Anybody Good With Spreadsheets

Off Topic
41

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
No, I get what you guys are saying, but I also can tell nobody here has real programming experience. I think before you write me off you should take the time to challenge yourself and expand your mind/skills then talk to me about which is better.[/quote]

I think what you’re missing is which is better FOR WHAT FUNCTION? Each medium has their purpose and target users which is what most, if not all, but you, people who have posted in this thread are saying.

FWIW, I get what you’re saying, tend to agree that personal improvement and learning new things is generally a good thing, but not necessarily programming. It’s not for everyone and tends to serve specific functions and not all of those functions are practical in other sectors within a company or/and the real world.

Plus, learning new things is a function of expendable time. A lot of working professionals just don’t have any they’re willing to forego to learn something which would have a positive marginal benefit (at best) to them and their careers as it were.

Conversely, what constitutes “real programming experience”? How can you tell nobody here has any?

42

I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.

43

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
No, I get what you guys are saying, but I also can tell nobody here has real programming experience. I think before you write me off you should take the time to challenge yourself and expand your mind/skills then talk to me about which is better.[/quote]

I think what you’re missing is which is better FOR WHAT FUNCTION? Each medium has their purpose and target users which is what most, if not all, but you, people who have posted in this thread are saying.

FWIW, I get what you’re saying, tend to agree that personal improvement and learning new things is generally a good thing, but not necessarily programming. It’s not for everyone and tends to serve specific functions and not all of those functions are practical in other sectors within a company or/and the real world.

Plus, learning new things is a function of expendable time. A lot of working professionals just don’t have any they’re willing to forego to learn something which would have a positive marginal benefit (at best) to them and their careers as it were.

Conversely, what constitutes “real programming experience”? How can you tell nobody here has any?[/quote]

1, the questions being asked give away the posters knowledge base.

2, I said excel was good for data visualization earlier but that post was conveniently ignored

3, “Not having time” is a bullshit excuse most of the time. If someone said “I don’t have time to lift” on this forum all the trolls and internet thugs would be up their ass about “making time”.

4, hypocrisy drives me crazy. I see people here dismissing my point as if they are an authority on the subject when it is clear they lack the experience. How can one say x or y is better when an individual has only worked with x? If someone went on this forum and said something like “Ive deadlifted for 15 years and never squatted, squats have their purpose but not for me!” you bet your ass the trolls and thugs would come out of their god forsaken corners of the earth to rain fire upon the villages of the poor soul who made that statement.

5, I equate experience to writing code to solve problems, academic or industrial (to be as general as possible).

44

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
No, I get what you guys are saying, but I also can tell nobody here has real programming experience. I think before you write me off you should take the time to challenge yourself and expand your mind/skills then talk to me about which is better.[/quote]

I think what you’re missing is which is better FOR WHAT FUNCTION? Each medium has their purpose and target users which is what most, if not all, but you, people who have posted in this thread are saying.

FWIW, I get what you’re saying, tend to agree that personal improvement and learning new things is generally a good thing, but not necessarily programming. It’s not for everyone and tends to serve specific functions and not all of those functions are practical in other sectors within a company or/and the real world.

Plus, learning new things is a function of expendable time. A lot of working professionals just don’t have any they’re willing to forego to learn something which would have a positive marginal benefit (at best) to them and their careers as it were.

Conversely, what constitutes “real programming experience”? How can you tell nobody here has any?[/quote]

1, the questions being asked give away the posters knowledge base.

2, I said excel was good for data visualization earlier but that post was conveniently ignored

3, “Not having time” is a bullshit excuse most of the time. If someone said “I don’t have time to lift” on this forum all the trolls and internet thugs would be up their ass about “making time”.

4, hypocrisy drives me crazy. I see people here dismissing my point as if they are an authority on the subject when it is clear they lack the experience. How can one say x or y is better when an individual has only worked with x? If someone went on this forum and said something like “Ive deadlifted for 15 years and never squatted, squats have their purpose but not for me!” you bet your ass the trolls and thugs would come out of their god forsaken corners of the earth to rain fire upon the villages of the poor soul who made that statement.

5, I equate experience to writing code to solve problems, academic or industrial (to be as general as possible). [/quote]

dude, that’s all well and good but I don’t need to learn programming. I just don’t. It would not be an efficient use of my time. I agree with you that personal development is worthwhile and you should enhance your skill set in such a way as to benefit your career, absolutely, but it’d be like learning to drive a tank for me. Simply not needed.

45

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.[/quote]

And for what it is worth, you might be able to automate whatever you are working on with some coding background. Trust me on that.

And I know a girl who knows a guy that knows how to drive tanks. I can hook you up.

