Are Bodypart Splits Useless?

Training Bodybuilding
441

[quote]Professor X wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

I think most everyone is on board with the timing thing. If you can only train a couple times a week hitting the full body is the way to go.

IMO
legs-push-pull.

I have tried a leg day and a push pull day and didn’t like it when I was only hitting the gym twice a week. I much preferred total body. For three days a week I like a legs, push pull and a total body. Of course neither of these is optimum for me. I need the volume to grow so various splits at 4 or 5 days is best for me.

My recovery has been shit lately, probably due to terrible sleep becuase of apnea. I used to do upper/lower, but I feel I can get more volume this way. I usually do 1-2 heavy movements ME style and 1-3 movements in the 8-12 rep range. I think, especially at the point where I am in my training, this will give me the best results. I need strength and size to fill out my potential in my sport.

Dude you get apnea at that bodyweight and age?
That’s not something to fuck with, get yourself to a doc asap…

Not that I want to order you around or anything, it’s just rather worrisome.

genetic, my grandpa has it too. I’ve been talking to my parents about it. I rmember the first time I woke up choking I thought I was going to die. If I prop my head up when I sleep it’s not even close to as bad as laying down flat. But I have head forward posture form that now. I’m talking to the doc about it next time I go.

I see a mouth appliance or a respirator in your future. You may be one person who should take his gains in body weight very seriously.

This is fairly common for bigger guys (like NFL linemen) because of the weight on their neck from their musculature and overall body mass. It should also not be taken lightly.[/quote]

I’ve had it since I was like 120 pounds and 13 years old. LOL, all big and lineman like.

I really have no idea how I have it, and it sucks. Every morning I wake up and by the time I’m in the shower I have to hold onto something or lean against a wall to stay up, because I’m so dizzy. I’ve read apnea doesn’t let you get stage 4 sleep, the deep sleep. Would it be right to assume if i got a respirator my overall performance at school, and the weightroom would be better, on top of it being easier to get up in the morning?

edit, off to the weightroom, I’ll be back later. Thanks for the insight prof and cephalic.

442

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
COME ON!!! We need a list of HUGE bodybuilders who used TBT to build the majority of their size. Can we start with just ONE name?

IF YOU REALLY, REALLY THINK THAT THE MASS MONSTERS AND HEAVYWEIGHTS SIZE WAS BUILT “PRIMARILY” BECAUSE THE TRAINED INTENSLY WITH SPLITS, THEN YOU ARE NAIVE.

Professor- listen to me. I’m being dead serious. I get the impression that you think you are going to blast the shit out of your muscles, eat until your stomach is distended.

Finish up your 12 year “bulk” and that someday, somehow, you will have the physique like one of the “HUGE” (as you say) professional IFBB heavyweight bodybuilders WITHOUT GETTING ON GEAR OF SOME SORT. Unless you have Vic Richards’ genetics (he had help too) it will not happen.

If it hasn’t happened already, it won’t happen.

How old are you now?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. People are actually, citing every roided up mass monster in support of their position without acknowledging that roids play a part in about 40-50 lbs (minimum) of these guys lbm.

When you take that away, they compare favorably to the so-called golden age guys who trained full body and found that frequency hedged recovery and allowed more growth. It’s a wash! But, because splits are “particularly effective” when recovery isn’t an issue, the presence of roids pushes these guys in the direction of splits for max gains.

This isn’t hard people.

Dude, seriously GTFO here. You have no idea what you speak of. Since the Olympia started, practically every single winner and top finisher has used splits. Vince Gironda has trained more Olympia champions (or counseled them) during the 70s and 80s then anyone else and they all did splits!

You make no sense whatsoever. if TBT was so much more effective for natural trainess as you say, it would be even more effective on juice. So let me get this straight, splits aren’t effective for a nuaturall trainee, but suddenly become effective for someone that is juiced?

So I guess all the strength coaches, trainers, etc. who are prescribing splits to their clients successfully like Thibs, Poliquin, Staley, etc. are somehow doing it wrong? But your God: Waterbury is right?[/quote]

This thread is about this topic- if you don’t like it, then YOU GTFO.

