Side note: My GF has a more impressive upper back than OP
and I wish this thread would get a tablespoon in Super Aids right in its butt
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]Rock978 wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
2x bodyweight is impressive to absolutely nobody. I don’t care how much weight you are pulling nobody should ever brag about their hyoooge 2x bodyweight pull. In fact it isn’t close to any records at all, and is probably still a painfully average lift at that weight.
[/quote]
You worry too much about how much someone weighs. Worry more about how much you can lift and lifting more, not how much you can lift in proportion to your weight and how to improve that proportion.
Also, you’re absolutely in no position to say an 800 lb deadlift isn’t impressive (neither am I, but I don’t run around saying stupid shit like that).[/quote]
Are you saying that you looked at my log and think that I shouldn’t comment on people who weigh as much as an entire family of 4 lifting weights that aren’t even close to a deadlift world record, saying that it is unimpressive, when I personally haven’t pulled over 450 yet?[/quote]
According to powerliftingwatch.com’s rankings (which are probably the best around), for SHW, the 20th ALL TIME best deadlift is 848. I’d say a 800 pound deadlift, AT ANY BODY WEIGHT, is fucking AWESOME. You’re clearly not at all in touch with the weights actually being lifted in meets.
And there’s a lot of guys here who bench more than you squat. You should probably be a little more humble.[/quote]
I may be a bit out of it, admittedly, but if you actually took time to read my own statements, and compare them to my own admitted lifts (on this website, in my log) you will see what my opinion of my own lifts really is, and what my goals actually are. It isn’t hard to put that all together. For this reason, I fail to see the humility issues here. I am assuming that we are using the word as it is defined in a standard English dictionary.
[/quote]
You want to put an 800lb deadlift by a shw at the same level of your deadlift. That’s a huge “humility issue”.
[quote]trivium said:
None of this changes the fact that I don’t think that a 2x bodyweight deadlift is impressive for 99% of everyone who ever thought about touching a barbell.
[/quote]
Do you understand the difference between a linear andnon-linear relationship? And wtf is this “99%” b.s.? Dont make me look up what 1% top deadlift #'s ACTUALLY ARE. …maybe I should since you’re fucking so out of touch.
[quote]trivium said:
For instance, a 500 lb deadlift from a 200 lb guy is much more impressive to me than a 600 lb deadlift from a 300 lb guy. I am also still not convinced that I should be impressed by the 400 lb guy deadlifting 800 lbs. I almost expect it if you are going to justify being 180 lbs heavier than a guy like Ed Coan lifting 100 lbs more than that person. (Yes I realize Ed Coan was a freak of nature.)
That sort of thing just isn’t my cup of tea.[/quote]
I dont think powerlifing is your cup of tea. Maybe try crossfit.
[quote]xneverbackdown wrote:
and I wish this thread would get a tablespoon in Super Aids right in its butt[/quote]
Nice. I dont think these kind of juvenile commets are actually helpful.
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I may be a bit out of it, admittedly, but if you actually took time to read my own statements, and compare them to my own admitted lifts (on this website, in my log) you will see what my opinion of my own lifts really is, and what my goals actually are. It isn’t hard to put that all together. For this reason, I fail to see the humility issues here. I am assuming that we are using the word as it is defined in a standard English dictionary.
[/quote]
You want to put an 800lb deadlift by a shw at the same level of your deadlift. That’s a huge “humility issue”.
[quote]trivium said:
None of this changes the fact that I don’t think that a 2x bodyweight deadlift is impressive for 99% of everyone who ever thought about touching a barbell.
[/quote]
Do you understand the difference between a linear andnon-linear relationship? And wtf is this “99%” b.s.? Dont make me look up what 1% top deadlift #'s ACTUALLY ARE. …maybe I should since you’re fucking so out of touch.
[quote]trivium said:
For instance, a 500 lb deadlift from a 200 lb guy is much more impressive to me than a 600 lb deadlift from a 300 lb guy. I am also still not convinced that I should be impressed by the 400 lb guy deadlifting 800 lbs. I almost expect it if you are going to justify being 180 lbs heavier than a guy like Ed Coan lifting 100 lbs more than that person. (Yes I realize Ed Coan was a freak of nature.)
That sort of thing just isn’t my cup of tea.[/quote]
I dont think powerlifing is your cup of tea. Maybe try crossfit.
[/quote]
Come on man you’re too old for this. I would expect a serious lifter to know better. Also I’m wondering if you intended to name yourself gooch or not lol.
You sure as shit have no right to tell people what is and is not “their cup of tea”. All the strongest guys I’ve met have never been that pretentious.
I don’t think it’s “out of touch” to say a double bodyweight deadlift isn’t impressive lol.
