I’d just like to tell the OP everytime I see the title of this thread I get irritated and want to throw stuff at the monitor.
Threads like these frequently become the OP’s last thread on T-Nation. Anyone notice that? A relatively moderate poster (in terms of number of posts) starts a controversial thread and it becomes his last thread.
not always, but I’ve noticed it before.
I like TBT too and it has a place, but think that the inroads needed into muscle stress needed to get even bigger would require more work and more recovery. So a split over several days, meaning each area trained 1-2 times a week, makes sense. It’s what I’ve noticed in others.
I can see what got others on their way at various stages in the journey and learn from them.
Look and learn.
[quote]gswork wrote:
Threads like these frequently become the OP’s last thread on tnation. Anyone notice that? A relatively moderate poster (in terms of number of posts) starts a controversial thread and it becomes his last thread.
[/quote]
So people dont like what you said. Should you care? No. Shouldnt be a reason to leave. You just lost this discussion. Big deal.
Unless you’ve been an ass.
[quote]derek wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
This forum, to me, should be for the exchange of ideas.
Yes, and it IS.
But when the “idea” presented in this thread–and I quote–starts with “Are Bodypart Splits Useless?” you have to wonder.[/quote]
The reason I started this thread was because I personally believe that if you want to build serious muscle then you have to do splits. Because I tried TBT for a short period. And it exhausts you, because you do so much in one session BUT I didn’t ever feel like I was sufficiently hitting the various muscle groups.
So I went back to splits and never looked back. Of late, I keep coming across articles promoting TBT for muscle and the majority of these article slate splits as inferior. I feel TBT has it’s place but more in the sports arena. IMO if you want to build muscle do splits.
I think the mens health type lifters have given splits a bad name. Because there are alot of guys in the gym who do splits but they shy away from the big compounds (except for bench ofcourse) So if all you are doing is isolation you not gonna build muscle. That’s probably where TBT will benefit these guys.
Damn I feel like going to train now. But I have to work 1st
That would suggest that if you dont train correctly, TBT will give you better gains - seeing as you’re forced into doing squats/chins/dips/rows/etc to obtain any kind of serious gains.
It basically means that splits arent being done properly for those who HAVE tried spilts and failed (the majority that is).
For those who havent tried splits, then its whatever reasoning they are using (gains when training a bodypart only once a week) that is making them discount splits.
[quote]Neebone wrote:
Because there are alot of guys in the gym who do splits but they shy away from the big compounds (except for bench ofcourse) So if all you are doing is isolation you not gonna build muscle. That’s probably where TBT will benefit these guys.
That would suggest that if you dont train correctly, TBT will give you better gains - seeing as you’re forced into doing squats/chins/dips/rows/etc to obtain any kind of serious gains.
It basically means that splits arent being done properly for those who HAVE tried spilts and failed (the majority that is).
For those who havent tried splits, then its whatever reasoning they are using (gains when training a bodypart only once a week) that is making them discount splits.
[/quote]
I wonder if they even really know what a split is.
I mean, there are different kinds, ya know.
People seem to hate the one bodypart per day once per week kind… But that’s not the only template available…
And even then, it’s proven it’s effectiveness countless times over…
Always being fresh when training a bodypart helps make the weight increases/rep increases easier, and you don’t need much time off (no week off or deloading) unless you use lots of beyond-failure techniques…
That is why he doesn’t get the respect other writers get around here. If anyone else said it I would think it was sarcasm but I am afraid he was serious.
Pro BB train the hell out of lagging bodyparts, whatever they may be. Not much room to do that in a TBT routine.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
forbes wrote:
and many of you will REALLY hate me for doing this (above and beyond the hate towards me now), but i must quote something CW said in the training split roundtable:
"Professional bodybuilders typically don’t follow total body routines because they don’t need to. If I’m born with the natural ability to drop into the full splits, I’m not going to spend my time stretching my adductors and hamstrings. And if I’m born with the ability to build huge quads, calves, and traps with minimal training, then I’m not going to spend my time training them either.
That is why he doesn’t get the respect other writers get around here. If anyone else said it I would think it was sarcasm but I am afraid he was serious.
Pro BB train the hell out of lagging bodyparts, whatever they may be. Not much room to do that in a TBT routine.[/quote]
That quote was such complete bullshit anyway…
If that man would only stick to HIS field of experience, instead of trying to take over other areas where he clearly does not belong…
Out of curiosity, anybody know how successful he’s been at training the Gracies? Do they still work together?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
forbes wrote:
and many of you will REALLY hate me for doing this (above and beyond the hate towards me now), but i must quote something CW said in the training split roundtable:
"Professional bodybuilders typically don’t follow total body routines because they don’t need to. If I’m born with the natural ability to drop into the full splits, I’m not going to spend my time stretching my adductors and hamstrings. And if I’m born with the ability to build huge quads, calves, and traps with minimal training, then I’m not going to spend my time training them either.