I have explained why AAS is particularly effective with splits and the advantages aren’t the same with full body (it has to do w/ volume and recovery).

Re-read my posts about all the guys other than Waterbury that I’m referring to:

Brian Haycock
Joel Marion
Thibaudeau (read yesterday’s article, dumbass)
Starr
Rippetoe
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

443

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Would it be right to assume if i got a respirator my overall performance at school, and the weightroom would be better, on top of it being easier to get up in the morning?

edit, off to the weightroom, I’ll be back later. Thanks for the insight prof and cephalic.[/quote]

I can’t even describe how much better some guys I know feel after getting whatever therapy they got.

Night and day.

Good luck.

444

[quote]trextacy wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
COME ON!!! We need a list of HUGE bodybuilders who used TBT to build the majority of their size. Can we start with just ONE name?

IF YOU REALLY, REALLY THINK THAT THE MASS MONSTERS AND HEAVYWEIGHTS SIZE WAS BUILT “PRIMARILY” BECAUSE THE TRAINED INTENSLY WITH SPLITS, THEN YOU ARE NAIVE.

Professor- listen to me. I’m being dead serious. I get the impression that you think you are going to blast the shit out of your muscles, eat until your stomach is distended.

Finish up your 12 year “bulk” and that someday, somehow, you will have the physique like one of the “HUGE” (as you say) professional IFBB heavyweight bodybuilders WITHOUT GETTING ON GEAR OF SOME SORT. Unless you have Vic Richards’ genetics (he had help too) it will not happen.

If it hasn’t happened already, it won’t happen.

How old are you now?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. People are actually, citing every roided up mass monster in support of their position without acknowledging that roids play a part in about 40-50 lbs (minimum) of these guys lbm.

When you take that away, they compare favorably to the so-called golden age guys who trained full body and found that frequency hedged recovery and allowed more growth. It’s a wash! But, because splits are “particularly effective” when recovery isn’t an issue, the presence of roids pushes these guys in the direction of splits for max gains.

This isn’t hard people.

Dude, seriously GTFO here. You have no idea what you speak of. Since the Olympia started, practically every single winner and top finisher has used splits. Vince Gironda has trained more Olympia champions (or counseled them) during the 70s and 80s then anyone else and they all did splits!

You make no sense whatsoever. if TBT was so much more effective for natural trainess as you say, it would be even more effective on juice. So let me get this straight, splits aren’t effective for a nuaturall trainee, but suddenly become effective for someone that is juiced?

So I guess all the strength coaches, trainers, etc. who are prescribing splits to their clients successfully like Thibs, Poliquin, Staley, etc. are somehow doing it wrong? But your God: Waterbury is right?

This thread is about this topic- if you don’t like it, then YOU GTFO.

I have explained why AAS is particularly effective with splits and the advantages aren’t the same with full body (it has to do w/ volume and recovery).

Re-read my posts about all the guys other than Waterbury that I’m referring to:

Brian Haycock
Joel Marion
Thibaudeau (read yesterday’s article, dumbass)
Starr
Rippetoe
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.[/quote]

Maybe you should spend less time reading and more time doing.

445

A small part of me just died.

446

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
trextacy wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
COME ON!!! We need a list of HUGE bodybuilders who used TBT to build the majority of their size. Can we start with just ONE name?

IF YOU REALLY, REALLY THINK THAT THE MASS MONSTERS AND HEAVYWEIGHTS SIZE WAS BUILT “PRIMARILY” BECAUSE THE TRAINED INTENSLY WITH SPLITS, THEN YOU ARE NAIVE.

Professor- listen to me. I’m being dead serious. I get the impression that you think you are going to blast the shit out of your muscles, eat until your stomach is distended.

Finish up your 12 year “bulk” and that someday, somehow, you will have the physique like one of the “HUGE” (as you say) professional IFBB heavyweight bodybuilders WITHOUT GETTING ON GEAR OF SOME SORT. Unless you have Vic Richards’ genetics (he had help too) it will not happen.

