TBT IS the best way to workout for mass. I know because of experience, I am continuosly gaining 5 pounds a years. Write now im 6’1 155lbs and 18% bf, talking bout huge!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I train 3 very hard days a week on a 3 way split and am still growing. However, if I were younger I would go to every other day and may still actually do that for a trial run. I’ve been fiddling with that idea or going full time DC for quite a while, but this keeps working. I used to have delts, calves and abs on a day by themselves with quads on one day, back and bi’s on another and shoulders and chest on another.
People in the prime of life will usually do better with more than 3 days a week. Actually sometimes I throw a bit of supplemental work on weaker groups on fourth day now.
It depends on what you are doing on those days. I did legs alone last night. I will probably either do back or biceps tonight. Training one body part a day allows me to train that often and still get out of the gym in under one hour (often in about 40-45min).[/quote]
I’m not sure I follow. I was saying that most younger guys would do better working more than 3 days a week, though I will back peddle just a bit and add that I think 3 days, done right, can bring more return than might at first be assumed if you really make em count.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I train 3 very hard days a week on a 3 way split and am still growing. However, if I were younger I would go to every other day and may still actually do that for a trial run. I’ve been fiddling with that idea or going full time DC for quite a while, but this keeps working. I used to have delts, calves and abs on a day by themselves with quads on one day, back and bi’s on another and shoulders and chest on another.
People in the prime of life will usually do better with more than 3 days a week. Actually sometimes I throw a bit of supplemental work on weaker groups on fourth day now.
It depends on what you are doing on those days. I did legs alone last night. I will probably either do back or biceps tonight. Training one body part a day allows me to train that often and still get out of the gym in under one hour (often in about 40-45min).
I’m not sure I follow. I was saying that most younger guys would do better working more than 3 days a week, though I will back peddle just a bit and add that I think 3 days, done right, can bring more return than might at first be assumed if you really make em count.[/quote]
IMO 3 day splits allow for a combination of high rep and ME work, due to the extra recovery time. Which has been really good to me as far as size/strength goes.
ymmv
[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The point is, what did he do to BUILD that size, not what is he doing now that he has it.
I keep writing this…and you keep missing it.
i haven’t missed it once. i assume that considering he says 4x a week hasn’t allowed him to recover well he obviously hasnt put most of his size on using it
That is one huge fucking assumption. Had it occurred to you that he RECENTLY dropped his days down to three a week?
No, that just couldn’t happen. He obviously trained just like you see him now from day one.
This has gotten stupid. No one trains exactly the same after they gain 80lbs of muscle as they did when they first started. I train only one muscle group a day because any more than that would leave me too wiped out to sufficiently train another large muscle group. That doesn’t mean that I NEVER trained more body parts on one day.
This is shit you will NOT know unless you actually know this guy very well on a friend level and he goes into specific detail about how he trained for years.
are you missing what i’m saying on purpose? He said 4x a week never let him recover enough. not “oh well at this point in time it doesn’t”, he just said he cant recover well from it. Obviously if he had gained a lot of muscle in the past from 4x a week he wouldn’t have said that. If anything he’d have a higher work capacity now then before.
www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6823
He also claims to be “CNS challenged”. Any pics of this guy?
I am not “CNS challenged” and have never even heard this term before. If these are the types you want to follow, so be it. Have fun and let us know when you gain 50lbs.[/quote]
theres a pic of him in his avatar. Either way it was an example explaining what i said, i didnt say it was the only way or the best way but clearly it is for him and others like him
I’m confused… pumped340 are you using Iron Addict as your example of 3 times a week training or someone else?
[quote]Scott M wrote:
I’m confused… pumped340 are you using Iron Addict as your example of 3 times a week training or someone else? [/quote]
i was using halfway. But IA says he likes them too
Can somebody give me an example of a TBT workout, vs a Split?
Because I’ve seen plenty of people pack on just as much weight as a split if not more using TBT training, if it is what I think it is.(Ex. Bench, Squat, Row in same day 3x a week). To see all the people on here saying TBT can’t put on a foundation of size for bodybuilding is amazing.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
To see all the people on here saying TBT can’t put on a foundation of size for bodybuilding is amazing.[/quote]
This is what gets me. Who here has written that TBT can NOT build any size at all? What has been said is you would have to have your head firmly wedged between both butt cheeks to ignore what has built the best built bodies on the planet in majority for decades if the goal is to also gain the most muscle. There is nothing that dictates someone has to use TBT before they use a split routine other than the opinion of authors, many of which seem to dislike bodybuilding…which is the fucking goal to start with.
The entire argument seems to be that some think you somehow NEED TBT as a beginner and that it is most effective for building a foundation.