46

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
No, I get what you guys are saying, but I also can tell nobody here has real programming experience. I think before you write me off you should take the time to challenge yourself and expand your mind/skills then talk to me about which is better.[/quote]

I think what you’re missing is which is better FOR WHAT FUNCTION? Each medium has their purpose and target users which is what most, if not all, but you, people who have posted in this thread are saying.

FWIW, I get what you’re saying, tend to agree that personal improvement and learning new things is generally a good thing, but not necessarily programming. It’s not for everyone and tends to serve specific functions and not all of those functions are practical in other sectors within a company or/and the real world.

Plus, learning new things is a function of expendable time. A lot of working professionals just don’t have any they’re willing to forego to learn something which would have a positive marginal benefit (at best) to them and their careers as it were.

Conversely, what constitutes “real programming experience”? How can you tell nobody here has any?[/quote]

1, the questions being asked give away the posters knowledge base.[/quote]

You make the sweeping generalization (again) that “nobody here has real programming experience”. I know this to be untrue and giant leap based off of extremely limited data (this thread). You also did not extrapolate on what constitutes “real programming experience”. I know of at least 3 posters within this thread who have experience with programming.

[quote]
2, I said excel was good for data visualization earlier but that post was conveniently ignored[/quote]

I can not speak for anyone else, but I did not respond to this comment by you because nothing within your post elicited me to respond. It was a fairly innocuous accurate statement, self contained and succinct. Do you expect a pat on the back or validation for all your posts? It doesn’t appear you do, so I don’t understand why you feel slighted that no one responded to this.

[quote]
3, “Not having time” is a bullshit excuse most of the time. If someone said “I don’t have time to lift” on this forum all the trolls and internet thugs would be up their ass about “making time”.[/quote]

Spending time in a body building forum and saying “I don’t have time to lift” is leaps and bounds different from saying “I don’t have time to learn a programming language or two.” The last part of this statement is a strawman argument and is a logical fallacy.

We should all be actively engaged, one way or the other, in the intelligent and relentless pursuit. It’s rather unreasonable to think someone here saying they do not have the time to learn programming is just being lazy.

And, yes, it is a valid excuse as learning anything new requires ample time dedicated to studying, practice and application.

[quote]
4, hypocrisy drives me crazy. I see people here dismissing my point as if they are an authority on the subject when it is clear they lack the experience. How can one say x or y is better when an individual has only worked with x? If someone went on this forum and said something like “Ive deadlifted for 15 years and never squatted, squats have their purpose but not for me!” you bet your ass the trolls and thugs would come out of their god forsaken corners of the earth to rain fire upon the villages of the poor soul who made that statement.[/quote]

Again, you’re using a strawman argument. Squatting and C++ are not even in the same realm of life experience.

You’re advice for the OP to learn C++ to create a simple tracking database or spreadsheet is complete overkill and unreasonable for the his goals. Then you get offended when, mostly, everyone says that’s ridiculous. There’s no hypocrisy here, it’s pretty much just common sense. I’m aware of what C++ is useful for and I’m also aware it’ll take OP a helluva lot longer to learn it and master it for a task which would have taken him a fraction of the time to accomplish using Excel.

He’s not creating a database that’ll house a terabyte of data that’ll be accessed across 12 divisions. He needs to track stock and sales and perform simple margin analysis for the gym he manages. Keep it in perspective. It’s not hypocrisy, it’s common sense and pragmatism.

I got nothing for response #5.

47

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.[/quote]

And for what it is worth, you might be able to automate whatever you are working on with some coding background. Trust me on that.

And I know a girl who knows a guy that knows how to drive tanks. I can hook you up.[/quote]

Scripting/automated a spreadsheet or existing software (eg. VBA in MSOffice) is not anything remotely near “Use C++” when a spreadsheet is what’s needed, or, God forbid, even MS Access.

48

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.[/quote]

And for what it is worth, you might be able to automate whatever you are working on with some coding background. Trust me on that.

And I know a girl who knows a guy that knows how to drive tanks. I can hook you up.[/quote]

I do believe that I could use programming, but I don’t believe the benefit would be enough to justify the time spent learning it.

I also don’t believe that thing about the tank, either. Past threads have shown you’re not exactly James Bond when it comes to getting things from girls…

49

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Use c++ instead of Excel for a simple spreadsheet report.

I LOL’d.[/quote]

See it is actually a lot easier if you know what you are doing. The problem today is people are too lazy to learn anything difficult or beyond what is needed to scrape by.[/quote]

I’ve been developing software for over 20 years. If I asked you to please provide me with what the OP was asked for, and you started with C++, I would have to let you go.

I mean, to write a spreadsheet from scratch is noteworthy, however, the practicality and productivity of it is ZERO when existing spreasheet/reporting software has been around for decades.

Unless, of course, you’re setting out to write/sell spreadsheet/reporting software, which, I don’t think OP is or his initial instructions would have been “Please write me a piece of software that can report on our sales, stocks and other cool money shit… Huh? C++? I don’t care, fool, just write that shit!”