Hahaha, what happened to this thread, Csulli why are you debating PLing with a bunch of yuppies, it’s hard to deadlift when your worried about breaking a nail, haha it’s easier to just talk about charts, and scale. how much stronger I am than everyone else, when you devide my body weight by my 200lb deadlift, and multiply that by my huge IQ, you end up with a 1000lb deadlift, and I never left my computer. There Csulli now you can get back to lifting, before they suck you into the vortex of charts, foam rolling, and overhead squats, lol
.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I may be a bit out of it, admittedly, but if you actually took time to read my own statements, and compare them to my own admitted lifts (on this website, in my log) you will see what my opinion of my own lifts really is, and what my goals actually are. It isn’t hard to put that all together. For this reason, I fail to see the humility issues here. I am assuming that we are using the word as it is defined in a standard English dictionary.
[/quote]
You want to put an 800lb deadlift by a shw at the same level of your deadlift. That’s a huge “humility issue”.
[quote]trivium said:
None of this changes the fact that I don’t think that a 2x bodyweight deadlift is impressive for 99% of everyone who ever thought about touching a barbell.
[/quote]
Do you understand the difference between a linear andnon-linear relationship? And wtf is this “99%” b.s.? Dont make me look up what 1% top deadlift #'s ACTUALLY ARE. …maybe I should since you’re fucking so out of touch.
[quote]trivium said:
For instance, a 500 lb deadlift from a 200 lb guy is much more impressive to me than a 600 lb deadlift from a 300 lb guy. I am also still not convinced that I should be impressed by the 400 lb guy deadlifting 800 lbs. I almost expect it if you are going to justify being 180 lbs heavier than a guy like Ed Coan lifting 100 lbs more than that person. (Yes I realize Ed Coan was a freak of nature.)
That sort of thing just isn’t my cup of tea.[/quote]
I dont think powerlifing is your cup of tea. Maybe try crossfit.
[/quote]
Come on man you’re too old for this. I would expect a serious lifter to know better. Also I’m wondering if you intended to name yourself gooch or not lol.
[/quote]
[quote]csulli wrote:
You sure as shit have no right to tell people what is and is not “their cup of tea”. All the strongest guys I’ve met have never been that pretentious.
I don’t think it’s “out of touch” to say a double bodyweight deadlift isn’t impressive lol.[/quote]
It’s impressiveness increases as the lifter gets heavy. An 800lb deadlift by a 400lb guy is not anywhere close as easy to achieve as a 400lb deadlift as a 200lb guy. That should be obvious to any “serious lifter”.
And I sure as shit find it just ridiculous to imply that Benedikt’s Magnusson’s world record deadlift, at “only” ~2.5x BW is just as impressive as some 150lb guys 375lb deadlift. You do understand that is what is being argued here, right (and for fucks sake, not this particular example, but the idea)?
‘Gooch’ is from the show “Different Strokes”. It’s also a last name “lol”.
^Thank you, Goo. Trivium must have been small and insecure as a kid, or maybe he’s lost and doesn’t realize this is the powerlifting forum. Hopefully he can drop 20 pounds without losing much on his lifts, then his lifts would become much more impressive!
Guys, I am not going to fight with you anymore, I just don’t have time and neither of us is going to change our positions on things. My mentality is that if you are going to be THAT big, you should be THAT strong. I expect a lifter who is going to weigh 400 lbs to be able to deadlift 800. I really don’t care how close to the 20th best lift it is. I am not in to bariatric powerlifting. There are not many 800 lb deadlifters out there, but there are also not that many 400 lb powerlifters. The combination of the two is not super impressive to me because of my expectations of a person that large. I really dislike the “anything over 5 reps” group that inhabits this board.
I am not insecure about anything so much that I have to lift more than everyone else in the world no matter what I weigh (even if it isn’t going to be a world record, and nobody will ever remember me when I eventually have to stop going to the gym). I am not the one who is upset that someone thinks my lifts aren’t great, and I don’t really care. That is not what keeps me coming back to the gym day after day. Those reasons are my own. Again, if you perused my log, the answer wouldn’t be that hard to find. I don’t exactly hide it.
I am also not offended by your crossfit remark, because I don’t mind them. There are a lot of good people who do crossfit and don’t act like jerks, just like PL. I do not define myself by my lifts either, so your mocking them isn’t really upsetting. I have other things that are priorities, and other things that I feel are more valuable than a total. I do feel like it is a shame that you have that attitude though, as I feel like that is the kind of stuff that divides people, not helps them progress and grow as a person via their workouts (which is the real reason I go to the gym).
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.
Not mocking your lifts, but your attitude of “relative bodyweight strength over anything else”, which doesn’t reflect the reality of the difficulty of obtaining high bodyweight relative lifts at higher bodyweights.
How about 240 bench at ~130lbs (since, you know, that’s “the same” as having a 370 bench at 200): Strenght vs Volume - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
[quote]trivium wrote:
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.[/quote]
I can hit it for 5 as a 181 if that’s worth anything.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.[/quote]
I can hit it for 5 as a 181 if that’s worth anything.[/quote]
Maybe some McDonalds money. 
