Aragorn: How Do You Train?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]fisch wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

No! your arms stay straight on the 6pm pull! pulling chest up means arching your upper back, not lower, like I described for the facepulls/ "standing your back to the electrified wall.

The Cressey one is the forearm slide facing the wall I believe.[/quote]

Once again, thanks for the answers! I really appreciate you taking the time to write up all of this and go into so much depth when I’m sure it would’ve been much easier for you to just say “do lower trap and scap activation”. While a simple statement like that is somewhat helpful, it doesn’t even come close to being as helpful as the write up you’ve given. I’ll give these suggestions a go when I get back into the gym either today or monday, depending on how work goes.[/quote]

Let me know how they go!
[/quote]

Done these for 2 workouts (Saturday, then this morning). Mid back was really sore/worked on Sunday, so that was pretty awesome! I’ve never used a straight bar for face pulls, and on the first rep I smacked myself in my face with the bar lol. They felt strange, but I think that’s just because I’m used to using a rope from a seated cable station.

For the I raises, I got a great contraction in my lower traps, but also from my lats and my tricep near my armpit despite only using 5 lb DB’s. Tricep was borderline cramping feeling, made it difficult to get my later reps in.

I plan on using that circuit you posted every day in the gym (5 days a week), doesn’t take too long and I love feeling my mid back actually contract!

[quote]fisch wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]fisch wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

No! your arms stay straight on the 6pm pull! pulling chest up means arching your upper back, not lower, like I described for the facepulls/ "standing your back to the electrified wall.

The Cressey one is the forearm slide facing the wall I believe.[/quote]

Once again, thanks for the answers! I really appreciate you taking the time to write up all of this and go into so much depth when I’m sure it would’ve been much easier for you to just say “do lower trap and scap activation”. While a simple statement like that is somewhat helpful, it doesn’t even come close to being as helpful as the write up you’ve given. I’ll give these suggestions a go when I get back into the gym either today or monday, depending on how work goes.[/quote]

Let me know how they go!
[/quote]

Done these for 2 workouts (Saturday, then this morning). Mid back was really sore/worked on Sunday, so that was pretty awesome! I’ve never used a straight bar for face pulls, and on the first rep I smacked myself in my face with the bar lol. They felt strange, but I think that’s just because I’m used to using a rope from a seated cable station.

For the I raises, I got a great contraction in my lower traps, but also from my lats and my tricep near my armpit despite only using 5 lb DB’s. Tricep was borderline cramping feeling, made it difficult to get my later reps in.

I plan on using that circuit you posted every day in the gym (5 days a week), doesn’t take too long and I love feeling my mid back actually contract![/quote]

Great to hear! It’s a fantastic feeling mate. There are other variations you can use when this has done its job too.

Regarding the I raises to the 6pm position, It will help to lessen the tricep contraction if you keep the elbows “soft” like you keep the knees “soft” on a Romanian deadlift–not locked out but extended almost all the way, ya dig? Locking out the triceps all the way sort of allows them to help the motion more, because if you’re not careful you can turn it into a tricep kickback instead of a mid-back movement.

Like I said, the I raise/swing really fires up a lot of the shoulder complex as well as the low traps/mid back. Great for a lot of things. The other way I use the I raise is as a dumbbell row, but with kettlebells. You can use this to use heavier weight on the motion and get some actual muscle growth out of it–use it as a finishing movement for a super heavy dumbbell row/strict kb back swing superset. Absolutely no pause at the top (it will be impossible anyways). Aim for an intermediate term goal of doing strict swings with the 60 lb dumbbells. I try to resist the first part of the eccentric, but then just relax and let it go.

The warning with that though is that you have to have fixed your actual problem with recruitment and feeling the low traps/mid back first–if you rush it you can start to compensate with bad motor patterns because of the heavier weight and won’t feel it well at all. This is definitely one of those “feel above all else” movements.

Oh, and if you’re really sadistic, you can use the kb “I raise” swings and do “muscle-rounds” as a standalone assistance exercise. Basically take a db or kb you can do 12 good quality “feeling it” swings and do 6, then switch hands and do 6, then back with no rest. Go until you’ve done 24 total reps a side (4 rounds).