If it hasn’t happened already, it won’t happen.

How old are you now?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. People are actually, citing every roided up mass monster in support of their position without acknowledging that roids play a part in about 40-50 lbs (minimum) of these guys lbm.

When you take that away, they compare favorably to the so-called golden age guys who trained full body and found that frequency hedged recovery and allowed more growth. It’s a wash! But, because splits are “particularly effective” when recovery isn’t an issue, the presence of roids pushes these guys in the direction of splits for max gains.

This isn’t hard people.

Dude, seriously GTFO here. You have no idea what you speak of. Since the Olympia started, practically every single winner and top finisher has used splits. Vince Gironda has trained more Olympia champions (or counseled them) during the 70s and 80s then anyone else and they all did splits!

You make no sense whatsoever. if TBT was so much more effective for natural trainess as you say, it would be even more effective on juice. So let me get this straight, splits aren’t effective for a nuaturall trainee, but suddenly become effective for someone that is juiced?

So I guess all the strength coaches, trainers, etc. who are prescribing splits to their clients successfully like Thibs, Poliquin, Staley, etc. are somehow doing it wrong? But your God: Waterbury is right?

This thread is about this topic- if you don’t like it, then YOU GTFO.

I have explained why AAS is particularly effective with splits and the advantages aren’t the same with full body (it has to do w/ volume and recovery).

Re-read my posts about all the guys other than Waterbury that I’m referring to:

Brian Haycock
Joel Marion
Thibaudeau (read yesterday’s article, dumbass)
Starr
Rippetoe
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Maybe you should spend less time reading and more time doing.
[/quote]

Reading and doing-- you can do both you know? Give it a shot and let me know how it goes. BTW, if you’d like to answer the post (simple acknowledgement of being wrong would suffice) you are welcome to do so. Or just gtfo.

447

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

[/quote]

This is by far my favorite training routine. I just don’t know of anyone in recent memory that has gotten huge doing it.

When you think about Dr. Ken weighing like 160lbs when he squatted 407x23. you begin to wonder.

448

[quote]trextacy wrote:

I’m asking you to respond to my question about why you don’t look anything like these IFBB heavyweights that you train like?[/quote]

Dude, no offense, but I am usually one of the biggest people in the gym. Why are you acting like that doesn’t mean anything? I started this weighing 150lbs.

[quote]

Why? Your genetics seem decent, you continuously shove food down your mouth and you train intensly on every little muscle in your body (upper and lower pecs included). You are 31. You have been at it a long while. By all accounts you are probably over 12% BF and have never been on stage. If you stay natural (assuming you always have been) then your T is only going to go lower from here on out.

Congrats on weighing a bunch, but based on your frame (I’ve seen your pics before…fully clothed except for the guns if I recall correctly) you would’ve “naturally” weighed in the 220-230 range anyways. Where to now? If you actually got in contest shape for once you probably wouldn’t be more than 220-230? Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thibs says he is around 195 in contest shape and is as much as 230-ish at other times so I’m assuming you would need to drop about 45 lbs to be stage ready.[/quote]

Do you realize how big 230lbs in contest shape is at 5’10"?

Apparently not?

449

[quote]trextacy wrote:
…
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.[/quote]

Cosgrove thinks splits are superior for bodybuilding. He prefers TBT for athletes and average people that have time constraints.

450

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
trextacy wrote:
…
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Cosgrove thinks splits are superior for bodybuilding. He prefers TBT for athletes and average people that have time constraints.[/quote]

And Poliquin’s bodycomp is for fat-loss, not bodybuilding.

451

I cant believe nobody asked this but how big are you trextacy?

452

[quote]trextacy wrote:

Re-read my posts about all the guys other than Waterbury that I’m referring to:

Brian Haycock
Joel Marion
Thibaudeau (read yesterday’s article, dumbass)
Starr
Rippetoe
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.[/quote]

Joel Marion- uses split training for adding size
Thibaudeau- recommends split training for adding size in the non-beginner
Starr- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Rippetoe- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Cosgrove- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Poliquin- uses split training for adding size AND athletic development.

