Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]derek wrote:
forbes wrote:
greekdawg wrote:

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

and how do you manage that? you must be in the gym every day then. sorry, but i don’t (or won’t) have that kind of time on my hands.

Don’t take this the wrong way but “bodybuilding” to us means making sacrifices to build the biggest muscular body possible. We make the time if we need to and sacrifice other things in our lives to see that it gets done.

This is more than a hobby to us. Hitting the gym 5 days per week is not that unusual to many of us.[/quote]

Anything else is not bodybuilding. I can’t even believe the other one thought you couldn’t hold down a full time job and also live a bodybuilding lifestyle.

If these are the types attracted to TBT in majority, why does Waterbury even mention bodybuilding at all?

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

If these are the types attracted to TBT in majority, why does Waterbury even mention bodybuilding at all? [/quote]

Because he suffers from delusion.

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[quote]derek wrote:
forbes wrote:
greekdawg wrote:

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

and how do you manage that? you must be in the gym every day then. sorry, but i don’t (or won’t) have that kind of time on my hands.

Don’t take this the wrong way but “bodybuilding” to us means making sacrifices to build the biggest muscular body possible. We make the time if we need to and sacrifice other things in our lives to see that it gets done.

This is more than a hobby to us. Hitting the gym 5 days per week is not that unusual to many of us.[/quote]

now, im not trying to be rude or anything, but do those sacrifices mean blowing off friends and family? to me, those are THE most important things in life, and NOTHING (not even my physique) comes first. there’s more to life than this.

i suppose then this is our largest difference. im willing to make some sacrifices, BUT if going to the gym requires me to say "sorry guys, can’t make it out tonight, i have to go to the gym.

And frankly, it’s more important than you" or “sorry mom and dad, but i know that you guys serve unhealthy food, so im not gonna come over unless you change your mind and make chicken and rice”.

i know how this bodybuilding gig can be. obsessive. self-conscious. reclusive. for someone who’s getting help already from being a social phobic and OCD (thats my mental state…to answer the question earlier), its not the kind of thing thats gonna help me get better.

now, i know many of you have not said directly what i said above, but im sure many of you have been invited out by friends/family or something along the line and had to come up with a lie cuz of your eating every 2-3 hours and going to the gym. and b/c of it, th people in your life have wondered (if they dont already know) why you’re being a recluse.

i enjoy bodybuilding, but not at the expense of the people i care about. if thats what it takes…

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[quote]forbes wrote:
derek wrote:
forbes wrote:
greekdawg wrote:

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

and how do you manage that? you must be in the gym every day then. sorry, but i don’t (or won’t) have that kind of time on my hands.

Don’t take this the wrong way but “bodybuilding” to us means making sacrifices to build the biggest muscular body possible. We make the time if we need to and sacrifice other things in our lives to see that it gets done.

This is more than a hobby to us. Hitting the gym 5 days per week is not that unusual to many of us.

now, im not trying to be rude or anything, but do those sacrifices mean blowing off friends and family? to me, those are THE most important things in life, and NOTHING (not even my physique) comes first. there’s more to life than this.

i suppose then this is our largest difference. im willing to make some sacrifices, BUT if going to the gym requires me to say “sorry guys, can’t make it out tonight, i have to go to the gym, and frankly, it’s more important than you” or

“sorry mom and dad, but i know that you guys serve unhealthy food, so im not gonna come over unless you change your mind and make chicken and rice”.

i know how this bodybuilding gig can be. obsessive. self-conscious. reclusive. for someone who’s getting help already from being a social phobic and OCD (thats my mental state…to answer the question earlier), its not the kind of thing thats gonna help me get better.

now, i know many of you have not said directly what i said above, but im sure many of you have been invited out by friends/family or something along the line and had to come up with a lie cuz of your eating every 2-3 hours and going to the gym. and b/c of it, th people in your life have wondered (if they dont already know) why you’re being a recluse.

i enjoy bodybuilding, but not at the expense of the people i care about. if thats what it takes…[/quote]

Since when has training for an intense hour a day and eating properly become slavery as you make it out to be?

