Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
121

[quote]forbes wrote:
if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?

it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE!

powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some.

when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.

these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.

start the base by working a muscle/movement often with less volume, then bring up the volume but work it less often.

nuff said.[/quote]

I have to bench 600lbs before I ever use a split routine?

Why speak on shit that you are clearly in the dark about? You are a fanboy trying to justify something you’ve read from a trainer. No one is impressed, especially since that quote you posted from Waterbury isn’t just FLAT WRONG, but if the man actually follows bodybuilding at all, it is a FUCKING LIE.

What person who actually follows bodybuilding thinks pro’s avoid training legs (aside from MINIMAL training) since they are genetically gifted?

You are speaking to people who have used splits from the start and trying to force us to believe that our gains were imaginary just so you can prove that ridiculous quote correct?

122

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:
if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?

it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE!

powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some. when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.

these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.

start the base by working a muscle/movement often with less volume, then bring up the volume but work it less often.

nuff said.

I have to bench 600lbs before I ever use a split routine?

Why speak on shit that you are clearly in the dark about? You are a fanboy trying to justify something you’ve read from a trainer. No one is impressed, especially since that quote you posted from Waterbury isn’t just FLAT WRONG, but if the man actually follows bodybuilding at all, it is a FUCKING LIE.

What person who actually follows bodybuilding thinks pro’s avoid training legs (aside from MINIMAL training) since they are genetically gifted?

You are speaking to people who have used splits from the start and trying to force us to believe that our gains were imaginary just so you can prove that ridiculous quote correct?[/quote]

Anyone else notice that forbes is now very, very alone with his argument here ?

123

[quote]forbes wrote:
if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?.[/quote]

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

[quote]forbes wrote:
it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE!

powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some. when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.

these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.
.[/quote]

Wow, so all powerlifters are advanced?

The first day I started powerlifting, weak as fuck, we used split routines. Why do you think it only applies to elite or top level lifters/bb’ers? If something works, it generally will work beginners, intermediates, and advnced lifters/bb’ers.

Your logic is very very flawed.

124

seems like quite a few here are representing their opinion as fact. A few have the experience to back up their statements. Has anyone changed their mind since reading through this and perhaps the other 1 or 2, MAYBE MORE threads on this topic?

125

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have to bench 600lbs before I ever use a split routine?

[/quote]

Hahahaaha. Just think how ludicrous that sounds. 99% of the people in the world will never be that strong so that means everybody should be doing a TBT style program.

126

What gets me is that nobody listens to logic. I guarentee that if everybody on this site who is dedicated and has made some serious progress posts the type of routine they use it would be almost like reading a thread of copy and pasted posts.

Most people would be using a bodypart split hitting each muscle once per week maybe twice. Lagging bodyparts would have more emphasis, but the general trend would be no TBT replies.

Now I’ve never used TBT but can tell anybody that I am certain my muscles are benefitting much more from split training. There is no way I could bench using over 300 pounds for my reps three times a week and not get an injury.

I’m sore for almost a week after leg workouts and not a single muscle of mine would be ready to be hit 3x per week or every other day. Fuck that.

127

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I have to bench 600lbs before I ever use a split routine?

Hahahaaha. Just think how ludicrous that sounds. 99% of the people in the world will never be that strong so that means everybody should be doing a TBT style program.

[/quote]

More like 99.999999% will never bench that haha

Forbes you sound like the guys on menshealth, the fitness forum over there thinks splits suck and full body routines done 3 times a week is what everyone should be doing, that or crossfit.

128

[quote]derek wrote:
forbes wrote:
if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?

Mostly beginners use that program.

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?

You will see weekly strength and size gains. Your body recognizes relative stresses meaning 405x8 for me may be equal to 225x8 for you. If 185 is just about killing you, then it’s going to bring about gains in both size and strength.

Do you think you’d get very far killing yourself 3x per week (even if it’s only 185) by maxing out on squats/bench/press/DL/cleans/rows?

it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE!

99% of even beginner PL routines are split-based.

powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some. when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.

So you think guys have to get to 600/700/750 to start to slpit? Where did you pull those numbers from? Who do you know that puts up those numbers that have used TBT to get there?

Just a couple names will do.

these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.

start the base by working a muscle/movement often with less volume, then bring up the volume but work it less often.

nuff said.

Again, how does one become “advanced” and how do YOU define it?

What you’re saying SOUNDS great in theory, like racing go-carts before you get to sprint cars and move up to NASCAR–baby steps, but where do you see bodybuilders (this IS a bodybuilding forum) needing this?

How many really well-developed (VERY BIG) guys do you personally know that did this? Probably exactly none. Does that somehow mean what thousands of guys that are currently huge did the impossible? Or perhaps this whole “split thing” guys have been doing for dozens of years might just have some merrit?

[/quote]

Awesome post.
I really wish I had a “you got served” picture…

129

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
derek wrote:
forbes wrote:
if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?

Mostly beginners use that program.

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?

You will see weekly strength and size gains. Your body recognizes relative stresses meaning 405x8 for me may be equal to 225x8 for you. If 185 is just about killing you, then it’s going to bring about gains in both size and strength.

Do you think you’d get very far killing yourself 3x per week (even if it’s only 185) by maxing out on squats/bench/press/DL/cleans/rows?

it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE!

99% of even beginner PL routines are split-based.

powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some.

when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.

