Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

Is this akin to saying "fuck the methods of Warren Buffet and Peter Lynch inre to investing…I went to a free site that says to…

[/quote]

I think it’s worse. When it comes to bodybuilding, they seem to be trying really hard to discredit both the knowledge and the effort that the top guys have by making statements implying that the more muscle someone has, the LESS they know about how to get big.

Only a smaller person could come up with something like that. I am still laughing at that Waterbury quote. There are people walking around who think you get 36" quads with MINIMAL training?

LOL.

Has anyone here seen an old tape of Tom Platz training his legs? I doubt anyone here would deny that he was extremely genetically gifted yet he trained those legs like his life depended on it. For someone like Waterbury to come along and act as if this doesn’t happen only shows how disconnected he is from bodybuilding…on a bodybuilding site.

And they follow it like it is straight from the mouth of God. No wonder most of them are also the smaller people on this site.

102

I suggest that all the people trying to bodybuild by doing tbt be put on a 7 days a week, 10 exercises per bodypart per session, 20 sets per exercise split.

This way, they will have no time to read stupid articles and give their unexperienced opinions in the internet.

103

i don’t understand were people get this idea that mentzer did tbt all the time. he did tbt with arthur jones but before jones and after jones he advocated the use of split routines and taking your last of every excercise to failure.

104

[quote]Rat Poison wrote:
i don’t understand were people get this idea that mentzer did tbt all the time. he did tbt with arthur jones but before jones and after jones he advocated the use of split routines and taking your last of every excercise to failure.[/quote]

He also personally looked his WORST while advocating HIT.

They will use pictures taken around the time that he was matching Arnold for time spent in the gym and act as if he owes it all to Ayn Rand and HIT.

105

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Rat Poison wrote:
i don’t understand were people get this idea that mentzer did tbt all the time. he did tbt with arthur jones but before jones and after jones he advocated the use of split routines and taking your last of every excercise to failure.

He also personally looked his WORST while advocating HIT.

They will use pictures taken around the time that he was matching Arnold for time spent in the gym and act as if he owes it all to Ayn Rand and HIT.[/quote]

mentzer also admitted his most productive routine was a split in which he did legs, chest and triceps on say a mon. took a day or two off then he would train back,shoulders and bi’s take a day or two off then rapeat the routine again.

106

I think bodybuilding is the only sport where people realllyyyy try to overcomplicate things. If you started the year with 150 lbs, squatting 250 lbs, DL 300lbs and benching 200lbs, and then ended the year weighing 180lbs, squatting 350 lb, DL 400lbs, and benching 300 lbs then I dont care what you’re routine was.

If you are able to do that with TBT (which I find Very unlikely) then you can do TBT. If you ask me id say what is superior to gain mass is upper/lower splits using deads, squats, dips, chins (you get the idea). Something I think is very time efficient when doing this kind of routine is to do antagonist sets (not supersets, there is rest time between them). But thats just me.

107

To dismiss split routines because the current and recent pro bodybuilders use them, would require us to dismiss full body routines because pros of the past used them.

Whether or not any of us care to look like Steve Reeves, the fact remains that he and his peers were the genetic elite of their time, just like Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler are now. All of us, whether we realize it or not, are modeling our training after these guys.

Besides, if all of us are using the same basic lifts and getting stronger/bigger, who cares how/where they placed them throughout the week?

Oh, and according to those who chronicle such goings on, Steve Reeves, Reg Park, etc., used plenty of splits.

108

if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?

it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE!

powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some. when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.

these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.

start the base by working a muscle/movement often with less volume, then bring up the volume but work it less often.

nuff said.

109

[quote]forbes wrote:

if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?
[/quote]

If you’ve just started working out and you’re 150lbs, then you should be learning how to do the lifts and yeh, TBT might be better to get you accustomed to how to lift.

But are we talking about the virgin lifters first 8 months of lifting or someone whos been working out for a couple years?

Besides, if you tax the muscles sufficiently (effort and volume) then you’d likely need 5 days to recover before you hit them again. So yes, working a movement only once every few days (7 may be too long) IS going to give good gains. How do I know this? Because the big guys have been doing it for years. The method is proven.

110

you could always try training like dorian whch is like hit and body part split combined

111

These entire discussions continue to take place because most of the weight training populous is either unable or refuses to gain confidence in their own ability to read what their body is telling them.

If you are making good progress why would you ever care whether somebody says you don’t know what you’re talking about? I’m not the biggest guy here and never will be, but I rarely talk specifics about how I train and practically never ask questions because what I’m doing is working better than anything else I’ve tried and I don’t particularly care who thinks I know what I’m doing or not.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t people here I listen to for ideas even though they may not know I’m doing it. In fact I’ll take ideas I find promising from anybody. What I won’t take is the word of people with not much more than a lot reading under their belt when they question decades of undeniable success.