Less time reading and more time understanding.

Just to be fair here, how long have you been training and how much do you weigh?

453

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
trextacy wrote:
…
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Cosgrove thinks splits are superior for bodybuilding. He prefers TBT for athletes and average people that have time constraints.

And Poliquin’s bodycomp is for fat-loss, not bodybuilding.
[/quote]

Most of these guys business’ are based on fat loss and their go to training program for fat loss is some form TBT with some form of cardio mixed in.

454

[quote]Player wrote:
I cant believe nobody asked this but how big are you trextacy?[/quote]

Didn’t he say that a page or several back ?

Nothing close to impressive, of course.

As I said, less time reading, more time doing.

He’s someone who’s read a lot of books and articles and apparently thinks that this can replace actual real-life experience.

455

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
trextacy wrote:
…
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Cosgrove thinks splits are superior for bodybuilding. He prefers TBT for athletes and average people that have time constraints.[/quote]

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/breaking_glass.htm

No, he thinks that for pros and top level amateurs…as I’ve been saying the whole time. As far as I know, no one of that cabliber has posted on here. Certainly people like Jehovah’s fitness, zephead and other noobs would not qualify (nothing personal…I certainly don’t either).

456

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
trextacy wrote:
…
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Cosgrove thinks splits are superior for bodybuilding. He prefers TBT for athletes and average people that have time constraints.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/breaking_glass.htm

No, he thinks that for pros and top level amateurs…as I’ve been saying the whole time. As far as I know, no one of that cabliber has posted on here. Certainly people like Jehovah’s fitness, zephead and other noobs would not qualify (nothing personal…I certainly don’t either).
[/quote]

You keep on posting what articles and books are telling you is right…
Do you have an actual opinion based on experience, too, or are you one of a bazillion of beginners coming here, reading stuff and then thinking they know it all ?

457

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
trextacy wrote:

Re-read my posts about all the guys other than Waterbury that I’m referring to:

Brian Haycock
Joel Marion
Thibaudeau (read yesterday’s article, dumbass)
Starr
Rippetoe
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Joel Marion- uses split training for adding size
Thibaudeau- recommends split training for adding size in the non-beginner
Starr- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Rippetoe- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Cosgrove- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Poliquin- uses split training for adding size AND athletic development.

Less time reading and more time understanding.

Just to be fair here, how long have you been training and how much do you weigh?
[/quote]

I’ve answered this twice already. More reading, less flaming. Marion’s program, Stripped Down Hypertrophy, is a hypertrophy plan.

To be a bodybuilder, you have to get strong and muscular. It is a long haul. Following a Starr, Rippetoe of Cosgrove protocol to add muscle through the intermediate stages is appropriate.

If you want to bring Poliquin into this that’s fine. I’ve had my biosig done by one of his top students. Professor X hates Poliquin of course. Poliquin would put his top level athletes on a split because they are top level. Again, that’s what I’ve said from the start.

What about Brian Haycock?

What about Thibs program from yesterday? The program is about adding muscle. It didn’t look like a beginner routine to me?

Also, re-read the roundtable on the topic-- Thibs sees both as having a place.

I can read and do. Trust me, I’m doing and working toward my goals. I probably have the fewest posts of anyone who has posted more than once in this thread, so I hardly need a lecture on how to spend my valuable time.

Unlike my brother and training partner (who posts more than I do, fwiw), I would not post pics for the same reasons that X mentioned before. I don’t need the criticism because I alread know what “needs work” (everything) and I don’t need to do that for message board street cred.

I have played a lot of sports and my weight has been all over the place depending on the goal. As for bodybuilding, I find that the “professional” look is not as appealing as the powerful look. By it’s (ETA: PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDING) nature it is a build up to a specific moment in time (the stage) and while we marvel at the end result it doesn’t seem logical to aspire to that b/c it isn’t maitained but for 24 hours. As a hobbyist/non-professional that’s my choice.