145

working two jobs and going to school…no, i cant make it to the gym for an hour a day. thats un-bloody likely.

146

ditto for eating every 2-3 hours

147

[quote]forbes wrote:
working two jobs and going to school…no, i cant make it to the gym for an hour a day. thats un-bloody likely.[/quote]

Ok, so if you can’t dedicate time to train properly, why on earth would you come in hear argue TBT’s superiority to split training?

148

[quote]forbes wrote:
ditto for eating every 2-3 hours[/quote]

Did you ever think that bodybuilding just isn’t for you?

You seem to have failed the two most important factors in physical self-improvement.

Too busy to train AND too busy to eat?

How about collecting Star Wars memorabelia and leave bodybuilding to those more dedicated?

Seriously though, why would you even post here?

And by the way, I’d like to think that family would understand that I need to hit the gym for all of one of 24 hours per day several times per week, and would also understand my desire to not eat shit food. I know MY family does.

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[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Professor X wrote:

If these are the types attracted to TBT in majority, why does Waterbury even mention bodybuilding at all?

Because he suffers from delusion.[/quote]

In one of his articles - I believe it was the ungainly named ANTI-bodybuilding Hypertrophy one - Waterbury tells a short story of how a colleague of his recommended and suggested that he could revolutionize bodybuilding.

I don’t think this ever happened because, since the publishing of that article, bodybuilding training has not been revolutionized.

I still cannot understand why Waterbury mentions the words bodybuilding and bodybuilders in his articles and why there are photographs of bodybuilders in his articles being that:

  1. he doesn’t like bodybuilding, or at least expresses that he is not fond of it and

  2. that no successful bodybuilders regularly train in the way that he suggests.

A rather comical article written on here was a roundtable discussion amongst Chris Shugart, CT, Waterbury, and Alwyn Cosgrove. In the article, for good reason, CT makes the claim that splits are superior for bodybuilding purposes.

Waterbury, out of nowhere, then states that fighters who followed split routines were chronically injured. What kind of argument is this? If a guy is a fighter, then train like a fighter. Why use bodybuilding strength training in doing so?

Another thing that is getting me sick on the internet and in real life is the term “in shape”. In shape for WHAT?! Right now, I am about 15% bodyfat, probably a little bit on the high side for a non-competing bodybuilder, but this past year and half has been my most successful training time since starting.

A friend of mine often states that I am not in shape, that I cannot play several rounds of hoops or tennis and that I couldn’t run a mile in under 7 minutes. My view is that I AM in shape, IN SHAPE for bodybuilding! Since when is being in shape only defined in terms of endurance?!

My favorite is when pencil-necked trainers subtley try to both insult and commend bodybuilders by often stating "I give them respect for all they do. They are definitely dedicated to their craft.

But if you get them on the playing field…" The last time I checked, bodybuilders don’t compete on a field. They compete by posing on a stage. I did also like when a rather smart-assed though competent trainer and writer on this site - one whose articles happen to be great for strength training and injury prevention - used italics when using the word compete when discussing bodybuilders, as if he was poking fun at all of us.

Let’s see…

Oh, another favorite of mine, one that I chronically speak of: “women don’t like guys that are ‘too big’”. I always thought this one was quite comical since nearly every guy that I have seen or know personally that is ‘too big’ nearly always has a woman.

I will be at the Jones Beach USA (www.jonesbeachusa.com) next week. I will be on the look-out for all of the nose picking, socially inept, womanless, lonely ‘too-big’ guys there.

TC often writes about this social phenomenon, one which simply is not true. Granted, some women do not like muscularly obese men. Some women also don’t like short guys, fat guys, arrogant guys, rich guys, poor guys, middle class guys, guys that wear glasses, nerds, etc.