This is false. Someone who has a chance in hell of truly standing out to begin with won’t be so genetically predisposed to sucking at athletic endeavors that they need something to help them build enough strength just to see a benefit from a split routine. If someone is that weak and uncoordinated that they need an “intro to splits”, they probably don’t have very good genetics for bodybuilding to begin with.
That is the argument. If that still isn’t clear at this point to someone, how about simply stepping out of the thread because another 20 pages of arguments from some of the smallest lifters on the site probably won’t interest too many people.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
To see all the people on here saying TBT can’t put on a foundation of size for bodybuilding is amazing.
This is what gets me. Who here has written that TBT can NOT build any size at all? What has been said is you would have to have your head firmly wedged between both butt cheeks to ignore what has built the best built bodies on the planet in majority for decades if the goal is to also gain the most muscle. There is nothing that dictates someone has to use TBT before they use a split routine other than the opinion of authors, many of which seem to dislike bodybuilding…which is the fucking goal to start with.
The entire argument seems to be that some think you somehow NEED TBT as a beginner and that it is most effective for building a foundation.
This is false. Someone who has a chance in hell of truly standing out to begin with won’t be so genetically predisposed to sucking at athletic endeavors that they need something to help them build enough strength just to see a benefit from a split routine. If someone is that weak and uncoordinated that they need an “intro to splits”, they probably don’t have very good genetics for bodybuilding to begin with.
That is the argument. If that still isn’t clear at this point to someone, how about simply stepping out of the thread because another 20 pages of arguments from some of the smallest lifters on the site probably won’t interest too many people.
[/quote]
I smell troll.
Make it stop… Pleeease, make it stop!
Austin_Bicep-
split’s or part training is not superior to total body training they are different, different things work for different people. I see split training as an excuse for people to avoid compound movements because they are scared to work hard. Split training is an option for advanced bodybuilders, which most people are not.
In order for people to improve and to reach their goals they need to challenge them selves each time they lift. Dog Crap is a split program made up of multi joint movements and is all about working to a new repetition record each week, it works. A high volume low intensity split. Bench press for several sets to almost failure followed by incline and than decline than dips and about 3-4 different kinds of push downs does not work. Most people are not willing to work hard enough to improve.
I personally stick to the basics, I do a pressing, a pulling and a squatting movement each time I lift. I am 5’7 and 210 at 10% body fat, I deadlift over 600, I have squatted over 600, bench pressed over 400 and push pressed 300 and strict pressed 240, done a pull up with an extra 100 and dips with 180 pounds.
I let my training intensity drop for a while and I lost strength, I am back to training hard and my strenth is coming back. I am completely drug free and will provide a sample anytime any one is willing to pay for the drug test. I tried split training I got weak and lifting was not fun any more.
I reccommend new lifters start with a total body approach and after they have lifted for several months that they try other things.
Split training is not superior, it works for some people for others it does not work. Every person has to find what works for them. I do what works for me, you do what works for you that does not mean my ideas are better than yours or your ideas are better than mine they are different. Blanket statements saying one training method is superior is ignorant no matter what method they favor.
[quote]rwhaan wrote:
Austin_Bicep-
split’s or part training is not superior to total body training they are different, different things work for different people. I see split training as an excuse for people to avoid compound movements because they are scared to work hard. Split training is an option for advanced bodybuilders, which most people are not. In order for people to improve and to reach their goals they need to challenge them selves each time they lift. Dog Crap is a split program made up of multi joint movements and is all about working to a new repetition record each week, it works. A high volume low intensity split. Bench press for several sets to almost failure followed by incline and than decline than dips and about 3-4 different kinds of push downs does not work. Most people are not willing to work hard enough to improve.
I personally stick to the basics, I do a pressing, a pulling and a squatting movement each time I lift. I am 5’7 and 210 at 10% body fat, I deadlift over 600, I have squatted over 600, bench pressed over 400 and push pressed 300 and strict pressed 240, done a pull up with an extra 100 and dips with 180 pounds. I let my training intensity drop for a while and I lost strength, I am back to training hard and my strenth is coming back. I am completely drug free and will provide a sample anytime any one is willing to pay for the drug test. I tried split training I got weak and lifting was not fun any more. I reccommend new lifters start with a total body approach and after they have lifted for several months that they try other things.
Split training is not superior, it works for some people for others it does not work. Every person has to find what works for them. I do what works for me, you do what works for you that does not mean my ideas are better than yours or your ideas are better than mine they are different. Blanket statements saying one training method is superior is ignorant no matter what method they favor. [/quote]
TROLL!
Who here who does splits doesnt do compounds?
TROLL! TROLL I SAY!
