Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
Professor X wrote:
caselorance wrote:
derek wrote:
caselorance wrote:
b/c you know there’s no convincing these guys
THEY’RE FULL OF TESTOSTERONE

And you think it’s testosterone that makes us unwilling to concede?

It’s more like thousands of bodybuilders over dozens of years and all the evidence resulting thereof.

Hormone levels have nothing to do with this, it’s logic.

(let me know if I misunderstood your point above, you may be on “my” side here, I can’t tell)

I agree to a varying degree, it’s my experience that despite logic
the most testosterone one has the less likely he is to concede a proven point

example
my dad drinks
i work out
both are known to increase test
everytime i’ve gotten kicked out
was a result of us arguing after i got done with a high intensity workout
normally I would be willing to just say fuck it
but my logic was clouded by my momentary lust to be proven right

another example
my friend eric whom i consider to have more testosterone than anyone on this cite
is not the epitome of logic in any sense but he will never concede a point
even to his two best and most intelligent friends

I could be wrong there could be varying degrees of other factors
as is the case with real world examples but
that is my experience

nothing I said was meant to discredit credible sources or individuals
but you can’t really say that you’ve convince a whole lot of guys of your viewpoint on this cite and recognized their own submission to you being right… if so I’m dead wrong
if not I’ve made my point
testosterone makes arguing a point somewhat moot in my experience
the more you get someone riled up the less likely you are to hear them admit you are right
AGREED?

Did you honestly just try to claim that the more testosterone someone has the more illogical they are?

What the fuck are you smoking?

I thought he was writing a poem.[/quote]

I think he was.

Notice his lack of capitalization and punctuation in all but the first and last lines. The only exception is an occasional “I” to hint at the conflict with his inner child he’s indubitably facing.

I think it qualifies as high quality satirical free style poetry.

82

I think TBT seems to lower IQ, yet another reason for splits.

I’ll admit, I was a fan of TBT for the past few years, simply because I didn’t want to lift 4-5 x week and I was tired of EVERYONE doing splits. Figured I’d try something “better”.

TBT is fine for conditioning and fat loss.

But, if you really want to grow splits is where it’s at. You have to beat the muscle to a pulp in a short amount of time then allow it time to recover.

With TBT sure you can have equal volume throughout the week, but what many overlook is that a greater volume in a shorter period will lead to more muscle damage (the good kind).

I’m glad I’m back doing splits.

But when I start cutting, it will be TBT all the way, no doubt about it.

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forbes wrote:

to the split people: dont discredit the many successful body builders of old times past. many of them built great physiques with total body workout plans. even mike mentzer did.

and even though his training philosophy was crazy near the end of his career, he still built an amazing body early on using the TBT method.

I thought Mentzer built nearly all of the size training just like everyone else. It wasn’t until LATER that he changed his style of training AFTER he was already big. Even then, are people calling HIT “total body training” now?

[/quote]

Let’s play a numbers game.

Mentzer is often brought up in this cliche’d, dead-horse beaten debate.

Let’s just pretend, for the sake of argument that Mentzer started TBT from minute one outside the womb and built his physique that way.

Let me ask how many people have their pro-card and compete any given year (on average)? Dozens? Hundreds? More?

Since the day Mentzer became a “Pro” until today, how many other of those Pros (in his class or above) have claimed to only have used TBT?

I’d put money on that the percentage is really small-- and if you jump into the lower tiers like semi-pro/amateur and non-competitive BB, probably like statistically insignificantly small.

84

let me first say that i like splits…

but to professor X and some others do you not feel like it can matter depending on the recovery abilities of the person? I guess this isn’t so much a question about how effective splits are but more about how many here seem to set it up.

I see guys on here with 1-2 years of experience doing 12 sets per bodypart (including biceps and another 12 for tri’s, etc…) splitting their muscles up so it’s once a week. Does no one else find that ridiculous? In my opinion the routines these guys should be more focused on routines focused on less sets, more frequency (maybe every 5 days or so) and getting stronger.

that kind of goes along with TBT but would still be splits, but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.

85

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
let me first say that i like splits…

but to professor X and some others do you not feel like it can matter depending on the recovery abilities of the person? I guess this isn’t so much a question about how effective splits are but more about how many here seem to set it up.