Shit, some women do not even want to date good looking, though not ugly men, believing that a “hot” guy is way too much trouble for them! However, there are also women that DO like all of these types of men as well! If I meet a woman that doesn’t like my religion (bodybuilding), I peace-out!

Oh, another one. I can’t help myself today since I just had a maniacl back workout a few hours ago. "I need X type of training since my clients need performance! I’m all about performance.

My guys are fighters! Performance, schmerformance!" When I watch a video of Skip La Cour, Dorian Yates - especially Yates, Mike Francois, or Ronnie Coleman, I am seeing people perform! Yates claimed that he strived to outperform his last workout for a bodypart at EVERY workout, aside from his back-off weeks.
Something he even had trouble doing, backing off! In my book, he was a performer.

Shit, I’ve gone off tangent here. I couldn’t help myself.

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[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
forbes wrote:
working two jobs and going to school…no, i cant make it to the gym for an hour a day. thats un-bloody likely.

Ok, so if you can’t dedicate time to train properly, why on earth would you come in hear argue TBT’s superiority to split training?[/quote]

This is the one question I would love to hear an answer to. You have guys who are NOT trying to make much progress arguing about what’s optimal? This one won’t even dedicate the time to eat and train in ways that actually provide OPTIMAL results so why the fuck are they here arguing about Waterbury?

If doing the things in your personal life that lead to results are things you aren’t willing to do, what the fuck difference does it make what you do in the gym? You will never see “optimal” results and are just taking up space.

TBT does not seem to attract a host of “winners”. It seems to attract a bunch of whining fanboys who think an hour in a day is too much of a sacrifice.

I think the path is clear to anyone not blind to it.

151

But guys, devoting 4-5 x week to lifting and eating every 3 hrs is insane. Who can squeeze that into their busy lives?
I mean, if you find the time you probably can’t have time to hang out with friends or be in a relationship. /sarcasm

Amazing how people equate devotion in the gym and kitchen with a lack of social life.

152

I totally lost the respect to TBT in this thread. Some random guy who has no time to workout and is saying that bbuilding inst important for him, who trys to argue over guys who see results and over practically every big guy in the world. Just fucking ridiculous. He probably read in some article that TBT is superior…

153

[quote]Professor X wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
forbes wrote:
working two jobs and going to school…no, i cant make it to the gym for an hour a day. thats un-bloody likely.

Ok, so if you can’t dedicate time to train properly, why on earth would you come in hear argue TBT’s superiority to split training?

This is the one question I would love to hear an answer to. You have guys who are NOT trying to make much progress arguing about what’s optimal? This one won’t even dedicate the time to eat and train in ways that actually provide OPTIMAL results so why the fuck are they here arguing about Waterbury?

If doing the things in your personal life that lead to results are things you aren’t willing to do, what the fuck difference does it make what you do in the gym? You will never see “optimal” results and are just taking up space.

TBT does not seem to attract a host of “winners”. It seems to attract a bunch of whining fanboys who think an hour in a day is too much of a sacrifice.

I think the path is clear to anyone not blind to it.[/quote]

Well its obvious, you cant do a split which only works 3x per week. Of course you wont make the gains. Not enough volume, not enough good food.

I think we’ve hit the nail on the head here. TBT works with these guys because they strive to be Mens Health cover models. You dont NEED a split to get to that level.

But thats not bodybuilding. So I think we’re talking about different things here.

Just a quick case study here. My brother works out. He also played a lot of american football here in the UK. Recently, he was signed to a US team on their practice squad (linebacker).

Considering the training involved before he went over, he had a very active social life and never had an issue with the family “cooking decent food”.

I myself have a very busy worklife as a programmer, often not finishing until very late. I train and train hard. I eat many times a day and have organised my life around the things I want to do.

I even have a girlfriend (whom I’ve managed to help by schooling her in training an nutrition based on what I’ve learned. She even sneaks a read of MD whenever I get a copy). Its not that hard anymore. It becomes natural after while.

Besides, its about what goals you want for yourself. I want to be successful in my worklife and I’m making that happen. I also want to improve my appearance and I’m working on that too.

