Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
741

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
trextacy wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
trextacy wrote:

What kills me is some of these guys have pics in their profiles and they are simply fat guys who lift. Those are a dime a dozen, and have nothing more in common with “bodybuilders” than Brad Pitt does (insert anyone who is lean w/o muscle). Muscle w/o leanness is just as deficient as leanness without muscle. But I digress…

good luck to you too.

So in other words you’re one of those who think they can do the whole journey while staying pretty-boy-lean.

Good luck, but then again, if your goal is to add 20 pounds and that’s it, then you could prolly do it…

[/quote]

Never said that…nor implied it. You seem to need to turn a statement into an extreme/absolute just so you can argue against it.

I’ve already added much more than 20 lbs and will add more. I have no problem carrying fat to add mass. When it’s all said and done, my goal will be to achieve a total of about 60 lbs of “extra” muscle. And yes, keeping an eye on fat and ultimately wanting to be lean AND muscular is the goal. I believe that is what bodybuilding is.

However, being 40, fat and strong is not bodybuilding. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it (goal dependent) but some of these self proclaimed bb-ing gatekeepers need to stfu and realize that having mass is just one of several components of bodybuilding. Leanness, proportion, etc. are also important. If you just want to be bigger than everyone else, then that’s fine. If you are 6’5" and larger boned, then congrats on eating a lot, training and being a big guy–you should be. Now take the extra step and get that blubber off your muscles.

To be clear- I only brought that up because some posters were flaming the shit out of me and questioning what I was saying based on my not posting a picture of myself. So, I looked at their profiles and found either grainy pics that don’t show shit or pics of “fat guys who lift”. Hence, my comment.

742

[quote]mr popular wrote:

Who the hell talks like this? Honestly, what good is it doing you to think of bodybuilding in such a ridiculous way?

Especially when your profile says “just shut up and lift.”[/quote]

Well, I guess I do.

What good? It’s a split that works for me. You?

I never said I do compound push/pull exclusively. What makes you think (I use the term loosely) that I don’t ever use isolation movements or other splits depending on what my current goal is?

Pretty simple bodybuilding if you ask me. I’ll make it simpler for you:

One day, I go in and ‘push’ heavy things away from me with my chest and triceps. Sometimes I push things with my shoulders and my triceps.

The NEXT day, I go in and ‘pull’ heavy things toward my with my back and biceptual muscles. Sometimes I even pull myself up-- I like to call those (wait for it…): Pull-ups.

The NEXT day, I PUSH things away from the floor with my legs. I like to call these ‘squats’ or ‘leg presses’ (if I’m on the “Leg Press Machine”).

The NEXT day, I usually rest.

The NEXT day, I might PUSH heavy things away from me-- usually the in a different plane than the first day.

The NEXT day, I might PULL (lift) heavy things off the floor. I like to call these ‘Deadlifts’.

Really, Pops, it’s just chest/tri, back/bi, legs, shoulders. Maybe I’ll do shoulders with chest if I know I’m not going to make it in on another day-- I’m still using ‘pushy’ muscles.

But you know what? “Push/Pull” is so much easier to type all the time than chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders. I mean, do I really have to type chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders every time?

If I say “4 day split”, then I have to follow up with “Chest/tris, Back/bis, Legs, Shoulders”.

I don’t see how “Just Shut Up and Lift” counters it? Really, just shut up and go push things and pull things. No, really, just shut up-- You’re making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Oh, did I say that it works for me? What the fuck do you care if I call it “George”?

Isn’t this thread about whether splits work?

Are you suggesting that Chest/tris (ie Push), Shoulders/tris (ie another Push), Back/bis (ie Pull), Legs don’t work?

How ridiculous, indeed.

743

Fat guys who lift.

You know nothing of me, or my goals. Certainly, I’ve bulked up, and put on a huge amount of new mass - I topped out at 285, down to 270 in the past 10 weeks. I’m going to see what 250 looks like, and take it from there.

I’ve been bodybuilding for 20 years. I’ve bulked up, and dieted down to low BF more times than you’ve probably ever set foot in the gym. Don’t assume you know shit about me, or my goals. I saw that tactic coming a mile away when you made that crack about Prof X’s “12 year bulk” earlier in the thread. Typical response from a 6’ 2" 205 pounder - if you don’t have the size, start with the fat cracks - seen it a million times, on lots of boards. Yawn…

Fact is, I’m asked on pretty much a daily basis about lifting, or the size of my arms gets a comment. And like I said, I’m well versed in getting lean. Losing fat is easy - gaining large amounts of mass is not. I’ll take my 19 inch calves anyday, and know damn well what my conditioning is like when I’m done with a bulk. Nice try though - but like I said, that’s an old, lame argument from little guys.