50

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Excel is great. Actually very good software. It just has weaknesses, the import being one of them as mentioned.

Nothing is perfect.

EDIT: sometimes the copy/paste is irrational and plan moronic too. [/quote]

you sure it isn’t just the user??[/quote]

Yes, lol. Look I don’t use excel as a stand alone spreadsheet machine 100% of the time. (Sometimes I do.) I use accounting specific programs with integrated Excel features, and in one major instance, built off of Excel.

There is a good portion of the package, once integrated is the opposite of “user friendly”. Yes you can figure it out, and it takes getting used to the ugliness of it, but it still functions like a 12 year put it together and had zero experience with manipulation of data or formatting before writing the code.

I’m not bashing Excel, as much as admitting it could be improved and made much more intuitive, particularly for people in my position. And the vast majority of my issues are likely the fault of shit integration between programs than a Microsoft problem.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Use ctrl + c (copy) or ctrl + x (cut) and ctrl + V (paste) Bean’s. Once you get use to it it’s a god send. [/quote]

I know you know I know you’re being a smart ass here. I obvi know HOW to copy paste… Jeez man. It’s more a problem of WHAT happens after I do, or in some instances, what doesn’t happen.

51

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m not bashing Excel, as much as admitting it could be improved and made much more intuitive, particularly for people in my position. And the vast majority of my issues are likely the fault of shit integration between programs than a Microsoft problem.
[/quote]

I know you weren’t, I was just joshin’ ya

On a side note: i really can’t believe the turn this thread has taken … just about spreadsheets FFS

52

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
No, I get what you guys are saying, but I also can tell nobody here has real programming experience.[/quote]

Lol.

I also lol’d at calling VBA a programming language.

53

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.[/quote]

I would definitely look into Google Docs then. It’s free, relatively easy to use, and accessible from anywhere.

54

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Use ctrl + c (copy) or ctrl + x (cut) and ctrl + V (paste) Bean’s. Once you get use to it it’s a god send. [/quote]

I know you know I know you’re being a smart ass here. I obvi know HOW to copy paste… Jeez man. It’s more a problem of WHAT happens after I do, or in some instances, what doesn’t happen. [/quote]

Swear to God not being a smart ass. My boss still cliks the cell, clicks the copy icon, clicks the new cell, and then clicks the paste icon. It takes like 30 seconds…

Not everyone knows the short cuts man, just offering an older dog a new trick :wink:

55

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
3, “Not having time” is a bullshit excuse most of the time. If someone said “I don’t have time to lift” on this forum all the trolls and internet thugs would be up their ass about “making time”. [/quote]

Once again, this is quite ridiculous. Polo already nailed it. When your time is scare you can only do so much. Me for example, I work 40+ hours a week, am studying for part II of the CMA exam (a 4 hour exam with a pass rate of 49%, which I take on Sunday), and am finishing up a summer graduate class in finance condensed into 8 weeks. On top of that my wife and I are house hunting and I have been working to get my current house market ready. I also lift… When should I squeeze c++ in?

[quote]
4, hypocrisy drives me crazy. I see people here dismissing my point as if they are an authority on the subject when it is clear they lack the experience. How can one say x or y is better when an individual has only worked with x? If someone went on this forum and said something like “Ive deadlifted for 15 years and never squatted, squats have their purpose but not for me!” you bet your ass the trolls and thugs would come out of their god forsaken corners of the earth to rain fire upon the villages of the poor soul who made that statement.[/quote]

People, at least I, have been simply trying to point out that there is a time and place for programming and a time and place to use a pre-existing solution. Excel or even Google Spreadsheet will work just fine.

I’ve tried programming and I hated it. Imo, programmers and often engineers like to fix things that aren’t broken. That’s my experience anyway.

[quote]
5, I equate experience to writing code to solve problems, academic or industrial (to be as general as possible). [/quote]

Yogi isn’t trying to solve a problem. He is trying to do some very basic analytical work.

56

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.[/quote]

I would definitely look into Google Docs then. It’s free, relatively easy to use, and accessible from anywhere. [/quote]

I think they technically changed the name to “Google Sheets” for the spreadsheet part, but yeah, I think this is probably the best way to go too.

Just set up a google account using your work email, create the file, and then share it with whoever else needs to use it.

For most purposes, it is nearly identical to Excel, so if you learn Excel, it works the same. Data entry, formulas, charting, printing is all there.

57

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I literally have no reason to dedicate the time to learn computer programming. I manage a gym, and need to knock up a couple of spreadsheets to keep track of stock and various other day to day things. I do not work in a field that requires computer programming.[/quote]

I would definitely look into Google Docs then. It’s free, relatively easy to use, and accessible from anywhere. [/quote]

I think they technically changed the name to “Google Sheets” for the spreadsheet part, but yeah, I think this is probably the best way to go too.

