Anyone Tried CW's TBT Workout?

well can i start by saying hello to squelchy - he might remember me from somewhere. you back training again now then?

whilst im here to say hell i think id better stick my ore into the discussion. Id say beginners are probably better of starting out on fullbody workouts, till they ve developed sufficient strength, technique proprioception and knowledge.

However long term if you want a physique like the one in prof X’s picture you need to look to progress to a split routine, IMO.

the big question for me is when you make the switch i’d say about 6 months in.

[quote]crazymatt wrote:
well can i start by saying hello to squelchy - he might remember me from somewhere. you back training again now then?

whilst im here to say hell i think id better stick my ore into the discussion. Id say beginners are probably better of starting out on fullbody workouts, till they ve developed sufficient strength, technique proprioception and knowledge.

However long term if you want a physique like the one in prof X’s picture you need to look to progress to a split routine, IMO.

the big question for me is when you make the switch i’d say about 6 months in.[/quote]

If it’s personal than thats’ fine if it’s bodybuilding it should be when you look in the mirror.

I started out about a couple years ago, probably longer but I’d start then stop. Anyways I used to read all these articles and would try whatever workout I thought would appeal to me and some that didn’t and stick with it a month or 2 and go to something else because I was unhappy with my progress. I mean I’d read this shit and totally not think about what worked for me in the past figuring what I knew was old and these guys must be right. Eventually I started reading riptoe’s stuff and decided I’d give it a shot since I really had nothing to lose. So I learned I didn’t know how to squat, took me awhile I’m older and not as flexible.

Once I got my form down I went to work and I made gains not only in strength but size. I mean I was happy as hell because I was really putting some meat on. After I finished with that I was kinda lost but was directed to madcow (all these damn names for stuff I never heard of). I also gained alot of strength and size with that. In my opinion I would not have gotten the size and strength on a split. Thats it I’ve worked out before with splits and whatever and had never gotten as big or strong as I had with those two programs this was also during a time I found out I was low T and having dr.s screwing around with my hormones.

After that though like has been mentioned I had some lagging body parts and decided it was time to change to some kind of hypertrophy, even asked on the boards for some help. I went no where, reading articles, reading other peoples posts nothing seemed right. I happened to see prof x thread and finally broke down and read it. Really cleared alot of stuff up for me. Made me realize all I needed to do was a basic hypertrophy program. Low and behold he even wrote it out in that same thread and it worked. It picked up where the other two programs left off.

Now those two programs are tbt programs and all I hear is how they suck and they aren’t good for this or that. I think it’s bullshit. I think programs like the ones above really have their place and do the job they are supposed to, add strength and size. I also think though that if someone wrote out a hypertrophy program as well written as the two tbt programs I probably would have maybe gotten more size but not the strength. I have no problem switching back to a 5x5 if I need to change something or get stuck but at this point I think besides that I got all I can from it.

Alright, fair points, guys.

I’m not here to insult anyone. And I’ve stated, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, that I have nothing but respect for bodybuilding; after all, I spent the last 12 years training mostly like a bodybuilder; I still attend shows, read the mags, and just keep up on the scene. I once wanted to compete and got my bodyweight up to 250#. My goals simply changed this past year.

I’m not intolerant to either crowd at all, the guys that want to get huge and the guys who just want to be healthy and fit.

The guys who want to get healthy and fit - many of them, like me, ARE dedicated to their fitness regimen. So the word undedicated doesn’t apply! I actually get fucking pissed if I miss a workout or meal, which is rare. Can I logically be classified as undedicated? I think not. I’m dedicated to general fitness, not bodybuilding; the same goes for most men.

TBT did work for some old-timers, but bodybuilders have evolved quite a bit since then with better training and nutrition protocols.

So TBT is NOT the way to go for advanced development for what’s considered advanced and elite for this day and age. There is NOT ONE top ranking or advanced enhanced or natural bodybuilder who follows a TBT program.

And Trextacy, while your points make sense to a degree, they are still flawed being that you don’t take into the account the drawbacks of TBT for getting big.

And yeah, people can say shit like, “Well, you can do the same volume for bis; you know, still do 9 sets total for the week, but just divide it into three workouts; do 3 sets at 3 sessions per week”.