Fact is, I really don’t give a shit about this argument - do TBT if it works for you. Why would I care what you do? I only care about what I do. I posted way back in this thread, then didn’t come back for 20 some pages. Once you started with the smarmy attitude, calling everyone “pricks” I wanted to see what you looked like, and how much success you’ve had lifting. Which you still steadfastly refuse to do - and that clearly speaks for itself.

Personally, If you’d come into the discussion without the shitty attitude, I’d have no problem with it. The fact that you chose to be a condescending prick to some long time posters here is reprehensible. Would you walk into a new gym and act like a jerkoff to all the senior members? Of course not. People act like they don’t need to give a shit or have any manners in a forum community because it’s the internet. To me that’s just pussy behavior. Have some decency, and you’ll be treated with decency.

744

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Fat guys who lift.

You know nothing of me, or my goals. Certainly, I’ve bulked up, and put on a huge amount of new mass - I topped out at 285, down to 270 in the past 10 weeks. I’m going to see what 250 looks like, and take it from there.

I’ve been bodybuilding for 20 years. I’ve bulked up, and dieted down to low BF more times than you’ve probably ever set foot in the gym. Don’t assume you know shit about me, or my goals. I saw that tactic coming a mile away when you made that crack about Prof X’s “12 year bulk” earlier in the thread. Typical response from a 6’ 2" 205 pounder - if you don’t have the size, start with the fat cracks - seen it a million times, on lots of boards. Yawn…

Fact is, I’m asked on pretty much a daily basis about lifting, or the size of my arms gets a comment. And like I said, I’m well versed in getting lean. Losing fat is easy - gaining large amounts of mass is not. I’ll take my 19 inch calves anyday, and know damn well what my conditioning is like when I’m done with a bulk. Nice try though - but like I said, that’s an old, lame argument from little guys.

Fact is, I really don’t give a shit about this argument - do TBT if it works for you. Why would I care what you do? I only care about what I do. I posted way back in this thread, then didn’t come back for 20 some pages. Once you started with the smarmy attitude, calling everyone “pricks” I wanted to see what you looked like, and how much success you’ve had lifting. Which you still steadfastly refuse to do - and that clearly speaks for itself.

Personally, If you’d come into the discussion without the shitty attitude, I’d have no problem with it. The fact that you chose to be a condescending prick to some long time posters here is reprehensible. Would you walk into a new gym and act like a jerkoff to all the senior members? Of course not. People act like they don’t need to give a shit or have any manners in a forum community because it’s the internet. To me that’s just pussy behavior. Have some decency, and you’ll be treated with decency. [/quote]

Good for you and your goals. I genuinely hope you achieve them since I sense you are probably a good guy when you aren’t on these boards. You (and your little group) made this shit personal, not me (yes rambo). If you re-read the thread you will find that I’ve been flamed and called shit and taken MUCH more than I’ve dished out.

I didn’t come into it with any attitude. People who were called pricks were acting like pricks. If you were honest you would acknowledge that the usual suspects that always get into flame wars are always the same people, always crying foul, always debating the same things they pretend to hate detabing, always talking shit and always talking down to people. It’s the same fucking people over and over again, and it isn’t me.

But keep up the act.

745

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
trextacy wrote:

There is nothing “limited” about doing 4 big movements, adding weight to the bar, eating a ton and busting your ass. You will add tons of strength and muscle, have plenty of recovery time, grow like a weed and not neglect any major muscle groups. Once strength and size have been acheived, split things up. Adjust set/rep schemes depending on goal and to give the muscles a different stimulus. Use assistance/isolation exercises as needed.

People want this shit to be so complicated…

Dude, this sounds like you are quoting from some book or infomercial. It sounds good to people who don’t know better. But on this site, people know better!

The real problem you are having is your Jedi-like devotion to TBT, which is why most know you have little experience in training.

Most of us who have been training for a long time know there is no one program or methodology that is best for everyone all the time. So those with experience use what works until it stops working and then do something different. The fact that you feel TBT is the only way to go shows your inexperience.