TBT has it’s uses, but it is not optimal for bodybuilding, never has been and never will be. There is no reason except hero worship to defend the idea that it is which brings up another point. The fact that somebody’s wrong about something does not instantly render every word they say useless which seems to be the underlying fear.

112

[quote]forbes wrote:
if TBT sucks, then how do explain the strength and size gains achieved by those who have used ripptoe’s program, even though its such low volume?[/quote]

Mostly beginners use that program.

[quote]
if im 150lbs, and can only bench 185, squat 200 and deadlift 220, do you really think im gonna make such great gains, size and strength wise, working a particular movement pattern only once a week?[/quote]

You will see weekly strength and size gains. Your body recognizes relative stresses meaning 405x8 for me may be equal to 225x8 for you. If 185 is just about killing you, then it’s going to bring about gains in both size and strength.

Do you think you’d get very far killing yourself 3x per week (even if it’s only 185) by maxing out on squats/bench/press/DL/cleans/rows?

[quote]
it’s been said that powerlifters use a split routine. heck, even the elite athletes that charles trains. but the key word is ELITE! [/quote]

99% of even beginner PL routines are split-based.

[quote]
powerlifters are putting up big numbers already. they dont need to work a movement often since they already have a strength base, and then some. when your benching 600, squatting 700 and deadlifting 750, ya, you’re gonna find out what your weaknesses are, and thats when you “split things up”. the same goes with an ELITE athlete.[/quote]

So you think guys have to get to 600/700/750 to start to slpit? Where did you pull those numbers from? Who do you know that puts up those numbers that have used TBT to get there?

Just a couple names will do.

[quote]
these are people who are advanced, not starting out. so likewise, its the same with bodybuilders.

start the base by working a muscle/movement often with less volume, then bring up the volume but work it less often.

nuff said.[/quote]

Again, how does one become “advanced” and how do YOU define it?

What you’re saying SOUNDS great in theory, like racing go-carts before you get to sprint cars and move up to NASCAR–baby steps, but where do you see bodybuilders (this IS a bodybuilding forum) needing this?

How many really well-developed (VERY BIG) guys do you personally know that did this? Probably exactly none. Does that somehow mean what thousands of guys that are currently huge did the impossible? Or perhaps this whole “split thing” guys have been doing for dozens of years might just have some merrit?

113

This whole thing is totally retarded…
The ones arguing for tbt are the small ones here, so why don’t you just shut the fuck up?

114

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Most of the weight training populous is either unable or refuses to gain confidence in their own ability to read what their body is telling them.

[/quote]

That is such the truth. I can’t even name how many articles and stupid programs I tried throughout my youth expecting magical results. I can’t count the amount of dumb bullshit I have done because I was paranoid after some author said to do this or to not do that etc.

I listen to my body now, train when I know I will be freshest and lift how I want. I haven’t seen better gains in my life. I was stuck in a fucking plateau for months listening to rubish and now am the biggest and strongest I have ever been listening to my own body.

BTW, I train using a split and it works very well for me.

115

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

BTW, I train using a split and it works very well for me.[/quote]

How can that be? I’ve read that it’s impossible to benefit from splits unless you are ELITE (whatever that means).

116

[quote]derek wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:

BTW, I train using a split and it works very well for me.

How can that be? I’ve read that it’s impossible to benefit from splits unless you are ELITE (whatever that means).
[/quote]

Isn’t it obvious, you numbnut, he’s the TWIN BROTHER OF KEVIN LEVRONE!
I mean, just look at his avatar :wink:

On a more serious note, I really want to know the stats of those tbt people…

117

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
This whole thing is totally retarded…
The ones arguing for tbt are the small ones here, so why don’t you just shut the fuck up?
[/quote]

I agree with that too.

118

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
This whole thing is totally retarded…
The ones arguing for tbt are the small ones here, so why don’t you just shut the fuck up?
[/quote]

What are your stats? (not that im somebody who likes tbt, I also think tons of dumb shit has been said in this thread. Im just asking because you talk as if you are fucking huge)

119

[quote]derek wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:

BTW, I train using a split and it works very well for me.

How can that be? I’ve read that it’s impossible to benefit from splits unless you are ELITE (whatever that means).
[/quote]

just as ridiculous as it sounds

120

[quote]Player wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
This whole thing is totally retarded…
The ones arguing for tbt are the small ones here, so why don’t you just shut the fuck up?

What are your stats? (not that im somebody who likes tbt, I also think tons of dumb shit has been said in this thread. Im just asking because you talk as if you are fucking huge)[/quote]

At least I provide most of my stats in my profile, as opposed to you.

The reason my exact weight isn’t in there is because it’s obviously changing.

This morning I was 127Kg.