I see guys on here with 1-2 years of experience doing 12 sets per bodypart (including biceps and another 12 for tri’s, etc…) splitting their muscles up so it’s once a week. Does no one else find that ridiculous? In my opinion the routines these guys should be more focused on routines focused on less sets, more frequency (maybe every 5 days or so) and getting stronger.

that kind of goes along with TBT but would still be splits, but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.[/quote]

do you think there’s really that much difference in people’s ability to recover? (assuming all things are equal with nutrition, rest, stress, etc)

86

I always thought alcohol consuption decreased test…

And if Mentzer was a strident TBT guy, why did he switch so quickly BACK to splits and stay that way until he died?

87

[quote]derek wrote:
I always thought alcohol consuption decreased test…

[/quote]

It does. Out of all that drivel I wasn’t about to pick it apart.

88

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
let me first say that i like splits…

but to professor X and some others do you not feel like it can matter depending on the recovery abilities of the person? I guess this isn’t so much a question about how effective splits are but more about how many here seem to set it up.

I see guys on here with 1-2 years of experience doing 12 sets per bodypart (including biceps and another 12 for tri’s, etc…) splitting their muscles up so it’s once a week. Does no one else find that ridiculous? In my opinion the routines these guys should be more focused on routines focused on less sets, more frequency (maybe every 5 days or so) and getting stronger.

that kind of goes along with TBT but would still be splits, but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.[/quote]

How can you decide for someone else whether they need less sets to stimulate growth? If they are growing from it, they are not doing it wrong.

A beginner is putting less overall stress on their bodies which means they should be able to recover even faster. In the end the only rule is that if it works, keep doing it. I have known people who made most on this site look like they don’t even workout who train for over 2 hours at a time. While I would never recommend that several days a week, he grew just fine from it.

Some of you seem more locked on what is “supposed” to happen instead of looking at what is actually producing the most results on people. Your body does not follow some preset guideline that matches everyone else on the planet specifically. No matter what approach you take, TRIAL AND ERROR is something you HAVE to go through.

89

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.[/quote]

Who even cares what the pro’s do, just look at the biggest and/or strongest men and women in gyms that lift weights to get (lots) bigger and what do you see?

Look, this is just like everything else in this world. There are proven winning formulas and the smart people that reach the top using them and then there are failures and wannabe’s using sub-optimal and unproven formulas because they are stubborn, blind or slow.

I actually ENJOY TBT (HIT style), but I wont argure that it’s the fastest path to getting huge because it’s NOT.

90

How about getting up at 5am every other day for 2 years and max effort dead, squat, bench, then come back to this thread and tell us how splits suck.

Where did all these bodybuilding.com people come from?

91

[quote]derek wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.

Who even cares what the pro’s do, just look at the biggest and/or strongest men and women in gyms that lift weights to get (lots) bigger and what do you see?

Look, this is just like everything else in this world. There are proven winning formulas and the smart people that reach the top using them and then there are failures and wannabe’s using sub-optimal and unproven formulas because they are stubborn, blind or slow.

I actually ENJOY TBT (HIT style), but I wont argure that it’s the fastest path to getting huge because it’s NOT.[/quote]

It’s like it hurts to say, “the biggest bodybuilders may actually know what works to get that big”.

If I can look around and most of the people doing one thing are much smaller on average, why would I follow it?

Why are there 6’3" people who weigh 220lbs who DON’T want to make much progress logging in to tell us what is optimal?

Does this shit really make sense to people? They just ignore the most muscular people around and follow those who have made the least progress? Why would anyone do this?

92

Do the ardent TBT fans here think it’s odd that I really enjoy TBT and practice it fairly often yet I will go to my grave telling you if you want to dedicate yourself to getting huge, DO SPLITS?

If so, it’s because I know better.

(p.s., I also like to buy the cheapest piece of crap 4x4 and see how many tough trails I can get it down. I also understand that a well-built, late-model Jeep Wrangler would do a MUCH better job at it. That’s because I’m not dumb and I readily admit that I like to try futile, irrational things just for the hell of it.)

93

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How can you decide for someone else whether they need less sets to stimulate growth? If they are growing from it, they are not doing it wrong.

A beginner is putting less overall stress on their bodies which means they should be able to recover even faster. In the end the only rule is that if it works, keep doing it. I have known people who made most on this site look like they don’t even workout who train for over 2 hours at a time. While I would never recommend that several days a week, he grew just fine from it.

Some of you seem more locked on what is “supposed” to happen instead of looking at what is actually producing the most results on people. Your body does not follow some preset guideline that matches everyone else on the planet specifically. No matter what approach you take, TRIAL AND ERROR is something you HAVE to go through.[/quote]

i agree, trial and error is pretty much a necessity. I think we can agree your advanced at this point. I would assume your very strong at this point and have built up your work capacity. As far as the TBT vs. Split argument goes i dont have any problem with splits and i’m currently using one. What i mean is how many people set splits up.