That last sentence shows that you haven’t even read the fucking thread. This is getting ridiculous.
[/quote]

Dude, I’m not busting on you because you use TBT. I’m busting on you because you appear to feel that it is the “best” and only way to get big and make progress. If that is not true and you think split training is equally effective, then I take back what I said. But based on your arguments with X and others it seems to me that you only feel TBT will work, and THAT is wrong and THAT is my issue.

746

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
trextacy wrote:

There is nothing “limited” about doing 4 big movements, adding weight to the bar, eating a ton and busting your ass. You will add tons of strength and muscle, have plenty of recovery time, grow like a weed and not neglect any major muscle groups. Once strength and size have been acheived, split things up. Adjust set/rep schemes depending on goal and to give the muscles a different stimulus. Use assistance/isolation exercises as needed.

People want this shit to be so complicated…

Dude, this sounds like you are quoting from some book or infomercial. It sounds good to people who don’t know better. But on this site, people know better!

The real problem you are having is your Jedi-like devotion to TBT, which is why most know you have little experience in training.

Most of us who have been training for a long time know there is no one program or methodology that is best for everyone all the time. So those with experience use what works until it stops working and then do something different. The fact that you feel TBT is the only way to go shows your inexperience.

That last sentence shows that you haven’t even read the fucking thread. This is getting ridiculous.

Dude, I’m not busting on you because you use TBT. I’m busting on you because you appear to feel that it is the “best” and only way to get big and make progress. If that is not true and you think split training is equally effective, then I take back what I said. But based on your arguments with X and others it seems to me that you only feel TBT will work, and THAT is wrong and THAT is my issue.

[/quote]

If I gave you that impression then that’s my bad. Splits work and are good. I think full body workouts probably work best at adding strength and muscle for most naturals who are beginners or intermediates. Even if an upper/lower or push/pull/legs were used it would be better than a 4-6 way split for anyone other than an advanced lifter.

747

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Well, I guess I do.

What good? It’s a split that works for me. You?

I never said I do compound push/pull exclusively. What makes you think (I use the term loosely) that I don’t ever use isolation movements or other splits depending on what my current goal is?

Pretty simple bodybuilding if you ask me. I’ll make it simpler for you:

One day, I go in and ‘push’ heavy things away from me with my chest and triceps. Sometimes I push things with my shoulders and my triceps.

The NEXT day, I go in and ‘pull’ heavy things toward my with my back and biceptual muscles. Sometimes I even pull myself up-- I like to call those (wait for it…): Pull-ups.

The NEXT day, I PUSH things away from the floor with my legs. I like to call these ‘squats’ or ‘leg presses’ (if I’m on the “Leg Press Machine”).

The NEXT day, I usually rest.

The NEXT day, I might PUSH heavy things away from me-- usually the in a different plane than the first day.

The NEXT day, I might PULL (lift) heavy things off the floor. I like to call these ‘Deadlifts’.

Really, Pops, it’s just chest/tri, back/bi, legs, shoulders. Maybe I’ll do shoulders with chest if I know I’m not going to make it in on another day-- I’m still using ‘pushy’ muscles.

But you know what? “Push/Pull” is so much easier to type all the time than chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders. I mean, do I really have to type chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders every time?

If I say “4 day split”, then I have to follow up with “Chest/tris, Back/bis, Legs, Shoulders”.

I don’t see how “Just Shut Up and Lift” counters it? Really, just shut up and go push things and pull things. No, really, just shut up-- You’re making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Oh, did I say that it works for me? What the fuck do you care if I call it “George”?

Isn’t this thread about whether splits work?

Are you suggesting that Chest/tris (ie Push), Shoulders/tris (ie another Push), Back/bis (ie Pull), Legs don’t work?

How ridiculous, indeed.[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about…?

I never said ANYTHING about the way youre training, what struck me as odd was the extremely retarded and pretentious way you chose to put things. Thinking of exercising in terms of “movement planes” or “proxys” or whatever the hell else you were saying.

For instance, I don’t think biceptual is even a word. Why wouldn’t you just say BICEP?

748

re: ‘biceptual’

Are you really that uptight?

How was my post pretentious-- wtf are YOU talking about? You’re grand contribution to the thread is to call me ridiculous and pretentious?

There’s only so many ways to move a weight around. If I’m training chest/triceps one day, I’m probably not doing shoulder the next day. I normally push things over my head to train shoulders and I usually train my chest laying down.

What’s complicated about that?

