Anyone Tried CW's TBT Workout?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

We are still trying to get some proof of TBT building these great physiques like you claim. That is why I keep asking for pictures from all of you who speak so highly of it…yet for some very strange reason, very few of you ever post them.

Until you do, and until I see TBT truly creating the same results as those who follow split training with basic knowledge in full effect, then you scenario where they both reach the same level isn’t valid…it is only theory. Frankly, I am tired of the talk. I want to see RESULTS in PICTURES.

Not one person here has stopped someone from giving advice simply because they didn’t take it to pro level in terms of muscle mass. However, skinny newbs and people who won’t post pics of their amazing progress need to post less and read more unless they show they truly have experience and are not just repeating what they read somewhere.[/quote]

Once again, you are not answering the question. You are saying it’s not a valid question without pictures.

Please answer the question without adding your own stipulations to it.

[quote]Squelchy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

We are still trying to get some proof of TBT building these great physiques like you claim. That is why I keep asking for pictures from all of you who speak so highly of it…yet for some very strange reason, very few of you ever post them.

Until you do, and until I see TBT truly creating the same results as those who follow split training with basic knowledge in full effect, then you scenario where they both reach the same level isn’t valid…it is only theory. Frankly, I am tired of the talk. I want to see RESULTS in PICTURES.

Not one person here has stopped someone from giving advice simply because they didn’t take it to pro level in terms of muscle mass. However, skinny newbs and people who won’t post pics of their amazing progress need to post less and read more unless they show they truly have experience and are not just repeating what they read somewhere.

Once again, you are not answering the question. You are saying it’s not a valid question without pictures.

Please answer the question without adding your own stipulations to it.[/quote]

Are you retarded? This is a BODYBUILDING FORUM. Unless you look like one at your 210lbs, your journey to 210lbs is NOT as valid as the guy who got to that point and passed it. Why? Because your knowledge only got you to 210lbs and unless you look like a bodybuilder at that weight, you have not foiund out what works to do it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Are you retarded? This is a BODYBUILDING FORUM. Unless you look like one at your 210lbs, your journey to 210lbs is NOT as valid as the guy who got to that point and passed it. Why? Because your knowledge only got you to 210lbs and unless you look like a bodybuilder at that weight, you have not foiund out what works to do it. [/quote]

Once again, you’re not answering the question.

Are you going to give a straight answer to it or not? Because if you’re not then I’ll go watch a DVD or something.

[quote]Squelchy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Are you retarded? This is a BODYBUILDING FORUM. Unless you look like one at your 210lbs, your journey to 210lbs is NOT as valid as the guy who got to that point and passed it. Why? Because your knowledge only got you to 210lbs and unless you look like a bodybuilder at that weight, you have not foiund out what works to do it.

Once again, you’re not answering the question.

Are you going to give a straight answer to it or not? Because if you’re not then I’ll go watch a DVD or something.[/quote]

Classic. Like all the rest you won’t be posting that picture. I answered you in detail. I answered you SEVERAL times over now.

In fact, just to stop your game, your question was:

The answer AGAIN is,

This isn’t about how to look average. This is about how to look like a bodybuilder. I looked like one at 210lbs. Do you?

[quote]Squelchy wrote:

Are you going to give a straight answer to it or not? Because if you’re not then I’ll go watch a DVD or something.[/quote]

lol, now you’re just backing out of showing pictures. X has answered your question.

EDIT: Damn you and your fast fingers, X

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Classic. Like all the rest you won’t be posting that picture. I answered you in detail. I answered you SEVERAL times over now.[/quote]

No, you keep adding your own stipulations to it which I will explain below.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

In fact, just to stop your game, your question was:
“If you take two identical people following two different protocols (up to a point) then what makes one of them more qualified to talk about what it took to get up to that point than the other just because he took it further?”