Well, folks, that line of thinking is flawed for getting huge. By the time your’e done performing squats and/or deadlifts, bench presses, lat pulldowns or chinups or pullups, and rows, you WILL NOT be able to perform in the isolation exercises like curls and triceps extensions they way you can had you trained them in the beginning of a session, which is what split routines allow for.

Likewise, if you trained arms or isolation exercises at the beginning of a TBT program, you won’t be able to give it your all to the more taxing muscle groups and exercises; perhaps not to the same degree as my former example, but it still holds true.

And like CT said, if you apply a large amount of damage to a muscle at one shot, you WILL NEED 5 to 7 days of recovery for that muscle. So that do-a-little-for-a-muscle-often argument against splits doesn’t pan out.

And I don’t see the point of arguing with men who are successful in what they do! Wake up and look the fuck around! Look at who’s successful in getting fucking huge: they ALL use split routines. So ANY argument against it is flawed.

This is the same sort of shit that one can pull if he criticized the methods of ANY GREATS in ANY field.

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Squelchy put up his pics on this thread, interestingly in another full body vs TBT war lol

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/chatroom/topic/308846/

he has changed his username from “Squelchy” to “…” .

He has some development to look above average compared to most weekend warriors, but come
on dude. The guy is a little small and a bit soft (strictly from a BBing standpoint of course) but definitely athletic-looking.

ruggerbugger wrote:
I’ve seen Squelchy on a different forum and the before and after pics are very impressive, would like to see X at 210, be good to compare

[/quote]

wow that’s pretty sad. I was expecting more than that from all the shit talking. I was way bigger than poor lil squelchy when I was 17 using a split routine.

Btw Prof, your pic doesn’t really show us anything :slight_smile: Your legs looks huge but can’t see much else hah

natty that uses Waterbury programs for size

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I’m saying that it is a fact (yes, I know what that means and if you’ve been a part of these threads before and were honest you would acknowledge it)…

Fuck you.

[/quote]

LMFAO, Bill. Very succinct. Probably your best post ever

EDIT- your not you’re. I suck

[quote]trextacy wrote:
natty that uses Waterbury programs for size

[/quote]

well hell, I could find a diamond if I looked in enough piles of shit

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
trextacy wrote:
I’m saying that it is a fact (yes, I know what that means and if you’ve been a part of these threads before and were honest you would acknowledge it)…

Fuck you.

[/quote]

wow

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
trextacy wrote:
natty that uses Waterbury programs for size

well hell, I could find a diamond if I looked in enough piles of shit[/quote]

well, the board ass-kisser has spoken.

[quote]trextacy wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
trextacy wrote:
natty that uses Waterbury programs for size

well hell, I could find a diamond if I looked in enough piles of shit

well, the board ass-kisser has spoken. [/quote]

ass kisser? least I didn’t get my ass handed to me by BR, j/k lighten up

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
trextacy wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
trextacy wrote:
natty that uses Waterbury programs for size

well hell, I could find a diamond if I looked in enough piles of shit

well, the board ass-kisser has spoken.

ass kisser? least I didn’t get my ass handed to me by BR, j/k lighten up[/quote]

I got my ass handed to me because Bill can’t read my posts and is resorting to adolescent name-calling, or because he said “fuck you” and you giggled and agreed? oh, you have Biotest supplements as your avatar…JUST KIDDING!!

My 2 points were: (1) Plenty of people have added lots of muscle with basic full body programs. Beginners to intermediates could use them to great effect without ever using a Waterbury program; and (2) the backlash against all full-body programs on this board is directly the result of CW getting under people’s skins by taking some shots at pro bb-ers a few years ago.

It’s simple.

Splits will without a doubt produce more muscular gains than TBT with all else equal.

That’s not saying TBT is bad. In fact I use it with just about all of my clients, but my clients aren’t the kind of people that come to the BB forum on this site.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
BOTH TBT and Splits leave you with lagging bodyparts.
[/quote]

I feel there’s a significant difference between the source of lagging bodyparts though. It’s not too uncommon to see a lack of direct arm work in TBT (which, coincidentally, is why a lot of people very dedicated to that method of training will have lagging arms). This is a problem of the routine, not the individual.