749

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
trextacy wrote:

There is nothing “limited” about doing 4 big movements, adding weight to the bar, eating a ton and busting your ass. You will add tons of strength and muscle, have plenty of recovery time, grow like a weed and not neglect any major muscle groups. Once strength and size have been acheived, split things up. Adjust set/rep schemes depending on goal and to give the muscles a different stimulus. Use assistance/isolation exercises as needed.

People want this shit to be so complicated…

Dude, this sounds like you are quoting from some book or infomercial. It sounds good to people who don’t know better. But on this site, people know better!

The real problem you are having is your Jedi-like devotion to TBT, which is why most know you have little experience in training.

Most of us who have been training for a long time know there is no one program or methodology that is best for everyone all the time. So those with experience use what works until it stops working and then do something different. The fact that you feel TBT is the only way to go shows your inexperience.

That last sentence shows that you haven’t even read the fucking thread. This is getting ridiculous.

Dude, I’m not busting on you because you use TBT. I’m busting on you because you appear to feel that it is the “best” and only way to get big and make progress. If that is not true and you think split training is equally effective, then I take back what I said. But based on your arguments with X and others it seems to me that you only feel TBT will work, and THAT is wrong and THAT is my issue.

If I gave you that impression then that’s my bad. Splits work and are good. I think full body workouts probably work best at adding strength and muscle for most naturals who are beginners or intermediates. Even if an upper/lower or push/pull/legs were used it would be better than a 4-6 way split for anyone other than an advanced lifter.
[/quote]

I have used both and made progress from both. I currently use an upper/lower “spilt”, but it sounds like you think that is TBT? I always considered anything other than working your entire body each session as a split.

I like working more than one group per session because I think there are a lot of advantages in working the agonist groups at the same time. So the smallest split I would do would be two groups per session.

750

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
as far as TBT goes you cant argue its good for putting on size because no one has ever done it.

every single BBer and big person has used a split routine.

before everything you learned in science class, before everything you learned from certification, use common sense, observation, and experience.

dont just believe something because you hear or read it. there isnt anyhting too complex about this but that really hasnt stopped people from making something so simple as working out from turning it into advanced physics.[/quote]

Completely agree.

751

my split
Mon biceps brachii
tues triceps brachii
wed brachialis
thurs semimembranosis semitendinosis
wed vastus intermedius
thurs biceps femoris
friday quadriceps mediallis and lateralis
sat upper pec
sun lower lats
monday rear deltiod
tues front deltoid and lower/inner pec
wed ext obliq abdominus
thur soleus
fri outer pec and upper middle back
sat gastroc
sun internal oblique and wrist extensors
repeat

I only use isolation exercises though.
no direct rectus work. I don’t like the bulky look.
I am on a 44.5/22.8/22.7 p/f/c ratio diet, eating 33% in the am, 11% am snack, 22% lunch, 11% afternoon snack, 23% dinner.
I chew 32 times per bite, limiting bites to pi amount of oz. 3.1415927
currently using fibonacci numbers as my rep tempo slow day 8/2/3 fast day 2/1/3
I look to my biorhythyms for off days

Feels like I am missing something. any suggestions?

752

DAMN, lets see you forgot…
transverse abdominus
flexor carpi radialis/ulnaris
sternocleidomastoid
tensor fascia latae
pectineus
external/internal intercostals

not too bad though

753

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
my split
Mon biceps brachii
tues triceps brachii
wed brachialis
thurs semimembranosis semitendinosis
wed vastus intermedius
thurs biceps femoris
friday quadriceps mediallis and lateralis
sat upper pec
sun lower lats
monday rear deltiod
tues front deltoid and lower/inner pec
wed ext obliq abdominus
thur soleus
fri outer pec and upper middle back
sat gastroc
sun internal oblique and wrist extensors
repeat

I only use isolation exercises though.
no direct rectus work. I don’t like the bulky look.
I am on a 44.5/22.8/22.7 p/f/c ratio diet, eating 33% in the am, 11% am snack, 22% lunch, 11% afternoon snack, 23% dinner.
I chew 32 times per bite, limiting bites to pi amount of oz. 3.1415927
currently using fibonacci numbers as my rep tempo slow day 8/2/3 fast day 2/1/3
I look to my biorhythyms for off days

Feels like I am missing something. any suggestions?
[/quote]

Yes. You are clearly too lazy to have your cells microanalyzed by a local teaching university to rule out any possible genetic variances that may prevent you from gaining exactly 1.9lbs of lean body mass per 11 days : 13 hours.