The answer AGAIN is,
Unless you look like one at your 210lbs, your journey to 210lbs is NOT as valid as the guy who got to that point and passed it. Why? Because your knowledge only got you to 210lbs and unless you look like a bodybuilder at that weight, you have not found out what works to do it.[/quote]

This doesn’t explain why one person is better qualified to talk about what it took to get to 210… it means they’re better qualified to talk about what it took to get PAST 210. Not the same thing at all. Both people only got to 210 the once, using different methods, in the same time frame. One took it further, but what I’m talking about it them both talking about the exact same accomplishment, not one’s further accomplishments. Do you not see the difference here? I’m not debating the one might be better qualified to talk about taking it further. I’m talking about what makes one better than the other to talk about what they both achieved in the exact same way.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This isn’t about how to look average. This is about how to look like a bodybuilder. I looked like one at 210lbs. Do you?[/quote]

Once again you’re missiing the point and adding your own stipulations. I’m asking you to compare two identical people (say twins) who looked identical at the same weight increase having got there using different methods in the same time frame. So, once again, what qualifies the one to talk about what it took to get to that point better than the other given they both achieved the same thing in the same space of time?

[quote]Squelchy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Classic. Like all the rest you won’t be posting that picture. I answered you in detail. I answered you SEVERAL times over now.

No, you keep adding your own stipulations to it which I will explain below.

Professor X wrote:

In fact, just to stop your game, your question was:
“If you take two identical people following two different protocols (up to a point) then what makes one of them more qualified to talk about what it took to get up to that point than the other just because he took it further?”

The answer AGAIN is,
Unless you look like one at your 210lbs, your journey to 210lbs is NOT as valid as the guy who got to that point and passed it. Why? Because your knowledge only got you to 210lbs and unless you look like a bodybuilder at that weight, you have not found out what works to do it.

This doesn’t explain why one person is better qualified to talk about what it took to get to 210… it means they’re better qualified to talk about what it took to get PAST 210. Not the same thing at all. Both people only got to 210 the once, using different methods, in the same time frame. One took it further, but what I’m talking about it them both talking about the exact same accomplishment, not one’s further accomplishments. Do you not see the difference here? I’m not debating the one might be better qualified to talk about taking it further. I’m talking about what makes one better than the other to talk about what they both achieved in the exact same way.

Professor X wrote:

This isn’t about how to look average. This is about how to look like a bodybuilder. I looked like one at 210lbs. Do you?

Once again you’re missiing the point and adding your own stipulations. I’m asking you to compare two identical people (say twins) who looked identical at the same weight increase having got there using different methods in the same time frame. So, once again, what qualifies the one to talk about what it took to get to that point better than the other given they both achieved the same thing in the same space of time?[/quote]

LOL. Like I said before, you guys love talking THEORY because obviously the results can’t speak for themselves.

I have a pic ready to go of me at 210lbs. Still waiting on yours and mine will go up right afterwards.

Let’s see if your “210lbs” at about the same height actually matches my “210lbs”. That will answer your questions right there.

Comedy gold.

I, for one, did NOT gain the most of my LBM on a TBT program. The only reason I follow a TBT program now is because my fitness and life goals have changed.

I spent the first year of training with TBT programs. The first program I tried was a HIT-style program for beginners that I found in Muscle & Fitness. Then I switched over to a Bill Starr routine. After that it was all splits. And one of my biggest growth spurts in the past few years occurred when I followed a Westside routine. My neck, hamstrings, and upper back seemed to blow up in weeks on that routine, probably secondary to the all the squat and deadlift varations, upper back work, GHRs, and straining with maximal bench press variations. My bodyweight reached its highest, 245 - 250#, on that routine. I was also eating bigger than I ever did in order to get my bench up.

I’ve posted the split routine I did best with many times on this site.

I’ve been following bodybuilding for 13 years, attending shows and reading books and publications.

However, I do know there are some people who are ignorant to the world of bodybuilding and naive. They see a bodybuilding forum on a site they visit and they don’t think to themselves before posting something related to weight training, “Should I post this here? Let me think if it applies to bodybuilding in the truest sense of the word.” They don’t know the form of bodybuilding we’re speaking of here. They don’t know the techniques, history, or major players of bodybuilding. So they’re going to wind up in here. I used to be a bit more intolerant of them and their postings. That was before I came to understand human nature better.

There are plenty of things that I don’t know about or have expertise in. For example, no matter how many times a financier of any sort - a trader, analyst, stock broker, etc. - explains their job duties to me or how a financial instrument works, I NEVER EVER understand what the fuck they’re talking about. However, I’m not going to post in finance forums because I have no interest in those things. When I want to invest, I’ll educate more. But nearly all of the average public wants to lose weight or look better. So where do they wind up? Here, on internet fitness forums.