That is why he doesn’t get the respect other writers get around here. If anyone else said it I would think it was sarcasm but I am afraid he was serious.
Pro BB train the hell out of lagging bodyparts, whatever they may be. Not much room to do that in a TBT routine.[/quote]
He doesn’t handle himself too well when confronted directly on that issue either.
I truly don’t see what the allure is to someone like that on a site like this (especially to the degree some of these guys defend everything he writes)…other than there being quite a few people who don’t want to train much in the first place so they latch onto any routine that allows them fewer trips to the gym and hold it as sacred.
[quote]silverbullet wrote:
The reason I started this thread was because I personally believe that if you want to build serious muscle then you have to do splits.
I think the mens health type lifters have given splits a bad name.
[/quote]
I think you started this thread is to stir the pot…again…
You started this in is a sport that you would want to do splits in because your goal would be that of building massive muscle and have the time and devotion to workout 5+ days.
I was in that mode for most of my 15+ years of working out. I just changed to TBT about 4 months ago, not because splits stopped working…but because my life and goals changed and I dont have the time to devote to this type of split any more…
So if I am wrong about the reason you started this thread then here is the application that I would suggest from my experince using the TBT so far… toward the bodybuilder…I would suggest using this more on the cutting phase before a show to cut bodyfat. You will not lose any muscle you gained to this point. If you still have some trouble spots I would add a couple of sets at the end of hte TBT workout…
As you know you need to give a workout at least 6 weeks before you can say it is working or not…So for a bodybuilder 6 weeks out… I would suggest switching to a modified TBT specific to your goals. I would like to see how this would work…I would follow that thread…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
He doesn’t handle himself too well when confronted directly on that issue either.
I truly don’t see what the allure is to someone like that on a site like this (especially to the degree some of these guys defend everything he writes)…other than there being quite a few people who don’t want to train much in the first place so they latch onto any routine that allows them fewer trips to the gym and hold it as sacred.[/quote]
not that i agree with him, but he has made a lot of routines where your in the gym 4-5x a week and some where your in there 8+ times a week which i find pretty ridiculous
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
He doesn’t handle himself too well when confronted directly on that issue either.
I truly don’t see what the allure is to someone like that on a site like this (especially to the degree some of these guys defend everything he writes)…other than there being quite a few people who don’t want to train much in the first place so they latch onto any routine that allows them fewer trips to the gym and hold it as sacred.
not that i agree with him, but he has made a lot of routines where your in the gym 4-5x a week and some where your in there 8+ times a week which i find pretty ridiculous
[/quote]
He just wants to “go against the grain” so that newbies think he’s cool and has a better way.
[quote]BigE05 wrote:
silverbullet wrote:
The reason I started this thread was because I personally believe that if you want to build serious muscle then you have to do splits.
I think the mens health type lifters have given splits a bad name.
I think you started this thread is to stir the pot…again…
You started this in is a sport that you would want to do splits in because your goal would be that of building massive muscle and have the time and devotion to workout 5+ days.
I was in that mode for most of my 15+ years of working out. I just changed to TBT about 4 months ago, not because splits stopped working…but because my life and goals changed and I dont have the time to devote to this type of split any more…
So if I am wrong about the reason you started this thread then here is the application that I would suggest from my experince using the TBT so far… toward the bodybuilder…I would suggest using this more on the cutting phase before a show to cut bodyfat. You will not lose any muscle you gained to this point. If you still have some trouble spots I would add a couple of sets at the end of hte TBT workout…
As you know you need to give a workout at least 6 weeks before you can say it is working or not…So for a bodybuilder 6 weeks out… I would suggest switching to a modified TBT specific to your goals. I would like to see how this would work…I would follow that thread…
[/quote]
…and I think it makes little sense to change what has BUILT that muscle when your goal is to diet down and hold onto as much of it as possible.
If someone can ONLY train three days a week, they need to first accept that their gains may not be “optimal” to start with because they don’t have enough time dedicated towards it.
It really comes down to how badly you want to see progress. If you want it bad enough, you will train whichever way produces the best results, even if that means making it to the gym six days a week. Anything else is second best or worse.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
He doesn’t handle himself too well when confronted directly on that issue either.