Look at what Poliquin put down as a routine above, he restarts the cycle every 5 days. In my opinion i think it is smarter, especially at an earlier stage, to work with lower sets (as in not 12 for bi’s and tri’s) and do it a little more frequently. When you get to your stage i see your point but for the OP and most people i think a routine focusing on getting stronger and not a huge amount of sets they probably cant recover well enough from to gain any strength is the better choice.

94

In the Ronnie Coleman leg press 2300lb video, look at one of the comments:

thats hella good without any supplements.

stronger then it will make you bigger, but do your researches first because ronnie says he does not take steroids and if you knew the man personally you would know hes not the type of guy that cheats…but he does take ALOT of supplements

Do I laugh or cry?

95

[quote]derek wrote:
I always thought alcohol consuption decreased test…

And if Mentzer was a strident TBT guy, why did he switch so quickly BACK to splits and stay that way until he died?[/quote]

Mentzer was the bigggest crock of shit liar there was. Thibs already put that to bed in another thread where he said friends of his would catch Mentzer doing late night extra workouts after his supposed “HIT” once every 7 day workouts so he’s a horrible example to use to support your stance.

96

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
let me first say that i like splits…

but to professor X and some others do you not feel like it can matter depending on the recovery abilities of the person? I guess this isn’t so much a question about how effective splits are but more about how many here seem to set it up.

I see guys on here with 1-2 years of experience doing 12 sets per bodypart (including biceps and another 12 for tri’s, etc…) splitting their muscles up so it’s once a week. Does no one else find that ridiculous? In my opinion the routines these guys should be more focused on routines focused on less sets, more frequency (maybe every 5 days or so) and getting stronger.

that kind of goes along with TBT but would still be splits, but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.

do you think there’s really that much difference in people’s ability to recover? (assuming all things are equal with nutrition, rest, stress, etc)
[/quote]

Agreed. And like I said earlier, it’s not like people’s recovery abilities and work capacities WILL NEVER increase because they can IF you work at it. It is not a finite, set in in stone quality. But it requires hard work to do it.

The first time you did sprints in football practice or suicides in basketball practice, it was probably hard and kicked your ass. 4 weeks later, it is much easier.

The same applies to weights with regard to work capacity and recovery. Both qualties can be improved.

You would think this is common knowledge, but apparently it’s not.

97

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
derek wrote:
I always thought alcohol consuption decreased test…

And if Mentzer was a strident TBT guy, why did he switch so quickly BACK to splits and stay that way until he died?

Mentzer was the bigggest crock of shit liar there was. Thibs already put that to bed in another thread where he said friends of his would catch Mentzer doing late night extra workouts after his supposed “HIT” once every 7 day workouts so he’s a horrible example to use to support your stance.[/quote]

Ummmm, I was using him to REFUTE TBT in case you missed it. Do you even know what my stance is?

98

Everyone is different.

99

Total body training works just fine til a point, then it works against you. I ran into this about a month ago, trying to do a heavy bench, row, and then squat or deadlift, all in the same session, just slaughtered me. I had nothing left for my last exercise, so as a result, you get short changed on whatever body part that is. Tbt is probably best for beginners, just because you get a little more frequency so you can get the form down for all the exercises. But after that, splits is the only logical way to go.

100

[quote]Professor X wrote:
derek wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
but so many of these people do what you guys are saying the pro’s do (who have much better than average recovery capacities) and destroying their muscles then not working them again for a week.

Who even cares what the pro’s do, just look at the biggest and/or strongest men and women in gyms that lift weights to get (lots) bigger and what do you see?

Look, this is just like everything else in this world. There are proven winning formulas and the smart people that reach the top using them and then there are failures and wannabe’s using sub-optimal and unproven formulas because they are stubborn, blind or slow.

I actually ENJOY TBT (HIT style), but I wont argure that it’s the fastest path to getting huge because it’s NOT.

It’s like it hurts to say, “the biggest bodybuilders may actually know what works to get that big”.

If I can look around and most of the people doing one thing are much smaller on average, why would I follow it?

Why are there 6’3" people who weigh 220lbs who DON’T want to make much progress logging in to tell us what is optimal?

Does this shit really make sense to people? They just ignore the most muscular people around and follow those who have made the least progress? Why would anyone do this?[/quote]

Is this akin to saying "fuck the methods of Warren Buffet and Peter Lynch inre to investing…I went to a free site that says to…