Guy with HUGE glasses walks into the Air Force recruiting Center:
Guy: “I would like to be a fighter pilot”
Air Force Recruiter: “You need very good eye sight to be a fighter pilot”
Guy:“But I read that anyone can be a fighter pilot if they want to and that the top fighter pilots only got that way because they had genetically better eye sight and quick reflexes. For average guys to be fighter pilots, we should start flying crop dusters…and I did that all summer!”
Air Force Recruiter: “You need very good eyesight to be a fighter pilot and our fighter pilots didn’t start out on crop dusters. They started out on our own advanced training program.”
Guy: “But I don’t have the time in a day for a new program and I shouldn’t be prevented from being a fighter pilot just because I wear glasses! Leading internet experts agree that ANYONE can be a fighter pilot and I think all of your pilots are doing programs that ONLY work if you have good eyesight and quick reflexes”.
Air Force Recruiter: “That would be the point”
Guy: “But I heard of one guy in 1945 who flew a plane after flying crop dusters!!”
Air Force Recruiter: “Security!”
[quote]Protoculture wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Slight retraction. AC does discuss splits in “TNROL.” He discusses upper/lower body, a 3 day split, four-day Ian King style split, and a Westside split. When it comes to “bodybuilding splits,” he says this on page 43:
“The idea is to isolate muscle groups (“bodyparts”)and work them to exhaustion, as if they were revolutionary insurgents in a third-world country who have to be divided and conquered. I’ve seen bodybuilding routines with 12 workouts a week-two a day for six days. Entire workouts might be devoted to biceps or triceps or hamstrings, isolating these muscles from the ones they’re designed to work with. If Alwyn and I believed in this type of training, we’d show you how to do it. But we don’t, so we won’t.”
Does this mean he doesn’t believe in “bodypart splits”? I don’t really know. He gives a tiny rationale for going to a split routine (after saying he was a “big fan of TBT” on the previous page) on page 41, but the explanation you posted above is a lot more clear and understandable.
If I’m not mistaken Lou Schuler wrote NROL and AC provided the programs. I’d check for you but I no longer own a copy of that book.
[/quote]
Yeah, like I said, I don’t know if AC actually agrees with Lou there, but it’s pretty bad if he doesn’t because he’s a coauthor.
The problem is, most of those books are geared toward rank beginners who’ve done almost nothing physical their entire lives. The programs work for the newbie gains, but then you’re stuck trying to figure out what to do next, and there’s not a lot of reliable material out there to read.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
To see all the people on here saying TBT can’t put on a foundation of size for bodybuilding is amazing.
This is what gets me. Who here has written that TBT can NOT build any size at all? What has been said is you would have to have your head firmly wedged between both butt cheeks to ignore what has built the best built bodies on the planet in majority for decades if the goal is to also gain the most muscle. There is nothing that dictates someone has to use TBT before they use a split routine other than the opinion of authors, many of which seem to dislike bodybuilding…which is the fucking goal to start with.
The entire argument seems to be that some think you somehow NEED TBT as a beginner and that it is most effective for building a foundation.
This is false. Someone who has a chance in hell of truly standing out to begin with won’t be so genetically predisposed to sucking at athletic endeavors that they need something to help them build enough strength just to see a benefit from a split routine. If someone is that weak and uncoordinated that they need an “intro to splits”, they probably don’t have very good genetics for bodybuilding to begin with.
That is the argument. If that still isn’t clear at this point to someone, how about simply stepping out of the thread because another 20 pages of arguments from some of the smallest lifters on the site probably won’t interest too many people.
[/quote]
I would sure like to see this huge headed Watcher who can make a factual claim to what one program has built the best bodies on the planet since the era of bodybuilding.
Most of the bodybuilders I’ve heard of either built their foundation playing sports early on, or the skinny ones who started late all started with an all muscle groups 3 days a week program, and may have switched to many different types of programs later on. To discount their original program that many if not most used, is on par with saying you should get down to 5% bodyfat before bulking because they learned their ways from being a 250+ fat boy first.
If you want to go by majority rules then gyms are completely FILLED with small ass trainees using split programs similar to all your large pro-bodybuilder size split comrads arguing in this thread who don’t compete.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
To see all the people on here saying TBT can’t put on a foundation of size for bodybuilding is amazing.
This is what gets me. Who here has written that TBT can NOT build any size at all? What has been said is you would have to have your head firmly wedged between both butt cheeks to ignore what has built the best built bodies on the planet in majority for decades if the goal is to also gain the most muscle. There is nothing that dictates someone has to use TBT before they use a split routine other than the opinion of authors, many of which seem to dislike bodybuilding…which is the fucking goal to start with.