The lady simply wanted to compliment an author, an innocent, kind-hearted gesture, and then gets posts thrown at her that she probably can’t even relate to or understand. MOST women don’t apply bodybuilding standards to their opinions of male attractiveness. The guy she saw probably had the most attractive - NOT most fit in the literal sense - body in the gym. That’s how most of the general public gauges fitness: how one looks. She she asked him what methods he uses and it turns out it’s Chad Waterbury’s stuff. So she decided to throw him a compliment.

Talk of 300-pound behemoths, “70 lbs of LBM”, 405+ benches, 600+ deadlifts and squats, Dorian, Ronnie, NPC, IFBB, “dry”, “symmetry”, are completely alien to 99.9% of the population nor would they care about this lingo if they knew what it pertains to. I accept that.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I, for one, did NOT gain the most of my LBM on a TBT program. The only reason I follow a TBT program now is because my fitness and life goals have changed.

I spent the first year of training with TBT programs. The first program I tried was a HIT-style program for beginners that I found in Muscle & Fitness. Then I switched over to a Bill Starr routine. After that it was all splits. And one of my biggest growth spurts in the past few years occurred when I followed a Westside routine. My neck, hamstrings, and upper back seemed to blow up in weeks on that routine, probably secondary to the all the squat and deadlift varations, upper back work, GHRs, and straining with maximal bench press variations. My bodyweight reached its highest, 245 - 250#, on that routine. I was also eating bigger than I ever did in order to get my bench up.

I’ve posted the split routine I did best with many times on this site.

I’ve been following bodybuilding for 13 years, attending shows and reading books and publications.

However, I do know there are some people who are ignorant to the world of bodybuilding and naive. They see a bodybuilding forum on a site they visit and they don’t think to themselves before posting something related to weight training, “Should I post this here? Let me think if it applies to bodybuilding in the truest sense of the word.” They don’t know the form of bodybuilding we’re speaking of here. They don’t know the techniques, history, or major players of bodybuilding. So they’re going to wind up in here. I used to be a bit more intolerant of them and their postings. That was before I came to understand human nature better.

There are plenty of things that I don’t know about or have expertise in. For example, no matter how many times a financier of any sort - a trader, analyst, stock broker, etc. - explains their job duties to me or how a financial instrument works, I NEVER EVER understand what the fuck they’re talking about. However, I’m not going to post in finance forums because I have no interest in those things. When I want to invest, I’ll educate more. But nearly all of the average public wants to lose weight or look better. So where do they wind up? Here, on internet fitness forums.

The lady simply wanted to compliment an author, an innocent, kind-hearted gesture, and then gets posts thrown at her that she probably can’t even relate to or understand. MOST women don’t apply bodybuilding standards to their opinions of male attractiveness. The guy she saw probably had the most attractive - NOT most fit in the literal sense - body in the gym. That’s how most of the general public gauges fitness: how one looks. She she asked him what methods he uses and it turns out it’s Chad Waterbury’s stuff. So she decided to throw him a compliment.

Talk of 300-pound behemoths, “70 lbs of LBM”, 405+ benches, 600+ deadlifts and squats, Dorian, Ronnie, NPC, IFBB, “dry”, “symmetry”, are completely alien to 99.9% of the population nor would they care about this lingo if they knew what it pertains to. I accept that.

[/quote]

I think you underestimate the lady, for one. Secondly, as some pointed out, huge in a hurry hasn’t been out long, so it seems like the guy was actually new to CW’s stuff. Third, 99% of the population probably doesn’t care about chess, but that doesn’t mean that people on chess forums appreciate people coming in to talk about checkers.

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:

I think you underestimate the lady, for one. Secondly, as some pointed out, huge in a hurry hasn’t been out long, so it seems like the guy was actually new to CW’s stuff. Third, 99% of the population probably doesn’t care about chess, but that doesn’t mean that people on chess forums appreciate people coming in to talk about checkers.

[/quote]

That quilting forum didn’t seem to like us too much either.

“Third, 99% of the population probably doesn’t care about chess, but that doesn’t mean that people on chess forums appreciate people coming in to talk about checkers.”

But there’s a polite way of saying that a particular forum isn’t the right fit for a poster. You say “appreciate”. What are you, insulted by the woman coming in here without permission or initiation. What is this? A fucking Hell’s Angel bar?