Also, electron microscope. Look it up.

754

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
my split
Mon biceps brachii
tues triceps brachii
wed brachialis
thurs semimembranosis semitendinosis
wed vastus intermedius
thurs biceps femoris
friday quadriceps mediallis and lateralis
sat upper pec
sun lower lats
monday rear deltiod
tues front deltoid and lower/inner pec
wed ext obliq abdominus
thur soleus
fri outer pec and upper middle back
sat gastroc
sun internal oblique and wrist extensors
repeat

I only use isolation exercises though.
no direct rectus work. I don’t like the bulky look.
I am on a 44.5/22.8/22.7 p/f/c ratio diet, eating 33% in the am, 11% am snack, 22% lunch, 11% afternoon snack, 23% dinner.
I chew 32 times per bite, limiting bites to pi amount of oz. 3.1415927
currently using fibonacci numbers as my rep tempo slow day 8/2/3 fast day 2/1/3
I look to my biorhythyms for off days

Feels like I am missing something. any suggestions?

Yes. You are clearly too lazy to have your cells microanalyzed by a local teaching university to rule out any possible genetic variances that may prevent you from gaining exactly 1.9lbs of lean body mass per 11 days : 13 hours.

Also, electron microscope. Look it up.[/quote]

Man, I swear that you can’t gain more than 0.4 lbs of muscle tissue throughout an 11-day period. It’s true, I’ve read it!

755

Jesus, and I get shit for thinking push/pull/horizontal/vertical…

756

But as many of us know, a high affinity polyclonal antibody specific for phosphotyrosyl residues has been used in immunoblotting experiments to survey developing embryonic chicken tissues for the presence and characteristics of tyrosine phosphorylated proteins.

Proteins phosphorylated on tyrosine were found to be present in all the embryonic tissues examined, including heart, thigh, gizzard, intestine, lung, liver, kidney, brain, and lens, from 7 to 21 d of development in ovo, but were greatly reduced or absent in the same tissues taken from adult chickens.

A limited number of major tyrosine phosphorylated proteins were seen in all the tissues examined and they ranged in molecular mass from 35 to 220 kD.

Most of the tissues contained proteins phosphorylated on tyrosine with apparent molecular masses of 120, 70, 60, and 35 kD, suggesting that the substrates of tyrosine protein kinases in different tissues may be related proteins.

So does this mean TBT is better?

757

[quote]brancron wrote:
But as many of us know, a high affinity polyclonal antibody specific for phosphotyrosyl residues has been used in immunoblotting experiments to survey developing embryonic chicken tissues for the presence and characteristics of tyrosine phosphorylated proteins.

Proteins phosphorylated on tyrosine were found to be present in all the embryonic tissues examined, including heart, thigh, gizzard, intestine, lung, liver, kidney, brain, and lens, from 7 to 21 d of development in ovo, but were greatly reduced or absent in the same tissues taken from adult chickens.

A limited number of major tyrosine phosphorylated proteins were seen in all the tissues examined and they ranged in molecular mass from 35 to 220 kD.

Most of the tissues contained proteins phosphorylated on tyrosine with apparent molecular masses of 120, 70, 60, and 35 kD, suggesting that the substrates of tyrosine protein kinases in different tissues may be related proteins.

So does this mean TBT is better?[/quote]

Apparently so. Let us not forget the scientific trials of 1967 testing whether having only 4 mitochondria in a cell may just indicate that you can build arms up to, but not over 16.5" flexed (more than that clearly requires drug use) if you only train 3 days a week.

Science FTW.

758

[quote]pvieira wrote:
DAMN, lets see you forgot…
transverse abdominus
flexor carpi radialis/ulnaris
sternocleidomastoid
tensor fascia latae
pectineus
external/internal intercostals

not too bad though[/quote]

whoa, whoa, whoa. I could throw those in but I don’t want to be on a specialization routine right now. I only throw a few sets in for my Levator Labii Inferioris here and there, but I just want to tone.

759

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
I chew 32 times per bite, limiting bites to pi amount of oz. 3.1415927

Feels like I am missing something. any suggestions?
[/quote]

jp_d -

You only took PI to 7 decimal places. I was wondering how you make any progress with such sloppy precision?

760

I think it’s possible,if you choose to relay on pills,I don’t think it’s a good way.by exercise,maybe is slowly,but it’s use for your health,at the same time, get to what you want.
you can use by tools,such as jetski,if only you hold on,you will success.you can see this website:

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