Basically as so: left 6, right 6 (round 1), left 6, right 6 (round 2), 6, 6, (round 3), 6, 6 (round 4), then rest.

I’m using a particularly nasty variation with one of my clients on our back specialization days. He’s 65 years old and has a back most people half his age would envy. I’d like to eventually write an actual article on some of the things I’m doing.

Haven’t forgotten about this thread, going to post my recent training styles, shit just went crazy at work so I don’t have time for any lengthy posts. I’m busy trying to fix a $300,000 machine lol.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Haven’t forgotten about this thread, going to post my recent training styles, shit just went crazy at work so I don’t have time for any lengthy posts. I’m busy trying to fix a $300,000 machine lol.[/quote]

That sucks with work, get to your write up whenever you get time. I’m definitely interested!

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
SHOULDERS

I’ve changed up shoulder training over the years and am pretty happy with all the things I’ve tried. For much of the time I’ve trained shoulders as an assistance exercise for the purpose of bringing up my bench. This means they were never very often the focus of my training because I was focused on the big three and didn’t want a “shoulder day” or any such thing. However, as I’ve gotten more into phases of aesthetic training I’ve noticed a couple things really worked for me. LONG POST AHEAD–for the ADD people bullet point #1 is rear delts (this post). #2 is lateral delts–next post.

  1. Note on rear delts–3D shoulders are as much about the back as the shoulders themselves. lots, and I mean frequent, work on the rear delts–and low traps–helps a ton. It not only makes your shoulders rounder it really helps stabilize the joint for the movements that will really put meat on them and keeps you injury free. Low trap work isn’t really self-evident, but it plays a role in the stabilization of the structures. I mean, you can’t really get focused on shoulder training if you have constant pain there. Besides which, chronic weakness in the structural stabilizers leads to decreased neural drive as a physiological safety mechanism even if you’re pain free. SO, here’s what I have done.

At the beginning of every workout in the week, I have a face pull, pull-apart, or high row as part of my weighted warm-up. As I have been doing frequent training up until the past few weeks, that has amounted to about 6 days a week for a year and change. 3-4 sets x 5-6 days x a year. It’s quick and painless, takes 5-6 minutes max.

My warm-up circuit was this, or a variation: power snatch from hang x 3-5 reps, plyo push-ups or something, face-pull 6-8 reps, lower body exercise or jump, and roman chair. Essentially hit all major movement planes, but it adds up to a lot if you do it every day: 3 sets power snatch + 3 sets face-pull = 6 sets. 6 sets x 5 days is pretty good weekly volume, and it’s a warm-up.

FYI I am/was pressing overhead 4 days a week, and at least 2 days of power snatch work. For a long time my recent routines had 4 days of power snatching, 2 light 2 heavy, with 2-3 days of overhead pressing in addition to that. It was all low rep olympic based stuff (1-5 reps).

When I did “back days” before going to the high frequency set-up I would also sometimes go through periods of focusing on this as a finisher or part of a tri-set or something. Never the main focus per se, but there. Can’t remember where I came up with it–I may have gotten the idea from CT years ago perhaps–but basically: 10-2 raises, rear delt flyes, and then rear delt swings all in a superset with no rest for 8-12 reps each. This was all done lying the wrong way on an adjustable incline bench set to mid/low incline. Too high and you get upper traps taking over.

I came up with the swings myself as far as I know although I am quite sure that they’ve been done before–one of the best back movements there is and also one of the best for rear delts depending on how you tweak the motion and if the delts have been pumped/fatigued prior. A
basic swing is this:

Use bench like you’re going to do dumbbell rows. Instead, grab a kettlebell–they work with db’s as well but this is one of very few movements I far prefer a kettle for. Now, set up hand/knee on the bench arm hanging down. Push the chest up without leaning up (essentially arching) and keep the shoulders perfectly parallel to the ground. Hold the chest up and starting from a dead stop swing the kb to your hip. Arm should remain very close to your body and you should thing of “stretching” your back, or lengthening the space between head and tailbone.