So you think guys have to get to 600/700/750 to start to slpit? Where did you pull those numbers from? Who do you know that puts up those numbers that have used TBT to get there?

Just a couple names will do.

these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.

start the base by working a muscle/movement often with less volume, then bring up the volume but work it less often.

nuff said.

Again, how does one become “advanced” and how do YOU define it?

What you’re saying SOUNDS great in theory, like racing go-carts before you get to sprint cars and move up to NASCAR–baby steps, but where do you see bodybuilders (this IS a bodybuilding forum) needing this?

How many really well-developed (VERY BIG) guys do you personally know that did this? Probably exactly none. Does that somehow mean what thousands of guys that are currently huge did the impossible? Or perhaps this whole “split thing” guys have been doing for dozens of years might just have some merrit?

Awesome post.
I really wish I had a “you got served” picture…[/quote]

x2

130

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
seems like quite a few here are representing their opinion as fact. A few have the experience to back up their statements. Has anyone changed their mind since reading through this and perhaps the other 1 or 2, MAYBE MORE threads on this topic?[/quote]

I haven’t seen too many people change their minds due to other peoples’ arguments, whether that be on internet forums or face to face.

But what can you do… The debate is going on for the umpteenth time and beginners may read this.

I’m hoping that the prevalence of big guys who do splits will make something click in their heads.

131

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Awesome post.
I really wish I had a “you got served” picture…

x2[/quote]

I’m blushing!

I have said this many times… I’d rather train TBT full-time because I enjoy it. More specifically I enjoy the “20 rep squats and milk routines”. I also like to get back-to-basics with the Bill Starr 5x5 once per year.

If this is how forbes feels about training programs–that he simply enjoys it more–that’s fine. But to claim TBT is best for awe-inspiring growth, then spend so much energy trying to support that claim is just silly.

When the title to a thread has Splits and Useless in the same sentence I go berserk.

I pray that these people aren’t on any Homicide Detective squad anytime soon.

Please stop blatantly ignoring the evidence. The sooner you do, the bigger you’ll get.

132

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:

to the split people: dont discredit the many successful body builders of old times past. many of them built great physiques with total body workout plans. even mike mentzer did.

and even though his training philosophy was crazy near the end of his career, he still built an amazing body early on using the TBT method.

I thought Mentzer built nearly all of the size training just like everyone else. It wasn’t until LATER that he changed his style of training AFTER he was already big. Even then, are people calling HIT “total body training” now?

[/quote]

Mentzer trained in his prime using a split. Refer to some books outling his training and endless articles about him in Ironman magazine. Also refer to his book, written by HIM! He trained using a three way split over 7 days.

He trained back, bis one day, chest, shoulder, triceps on another day, and legs on another day with very low volume. Even in HD 2, he outlines this split.

However, this time it was reduced to a ridiculous routine consisting of a 3 way split spread over FIFTEEN FUCKING DAYS! That’s right, a frequency of training each muscle group once every 15 days. Yet it was still a split routine.

133

“When a person looks for evidence of his belief with a desire to find it then he will find what he is looking for. Even if the evidence supports a falsehood the seeker will believe it until he drops his preconceived notions and looks with fresh eyes.”

134

I think most people take this TBT vs Split debate too seriously. I doubt anyone besides this forum worries that much about that…

If you think, O lifters that are “tbt guys” sometimes can do only lower body in a workout, what would make a split day. And some BBers on split workouts like DC, can do deads, presses and pulldowns in the same session that would make it a tbt day. And none of them gives a shit about that. They dont care about rotulate their training.

I like tbt workouts a lot , and had most of my gains doing it, but recently i felt i needed to go for a upper/lower split because i’m doing a lot of fighting stuff and was not recovering from tbt, and now i’m growing/getting stronger again.

So i’m not sure why you should choose one like a religion and much less dislike people (i see this debates getting prety much personal)because they train differently.

135

it would be hilarious if Waterbury threw a post down. really curious how he would combat this diatribe focused on TBT.

I myself am somewhat neutral. I have seen results in both but like splits more. Kinda got burned out on TBT and bored.

136

Of course if you lift weights you’re (likely, all things being equal) to put on mass. Thats not really under dispute. The argument is about the most efficient way to put that mass on. And from the evidence, that method would be a split routine.

Its not that TBT is shit, its not. People make gains. But the biggest gains come from splits as evident by the biggest guys.

137

What I’m interested in is the psychology of the anti-split mentality like that of forbes. What’s behind it? What do they have invested in it?

138

[quote]brancron wrote:
What I’m interested in is the psychology of the anti-split mentality like that of forbes. What’s behind it? What do they have invested in the matter?[/quote]

Hero-worship?

Cultists?

Lunatic Fanboys?

139

[quote]greekdawg wrote:

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

[/quote]

and how do you manage that? you must be in the gym every day then. sorry, but i don’t (or won’t) have that kind of time on my hands.

140

[quote]forbes wrote:
greekdawg wrote:

Who where is advocating that? I use splits and hit my muscles 3 times a week minimum for chest/back/quads/hams and 6 times a week for calves, and smaller muscles.

and how do you manage that? you must be in the gym every day then. sorry, but i don’t (or won’t) have that kind of time on my hands.[/quote]

Don’t take this the wrong way but “bodybuilding” to us means making sacrifices to build the biggest muscular body possible. We make the time if we need to and sacrifice other things in our lives to see that it gets done.

This is more than a hobby to us. Hitting the gym 5 days per week is not that unusual to many of us.