458

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
trextacy wrote:

Re-read my posts about all the guys other than Waterbury that I’m referring to:

Brian Haycock
Joel Marion
Thibaudeau (read yesterday’s article, dumbass)
Starr
Rippetoe
Cosgrove

By the way, for body comp Poliquin uses his German Body Comp program, which is, you guessed, 3x per week full body.

Read Dr. Leistner’s “Sensible Training” article.

Read the article I posted twice already in this thread.

Get a clue.

Joel Marion- uses split training for adding size
Thibaudeau- recommends split training for adding size in the non-beginner
Starr- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Rippetoe- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Cosgrove- doesnt train BODYBUILDERS
Poliquin- uses split training for adding size AND athletic development.

Less time reading and more time understanding.

Just to be fair here, how long have you been training and how much do you weigh?

I’ve answered this twice already. More reading, less flaming. Marion’s program, Stripped Down Hypertrophy, is a hypertrophy plan.

To be a bodybuilder, you have to get strong and muscular. It is a long haul. Following a Starr, Rippetoe of Cosgrove protocol to add muscle through the intermediate stages is appropriate.

If you want to bring Poliquin into this that’s fine. I’ve had my biosig done by one of his top students. Professor X hates Poliquin of course. Poliquin would put his top level athletes on a split because they are top level. Again, that’s what I’ve said from the start.

What about Brian Haycock?

What about Thibs program from yesterday? The program is about adding muscle. It didn’t look like a beginner routine to me?

Also, re-read the roundtable on the topic-- Thibs sees both as having a place.

I can read and do. Trust me, I’m doing and working toward my goals. I probably have the fewest posts of anyone who has posted more than once in this thread, so I hardly need a lecture on how to spend my valuable time.

Unlike my brother and training partner (who posts more than I do, fwiw), I would not post pics for the same reasons that X mentioned before. I don’t need the criticism because I alread know what “needs work” (everything) and I don’t need to do that for message board street cred.

I have played a lot of sports and my weight has been all over the place depending on the goal. As for bodybuilding, I find that the “professional” look is not as appealing as the powerful look. By it’s nature it is a build up to a specific moment in time (the stage) and while we marvel at the end result it doesn’t seem logical to aspire to that b/c it isn’t maitained but for 24 hours. As a hobbyist/non-professional that’s my choice.
[/quote]

He asked you for STATS, not some expanded spiel on why you won’t post pictures. I have no problem posting pictures here. I just won’t LEAVE them up in public because this site gets thousands of hits a day. they are still in my profile like they always have been.

Also, you are now adding “liar” to your resume. I have no personal problem with Poliquin aside from some of the outrageous statements he makes…just like Waterbury. Unlike Waterbury, however, he hasn’t thrown a tantrum when questioned on his “bodybuilders can’t climb stairs” comment. They are trying to sell something. They don’t give a shit about you personally and never did. Like everyone else, they have bills to pay and 25 year old phys ed coeds to pay rent for.

459

Yeah, sorry for the flaming, I just like like to argue to much. What I really was trying to prove is that if you get in the gym lift hard and make progress, who really cares what workout program you use and what you call yourself. Everyone deserves respect for hard work.

Sorry for calling you an ass prof, if you get in the gym and work hard then I have all the respect in the world for you, especially if you’re one of the few natural ones.

460

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Yeah, sorry for the flaming, I just like like to argue to much. What I really was trying to prove is that if you get in the gym lift hard and make progress, who really cares what workout program you use and what you call yourself. Everyone deserves respect for hard work.

Sorry for calling you an ass prof, if you get in the gym and work hard then I have all the respect in the world for you, especially if you’re one of the few natural ones.
[/quote]

Dude, I don’t give a shit what you think about me. I could have ended this pages ago by just pm’ing you a pic since that means so much to you. You are the one who assumed that you weren’t speaking to people more educated in ‘science’ than yourself and who hadn’t built themselves up more than most.