If some of the guys here only want to train a little because it interferes with higher priorities in their lives thats fine. Me? I like to lift really heavy weights.

And go to the cinema (Dark Knight was amazing. Hellboy next week). And have sex. Lots of sex. All without the aid of time displacement equipment.

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By the way, about how pointless arguing this stuff is on the internet:

A LOT of my ideas about training have changed because of “pointless” arguments like this. I don’t have any bodybuilding role-models in my personal life so discussions like this and hearing what guys who are actually muscular do is very helpful.

155

[quote]Neebone wrote:

Well its obvious, you cant do a split which only works 3x per week. Of course you wont make the gains. Not enough volume, not enough good food.
[/quote]

you dont think you can make gains with a split working out 3x a week?

and to whoever said they hit each body part 3x a week with a split and calves 6x a week whats your routine like?

156

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Neebone wrote:

Well its obvious, you cant do a split which only works 3x per week. Of course you wont make the gains. Not enough volume, not enough good food.

you dont think you can make gains with a split working out 3x a week?

[/quote]

that’s what I was doing for a while when I began my bulk.

Back, Chest, Legs

only in the past 2 months or so did I add in an arm day.

157

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Neebone wrote:

Well its obvious, you cant do a split which only works 3x per week. Of course you wont make the gains. Not enough volume, not enough good food.

you dont think you can make gains with a split working out 3x a week?

and to whoever said they hit each body part 3x a week with a split and calves 6x a week whats your routine like?

[/quote]

My sarcasm wasnt obvious. A TBT workout is a requirement dont you know :wink:

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I have extensive experience with both, more so with split routines.

There are certain times when TBT has it’s place. For example, limited training time per week, newbies trying to learn complex movements, “change of pace”, etc.

Too many here just don’t use their God-given brains. You realize that when you train on a split routine with bodyparts being trained greater than once/week, your body doesn’t know the difference between that and TBT. On a physiological level there probably isn’t a huge amount of difference.

And no, I’m definately not a Waterbury/TBT fanboy. If pure bodybuilding with primary concerns on form over function, splits are the obvious choice backed by years of scientific and real-world data.

EFFORT is the key. Everything else is just secondary.

159

[quote]forbes wrote:
greekdawg wrote:

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

and how do you manage that? you must be in the gym every day then. sorry, but i don’t (or won’t) have that kind of time on my hands.[/quote]

So then why are you here posting in the bodybuilding section? This is a bodybuilding website remember?

Yes, I work out 6 days a week, and I actually like working out, some of us here actually enjoy it. I don’t just sit on here running off at the mouth about bs and don’t actually work out.

You say you don’t have time, every person on planet earth has the same 24 hrs in each. Many people on here work out 5-6 days a week and still have normal lives, its called dedication and time management. For example, X is a frigging doctor for christsakes and still works out 6 days a week.

And I’m sure you spend many many hours a week jacking off to porn, playing your Xbox, and watching TV. You could use that time to work out and eat properly.

You don’t have time to workout, you don’t have time to eat properly? Sounds like you are full of excuses and need another one to rationalize your 2-3 times a week workouts. Good luck with building anything with that type of dedication. Why even work out? Why are you here?

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i didnt say i dont train. EVERY time i step foot in the gym, i give it my all.

and i can see the argument as to why TBT “sucks” to all (or most) of you. Not enough volume per muscle group. however, if im hitting a muscle group with 6 sets (for larger ones) and 2-3 for smaller ones,

and many of those sets are taken to beyond failure (all sets taken to beyond failure for smaller muscle groups), then i dont need a high amount of volume for a muscle group.

the intensiveness (coupled with constant progression) will lead to growth. the use of rest-paise, statics and negatives will induce significant microtrauma. any more and i’d burn out. so far, i have not burnt out.

for the record, im not a CW fanboy. i disagree with some of the things he says, specifically about failure training. but i do agre with some things as well.