Just set up a google account using your work email, create the file, and then share it with whoever else needs to use it.

For most purposes, it is nearly identical to Excel, so if you learn Excel, it works the same. Data entry, formulas, charting, printing is all there.[/quote]

Ya could be.

Excel is a bit more polished, but, absolutely they’re essentially the same thing. I use it a lot for group projects at school.

58

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Excel sucks because it is terrible for handling and manipulating large quantities of data. Excel is meant for doing simple calculations and visualizing simple data. Sure, it is useful if you’ve got, say, a bar graph with 5 categories…but what if you have 10,000 data points and you need to find a correlation within them? Good fucking luck in excel. Personally, I like using C++, and MATLAB is not matched for data visualization. [/quote]

Do squats suck because they are terrible at developing the biceps?

I happen to think squats are fantastic. I try not to get down on them just because my guns aren’t very impressive.

Do you believe C++ would be a more appropriate tool for Yogi to first learn and then apply to solve the problem his boss has presented him with?

My opinion is that Excel is a fine tool for what Yogi is trying to do. He could take all of that extra time he might have spent learning C++ and use it to get some more squats in.

Excel is a pillar of modern business across the globe. That’s a fact, regardless of your personal opinion of the software. It works extraordinarily well. My experience is that it starts to break when some IT guys bite off more than they can chew with their decision to use it for applications that are beyond its scope of usefulness.
[/quote]

1, I didn’t tell him what he should or shouldn’t do, I stated what software I like.

2, how much real programming have you done? As somebody who knows 4 languages (python, C++, MATLAB, VBA) and has worked on many projects, including developing a post processing code for XFLR5 (an aerodynamic analysis program), I can tell you directly excel has it’s strengths in user friendliness, and data visualization. It is not strong for data processing, analysis, or general programming, but it is useful for doing quick calculations.
[/quote]

I find it unusual that my first call-out on a weight lifting forum is to prove my programming skills that I never claimed to have. Since we’re counting VBA as a language I think it is fair to include both SQL and the VLOOKUP function as languages, so my total is three.

I am a Business Analyst, so these sort of things are kind of on the fringe of what I do. Tools for occasional use. I spend more time on working out the problems with business leaders and writing functional specifications for new developments with ERP software, not to mention some home brew applications from time-to-time. I work very closely with programmers.

One thing I’ve learned in over 10 years of doing this is that EVERYONE loves when their multimillion dollar ERP software spits whatever they want right out into Excel. That can’t ALWAYS happen, but it often can. We make this happen not because Excel sucks, but because it does not and it is nearly ubiquitous business software.

My proficiency with Excel has been a tremendous advantage for me in my career, but I suppose I should consider myself lucky that I’ve managed to scrape out a living without having learned C++.

59

Me: Knock on neighbour’s door.
Me: “Dan, I need something to dig a hole in the ground”
Dan: “What you doing?”
Me: “Got 2 tomatoes to plant”
Dan: “Bobcat’s out the back, key’s in the ignition”
Me: “I don’t know how to drive a bobcat!”
Dan: “Learn, the bobcat, won’t take long to learn, digs a great hole and might get you a job as well”
Me: “Errr. Really? Is there something else?”
Dan: “Hmmm… there’s a hole-borer, do you an excellent job, faster to learn than the bobcat”
Me: “WTF is a hole-borer?”
Dan: “Easier than a bobcat, digs a good hole”
Me: “Can I have a shovel?”
Dan: “Shovels aren’t the best at diggings holes, lots of labour. Limited by how hard you can stomp down. You gonna dig out a trench with a shovel, psssh. Just a crap tool”
Me: “It seems easiest though”
Dan: “Piss off you lazy fucker”

60

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Me: Knock on neighbour’s door.
Me: “Dan, I need something to dig a hole in the ground”
Dan: “What you doing?”
Me: “Got 2 tomatoes to plant”
Dan: “Bobcat’s out the back, key’s in the ignition”
Me: “I don’t know how to drive a bobcat!”
Dan: “Learn, the bobcat, won’t take long to learn, digs a great hole and might get you a job as well”
Me: “Errr. Really? Is there something else?”
Dan: “Hmmm… there’s a hole-borer, do you an excellent job, faster to learn than the bobcat”
Me: “WTF is a hole-borer?”
Dan: “Easier than a bobcat, digs a good hole”
Me: “Can I have a shovel?”
Dan: “Shovels aren’t the best at diggings holes, lots of labour. Limited by how hard you can stomp down. You gotta dig out a trench with a shovel, psssh. Just a crap tool”
Me: “It seems easiest though”
Dan: “Piss off you lazy fucker”[/quote]

Lol, spot on.