muscles. It is no coincidence that the good shirted benchers are also awesome raw pressers. The shirt ‘can’ extend the normal human potential but they arent magick.
Back when I was taking 405ish raw, I was hitting 550ish in the shirt. Both benches were awesome for me and challenging in different ways. One was like fucking the preachers daughter, the other was like fucking a hot stripper - both are fun :). I’ll leave it for you to decide which is which! lol
To truely understand a bench shirt is to get in one. Most things people think they know about bench shirts is mostly bullshit.
Quick derail but you must tell us who that woman in your avatar is!