The entire argument seems to be that some think you somehow NEED TBT as a beginner and that it is most effective for building a foundation.
This is false. Someone who has a chance in hell of truly standing out to begin with won’t be so genetically predisposed to sucking at athletic endeavors that they need something to help them build enough strength just to see a benefit from a split routine. If someone is that weak and uncoordinated that they need an “intro to splits”, they probably don’t have very good genetics for bodybuilding to begin with.
That is the argument. If that still isn’t clear at this point to someone, how about simply stepping out of the thread because another 20 pages of arguments from some of the smallest lifters on the site probably won’t interest too many people.
I would sure like to see this huge headed Watcher who can make a factual claim to what one program has built the best bodies on the planet since the era of bodybuilding.
Most of the bodybuilders I’ve heard of either built their foundation playing sports early on, or the skinny ones who started late all started with an all muscle groups 3 days a week program, and may have switched to many different types of programs later on. To discount their original program that many if not most used, is on par with saying you should get down to 5% bodyfat before bulking because they learned their ways from being a 250+ fat boy first.
If you want to go by majority rules then gyms are completely FILLED with small ass trainees using split programs similar to all your large pro-bodybuilder size split comrads arguing in this thread who don’t compete.
[/quote]
Most bodybuilders may have played sports early on but very few went from skinny to huge doing a full body program 3 times a week. Shawn Ray didn’t. Arnold didn’t. Lou Ferrigno didn’t. Ben White didn’t. I could go through all of the names I know for sure who didn’t but what will it matter if you refuse to accept it?
I know I didn’t either. How many people on this site alone have gone from skinny to huge doing a full body routine 3 times a week most of the time to do it? You?
[quote]rwhaan wrote:
Austin_Bicep-
split’s or part training is not superior to total body training they are different, different things work for different people. I see split training as an excuse for people to avoid compound movements because they are scared to work hard. Split training is an option for advanced bodybuilders, which most people are not.
In order for people to improve and to reach their goals they need to challenge them selves each time they lift. Dog Crap is a split program made up of multi joint movements and is all about working to a new repetition record each week, it works. A high volume low intensity split. Bench press for several sets to almost failure followed by incline and than decline than dips and about 3-4 different kinds of push downs does not work. Most people are not willing to work hard enough to improve.
I personally stick to the basics, I do a pressing, a pulling and a squatting movement each time I lift. I am 5’7 and 210 at 10% body fat, I deadlift over 600, I have squatted over 600, bench pressed over 400 and push pressed 300 and strict pressed 240, done a pull up with an extra 100 and dips with 180 pounds.
I let my training intensity drop for a while and I lost strength, I am back to training hard and my strenth is coming back. I am completely drug free and will provide a sample anytime any one is willing to pay for the drug test. I tried split training I got weak and lifting was not fun any more.
I reccommend new lifters start with a total body approach and after they have lifted for several months that they try other things.
Split training is not superior, it works for some people for others it does not work. Every person has to find what works for them. I do what works for me, you do what works for you that does not mean my ideas are better than yours or your ideas are better than mine they are different. Blanket statements saying one training method is superior is ignorant no matter what method they favor. [/quote]
Want a cookie?
This is the problem, we have 23 pages of people arguing shit that has nothing to do with price of protein in China. Nobody in this threads stats impress me…Mine included, so unless your a top ranked pro bodybuilder I really don’t care to hear ANYBODY’s stats. If you are a pro bodybuilder, you have to honestly state you’ve only used splits your WHOLE LIFE, or you used tbt for a decent amount of time ate, and only gained 5lbs. Other than that the only thing worth hearing is a legitimate study, or someone specifically saying I saw this person do X and didn’t grow then he did split and grew this way.
Why the fuck do people think that you are not training compounds on a split routine?
[quote]Alquemist wrote:
Why the fuck do people think that you are not training compounds on a split routine? [/quote]
Because they’ve been told that strength and size don’t go hand in hand and that bodybuilders are weak and barely curl 35lbs dumbbells by these personal trainers trying to sell shit.
That is why they are using examples of weekend warriors who don’t train right as a description of “split training”.
I have never heard of a bodybuilder avoiding the big movements. They are a part of training like everything else.
Most of the arguments in this thread are flat out retarded and when they are being argued by little people, this might as well be comedy hour.
[quote]Alquemist wrote:
Why the fuck do people think that you are not training compounds on a split routine? [/quote]
or that people not working hard enough on a split is a reason tbt training is better. ROTFL.
Fullbody routines are great for people just starting out. IMO just about anyone who just joined a gym will progress faster doing starting strength for a few months, and then switching to something else. However I can’t really endorse fullbody routines any farther then that.