This is not a row to the hip, it is a swing–very much like a reverse hyper is not a hamstring curl but a swing from a dead stop. You might keep “soft knees” but you don’t flex your knees when you do a reverse hyper and you shouldn’t flex your arm when you do these. Palm facing floor when the bell is at your hip (facing towards your head when hanging down).

Do muscle-rounds (thanks CT): 6 reps left, 6 right, 6 left, 6 right, etc. That’s 4 rounds of 6 reps a side with no rest. Light weight–this is a feel exercise getting started and if you fuck up the feel you can’t get the most out of them. Start just regular sets of 10 to get a feel, then after a couple days of doing it switch to the rounds. Once you get the feel you can go heavy. These also hit the lats hard btw, depending on your grip style. For rear delts these are most effective after face-pulls or something you can really feel in your delts rather than lats. As I mentioned, you can also do these lying face down on an incline bench.[/quote]

Aragorn,

I just wanted to thank you for writing this, and let you know that I’ve found it really helpful.

After reading about how you train shoulders, I’ve been training them 3X per week, starting off with a lot of push pressing, working on sets of 5 or 6 until I have to drop the weight, then hitting sets of 8-10 until fatigued. Not doing your program really, but you gave me the idea to get more volume in on an OHP movement and to train them with more frequency. I decided on the push press, and I’m getting A LOT more volume this way. I’ve also been incorporating your kettlebell swing for the rear delt as a superset with DB laterals. I like using the Kettlebell a lot, although I’m recruiting a lot of tri so I may have to keep playing with that. If you have a video, please post. Anyway, my delts have been SUPER hard for me to progress.

2012 was my year for legs. 2013 I worked really hard on delts. 2014 will be another year of DELTS - hopefully done right. I have seriously been cooking them with the increased volume. Thank you so much for taking the time.

One other thing - I don’t drink coffee, so my caffeine intake is pretty minimal. I like to drink iced green tea, a couple of cups a day. Anyway, Chris Colucci had mentioned preworkout caffeine. I don’t know why I hadn’t tried it before - super natty and all :slight_smile: - but I can work harder and get more volume in if I take 200 mgs 30 minutes before training. This is probably not news to anyone here, but it was one of those things that I wish I’d tried three years ago.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
2) Lateral delts have responded to high volume and high frequency for me. Bodybuilding style it’s: heavy strength exercise, then fatigue fatigue fatigue with other exercises a couple times a week. Olympic lifting is the high frequency and honestly I’ve noticed some of my best development with these. You overhead squat, power snatch, press, and high pull 3-5 times a week and your shoulders WILL grow. That’s a promise. The Klokov Press is one of the greatest shoulder movements ever. It’s something you need proper technique for and good shoulder mobility and T-spine mobility for, but it’s great.

Essentially, it’s very simple for me–everybody remembers the old 5x5 routine, but not many people have thought to do it for shoulders. It’s not that you CAN’T…it’s just, well, it’s a) something people do for bench and squat and shit and b) too simple to possibly work!

Nope, works great. I prefer more frequency and less volume in each session. 4 times a week 3x5 with a weight you can strict press 8 times. Next week 3x6 or 4x5, and the week after 3x8, then increase the weight. The snatch grip width, hands out to the collars for me, is what makes this shine. This is in addition to anything else–the weights you can handle with crisp form are so small for most that it won’t interfere meaningfully with your benching.

Between that and the power snatch I’ve really gotten all the volume I need, and end up doing pretty good volume in a week. Typically that ends up between 25-40 sets total. BUT since I power snatch and high pull for performance and strength I don’t think of them as “shoulder movements”. They’re just athletic movements.

So it ends up being–conservatively–about 20 sets for shoulders with olympic based stuff/klokov press and about 20 sets of rear delt work in the daily warm-ups. So 40-50 sets a week. Mostly 3-5 reps in pressing stuff, 6-10 reps in pulling stuff.

Bonus is, you get strong too! haha.[/quote]

The rest of your post about training shoulders… more on incorporating Over Head Pressing with more frequency, quoted again here for people who are looking through the thread wondering what I’m referring to.