With split routines lagging bodyparts, in my relatively low experience, occur due to improper stimulation of the muscle while training that bodypart. For example, I noticed awhile back that my chest was not growing at the same rate as the rest of me and didn’t seem to be making much progress at all (despite my chest lifts and bodyweight going up). Problem was all my pressing movements were being done with my tris/delts, so I adjusted how I did the exercises and my chest is catching up quite quickly. The point I’m trying to make is that on most split routines any lagging parts are going to come from improper training for that bodypart, not because of they are using a split routine. While it seems, for TBT, the problem would not be how the arms, for example, are being trained but the total lack of arm training.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
It’s simple.

Splits will without a doubt produce more muscular gains than TBT with all else equal.

That’s not saying TBT is bad. In fact I use it with just about all of my clients, but my clients aren’t the kind of people that come to the BB forum on this site.[/quote]

Fair enough, but a program like madcow intermediate 5x5 that is built around progression in key lifts, with assistance thrown in will add a considerable amount of muscle.

Full body programs TEND to emphasize compound movements more, just because. I"M NOT saying that split do not.

So, for a younger trainee or an intermediate who may tend towards training ADD or may not know how to put together a proper split (there are, by defintion, more moving parts and componenets to a split), a full body A/B program like this:

A
Bench
Row
Squat
Arms assistance

B
Military Press
Pull ups
Dead
calves/traps assistance

done 3-4 times a week, would build muscle if progression were built-in and sensibly applied.

Joel Marion’s Stripped Down Hypertrophy is another full body approach.

Poliquin’s German Body Comp is another approach with different goals in mind (leaning out).

HST is another.

Ken Liestner’s “sensible training” article provides another approach.

I’m not saying that splits aren’t great or even optimum…but frequency and progressing on big movements and stimulating the whole body does have benefits that, for some, may outweigh hitting a muscle group less frequently but with more volume per session. I’m not sure why the intense emotional reaction against it, but damn.

he is the one on the left

[quote]trextacy wrote:
natty that uses Waterbury programs for size
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/pictures_pics_photo_body_rate_image_performance/8_weeks_out_1
[/quote]

He’s been training for 15 years. T-Nation hasn’t been around that long, and neither has CW. He also claims to only train on a CW-inspired program during the winter, which is only 3 months. What is he doing the rest of the time? Well, according to him a 5-way split. And I gather he probably did this ALL THE TIME before he ever read a CW article.

Don’t get me wrong, the guy looks good. But, there are too many unknowns over his 15 yr lifting career to laud him as someone who has achieved amazing results on TBT. For all we know, he could have used exclusively splits for the previous 13 yrs.

“Thank you, I trained mostly bodypart split when I was younger, sets of 8-10 i guess just typical routine… I dabbled in powerlifting from 16-18 yrs and then found T-Nation oh so long ago… I was 260 lbs at 18, 46 inch waist but decent muscle under the fat… always a big kid, got picked on for being fat yada yada…I just liked to lift as heavy as possible back then… I remember piling 14 plates a side on the leg press and trying to do the stack on all the machines, typical teenager stuff haha”

Just found this post from Peteman. Trextacy, look at how he trained when he was younger.

just an example of someone using full body programs for certain goals at certain times in a bodybuilding context. i’m not saying they are optimum at all times for all people, i’m just saying that to throw them out the door as completely incompatible with bodybuilding or only useful for the first 2 months of training is foolish.

and yes, he’s been training a while, which could also be read as showing that full body programs can be used by advanced guys, and he clearly knows his body at this point so it lends the idea even more creedence.

i just had that guy’s thread bookmarked because he’s natural (i don’t care if others are assisted, i just prefer natural myself) and he’s clearly at the tip of his genetic potential. natrual guys at the highest levels usually need to do things a bit differently than guys at the highest levels who are on gear. again, not saying anyone works harder than any one else, just that different strategies have different effects in an assisted vs unassisted person.

also, if i recall, from ACTrain’s thread he said that he made his best progress when he used a crazy full body program that had tons of volume and frequency. lots of ways to skin the cat.

and again, all the guys who have used madcow (and similar 5x5 programs) to put on their base of muscle and build their strength would dispute the premise that bodybuilding can’t involve training the entire body in a session.

Ah yes… Peteman. He is a very helpful guy. He has also experimented a lot with the Anabolic Diet. I wouldn’t go around saying that he is the poster boy for the Anabolic Diet though. The man has obiously been through many phases of his training career.