Wow this thread has taken a life of its own…

I guess TBT isn’t the way to go for hypertrophy if there is so much angst towards it!!!

Prof X - what sort of program/split ddi you use and what would you recommend for increase in hypertrophy + lean body mass?

BTW, I would like to see some pics from both parties!!!

[quote]Gup wrote:
Wow this thread has taken a life of its own…

I guess TBT isn’t the way to go for hypertrophy if there is so much angst towards it!!!

Prof X - what sort of program/split ddi you use and what would you recommend for increase in hypertrophy + lean body mass?

BTW, I would like to see some pics from both parties!!!
[/quote]

Correct! TBT is NOT the way to train for success in bodybuilding.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
“Third, 99% of the population probably doesn’t care about chess, but that doesn’t mean that people on chess forums appreciate people coming in to talk about checkers.”

But there’s a polite way of saying that a particular forum isn’t the right fit for a poster. You say “appreciate”. What are you, insulted by the woman coming in here without permission or initiation. What is this? A fucking Hell’s Angel bar?
[/quote]

Insulted? Not at all. You have to decide if we are debating this one post, or the general trend of non-bodybuilding related threads in the bodybuilding forum. It was you that started the whole “99% of the population doesn’t care about bodybuilding anyway” thing. Again, my point is simply that the heading of this forum is indeed bodybuilding, and it should come as no surprise to anyone that posts are read in that context.

i’m off to go train my bi’s, calves, glutes, rear delts, lower chest. Tomorrow i’ll hit my front delt, the right side of my trap, outer quad, forearms, and lower back…

My splits are fucking crazy!!! i do one absolute “Dorian” style WARM UP SET, super light 3% of my 1RM i take it to failure usually like 187 reps, then i just do one heavy Working set 1-2 rep range (it varies based on how i’m feeling e.g. carbs, sleep, motivation) after that i hit up DD for an egg bagel and a fountain soda.

I WANTED PICS!!!

CW programs aside isn’t workouts like riptoe and madcows 5x5 total body workouts? They build alot of strength and add a lot of mass. Do you look like a bodybuilder with these? How many bodybuilders look that way all the time right? Do you want to spends years and years trying to get to 200+ pounds or go a faster route with the 2 tbt programs above or somthing like it.

Can the same progress be made with a split? Take a look and I think that the people that get the best results in terms of mass and str. gains come from these tbt workouts. (I’m talking about the 2 above) So what is better some kid or anyone doing a split worried about looking all ripped with big muscles when they don’t even have the initial size because they want to look like a bodybuilder or get on program that stress’s eating alot and lifting heavy weight.

I guess the question is if someone ate like is suggested in the above programs would they gain the same size and mass in the same amount of time doing a split? I read these forums and I see kids or guys posting pics of there puny little bodies talking about bb’ing worried about gaining weight when they just need to shutup and eat and get big then worry about maybe doing a bb workout. This is a bb forums but how many really fit in that category? I hear the argument that this is the bb forum and how many people have you seen that are bodybuilders that do tbt? I mean wtf how many bodybuilders do you see that aren’t taking steroids?(professional bodybuilders)

I guess when I read crap like this on the forums I think about the 90% who are reading just trying to find out how to get bigger and stronger and how this shit just confuses them. You cannot say that riptoe or madcows programs do not work to put on the type of mass and size that a bodybuilder wants and probably for the 90% here they will have the most success on a tbt program like this. I’m not saying that splits can’t do the same thing because I don’t know. I do know that when I started to get back in the gym this site was the worse place for me to come and after getting no where and reading how much tbt progams suck actually doing one like riptoe and madcow made an actual difference.(huge difference)

I dislike TBT for the same reasons many others don’t

& I said to someone “no-one ever got big on TBT”

his reply

“No-one ever got big from a TBT? Really?! How about every single bodybuilder from before the advent of steroids? The more extreme splits that most gym-rats seem to follow today are designed by and for chemically-assisted lifters. Not you, and not me. If you aren’t genetically gifted and taking pharma supprt, then you have no business training like a BBer.”

I have no idea how they trained back then or their sizes

anyone care to enlighten me?

What, there is no such thing as advancement of knowledge?

Today’s natural bodybuilders – almost all of whom follow split routines – don’t look, on the whole, much better than all but the very cream of the crop of old-timers did?