I truly don’t see what the allure is to someone like that on a site like this (especially to the degree some of these guys defend everything he writes)…other than there being quite a few people who don’t want to train much in the first place so they latch onto any routine that allows them fewer trips to the gym and hold it as sacred.
not that i agree with him, but he has made a lot of routines where your in the gym 4-5x a week and some where your in there 8+ times a week which i find pretty ridiculous
[/quote]
I personally don’t go searching for his articles so my only presentation of what he seems to be writing is when others quote him in other threads (and in that one thread where he debated with me but then threw a tantrum and had the whole thread removed). I haven’t seen a quote yet that sounded like it made much sense.
All of the statements he makes like this (which he has stated are often just to cause controversy and stir the pot) are the very ones newbies take as statements of absolute truth…like that ‘bodybuilders can’t climb stairs’ comment.
That quote in this thread is so ridiculous that I am surprised newbies are so backwards that they actually believe big muscles are built with MINIMAL effort.
On that point, to anyone just picking up a weight, no one gets muscular arms over 20" without putting in more time and effort than most on this site could ever put together in several years. The attempt to deny this should be laughed at and ridiculed…no matter who the fuck wrote the statement.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If these are the types attracted to TBT in majority, why does Waterbury even mention bodybuilding at all?
Because he suffers from delusion.[/quote]
Because he is selling something.
[quote]forbes wrote:
working two jobs and going to school…no, i cant make it to the gym for an hour a day. thats un-bloody likely.[/quote]
If you cannot find the time to put in the work then why are you arguing?
TBT may be the best choice in your situation, but it is not the best for people willing to put in the effort and do more.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
On that point, to anyone just picking up a weight, no one gets muscular arms over 20" without putting in more time and effort than most on this site could ever put together in several years. The attempt to deny this should be laughed at and ridiculed…no matter who the fuck wrote the statement.[/quote]
Yup.
The only three guys at my gym which hae arms around and over the 20" mark have been training for 10-15years at least.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
That quote in this thread is so ridiculous that I am surprised newbies are so backwards that they actually believe big muscles are built with MINIMAL effort.
On that point, to anyone just picking up a weight, no one gets muscular arms over 20" without putting in more time and effort than most on this site could ever put together in several years. The attempt to deny this should be laughed at and ridiculed…no matter who the fuck wrote the statement.[/quote]
TBT 3X a week does not mean Minimal effort…Shit my DLs are still over 400 on my work sets…it just means instead of resting min and half between sets it means you will catch your breath from a set of DLs then to set of standing military press of 185…I hope that is not the preseption of the TBT as minimal effort…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BigE05 wrote:
silverbullet wrote:
The reason I started this thread was because I personally believe that if you want to build serious muscle then you have to do splits.
I think the mens health type lifters have given splits a bad name.
I think you started this thread is to stir the pot…again…
You started this in is a sport that you would want to do splits in because your goal would be that of building massive muscle and have the time and devotion to workout 5+ days.
I was in that mode for most of my 15+ years of working out. I just changed to TBT about 4 months ago, not because splits stopped working…but because my life and goals changed and I dont have the time to devote to this type of split any more…
So if I am wrong about the reason you started this thread then here is the application that I would suggest from my experince using the TBT so far… toward the bodybuilder…I would suggest using this more on the cutting phase before a show to cut bodyfat. You will not lose any muscle you gained to this point. If you still have some trouble spots I would add a couple of sets at the end of hte TBT workout…
As you know you need to give a workout at least 6 weeks before you can say it is working or not…So for a bodybuilder 6 weeks out… I would suggest switching to a modified TBT specific to your goals. I would like to see how this would work…I would follow that thread…
…and I think it makes little sense to change what has BUILT that muscle when your goal is to diet down and hold onto as much of it as possible.
If someone can ONLY train three days a week, they need to first accept that their gains may not be “optimal” to start with because they don’t have enough time dedicated towards it.
It really comes down to how badly you want to see progress. If you want it bad enough, you will train whichever way produces the best results, even if that means making it to the gym six days a week. Anything else is second best or worse.[/quote]
Even training only three days a week can provide great and very fast(as “fast” as one can build muscle, that is) results on a split…
Both the DC beginner’s version and the regular 2-way are three days a week and are very obviously working, same for the original WS4SB routine (if I’m not mistaken).
(I don’t want to drag DC into every argument here, I’m just providing examples.)
So considering that, I totally fail to understand the 3 times a week full body for people with limited time -craze.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I personally don’t go searching for his articles so my only presentation of what he seems to be writing is when others quote him in other threads (and in that one thread where he debated with me but then threw a tantrum and had the whole thread removed). I haven’t seen a quote yet that sounded like it made much sense.
[/quote]
he actually had it deleted? Thats too bad i would have wanted to read that, was it also dealing with TBT vs. Splits?