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.[/quote]
I can hit it for 5 as a 181 if that’s worth anything.[/quote]
I don’t know man, you’re 3 short. =]
I’ve seen your lifts in various places on here, and they reflect my end goals. I may never get there, but I am willing to make a run for it.
Feel free to post in my log whenever you want. I am a believer in “if you want to be where someone is, do what they did.” When you do, PM me where to send the McDonald’s money? (Srs.)
This should also serve to answer the OP’s question if he is even still reading the shitstorm I have created.
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.[/quote]
I can hit it for 5 as a 181 if that’s worth anything.[/quote]
I don’t know man, you’re 3 short. =]
.[/quote]
Yeah, but 18lbs lighter. Figured coefficient would come into play, although 181 definitely isn’t my walking around weight.
[quote]goochadamg wrote:
Not mocking your lifts, but your attitude of “relative bodyweight strength over anything else”, which doesn’t reflect the reality of the difficulty of obtaining high bodyweight relative lifts at higher bodyweights.
How about 240 bench at ~130lbs (since, you know, that’s “the same” as having a 370 bench at 200): http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/strenght_vs_volume
[/quote]
My computer crashes every time I try to view the link for some reason.
I do recognize that the lighter guys are going to lift a higher ratio to their weight in a lot of cases (due to different levers, and what not), and to answer your question, both are impressive to me.
I personally want to be a bit heavier than 130 (I do admit to having some sort of physique goal as well), so I aspire to be more like the 200 lb guy. 220’s who press 405 are awesome too. If I thought I could be 220, that is what I would weigh, but I honestly think I am built to be around 181 and I don’t have good levers for anything. That is where I feel I will carry the most lean weight and have my highest hp to wt ratio some day. Would I be stronger at 300 lbs? Probably, but that sort of thing does not interest me.
I do also recognize that there comes a point where that standard (1.8 BP) isn’t capable of being met anymore. At that point, I don’t see the point of just being heavier for the sake of lifting more. It seems pretty pointless to me. (No I am not saying that 1.8 is my standard for bench. I just used that to make my point.)
I hope that answers your question.
I do think everyone should find what they think is impressive and work to hit that, and I do recognize that some people don’t like ratios. That is fine. I like them.
Do you think a guy who weighs 350 lbs and totals an elite 1730 total in the super heavy weight class is as impressive as a guy totaling elite 1655 in the 275’s?
Both are elite, but the heavier guy is stronger.
Also, this is way up there on my list of impressive shit. Probably top 5 impressive lifts of all time to me.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.[/quote]
I can hit it for 5 as a 181 if that’s worth anything.[/quote]
I don’t know man, you’re 3 short. =]
.[/quote]
Yeah, but 18lbs lighter. Figured coefficient would come into play, although 181 definitely isn’t my walking around weight.
[/quote]
The ratio on my squat to morning bodyweight is 1.9656164651653354.
The ratio on your bench to your competition bodyweight is 1.955661684651651.
I haven’t developed a policy on rounding yet…
What is your walking around weight? I have just started to read more about making a proper cut. I find it fascinating.
Also, why do you lift in 181? Don’t you think you would be stronger if you weighed 400 lbs?
SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE THIS THREAD BEHIND THE BARN AND PUT IT OUT OF ITS MISERY
[quote]trivium wrote:
How is the 800 lb dl more impressive. Heavier lifters should lift more weight. It isn’t like they have to carry 2x as much skeletal tissue and organs. They should have a greater degree of muscle mass relative to what a normal guy has.[/quote]
There are a lot of silly posts in this thread, but this one is so ridiculous I have to call you out.
First off, muscle mass goes up by volume while muscle strength goes up by cross sectional area. In general this means that a doubling of the muscle mass will only lead to about 56% more muscle strength.
Second, bone, tendon, ligament, and joint strength become the limiting factors at very heavy lifts and it tends to be much more difficult to increase these. There’s a reason that light bench pressers use wide grips and huge arches while the best heavy benchers use a fairly flat back and basically shoulder width grip. When you’re benching 200lbs, your joints can take the strain you put on them. At 700lbs, you need to make sure that the muscles are taking the load or you’ll just end up in the hospital.
Third, the heavier you are the harder it is to gain muscle without gaining fat. Steroids can help with this to an extent, but it’s a limiting factor.
Finally, and most importantly, what you said is just empirically stupid. A 150lb guy deadlifting 300lb or even 365 is not too hard to find. Anybody deadlifting 800lbs is very rare. And while the first guy has probably only been seriously training for under a year (and if he has good levers and is generally strong he may not have to train deadlift at all to get there), the 800lb deadlifter has been seriously training for at least 5 years and probably more like 10-15.
So it’s your right to be ‘impressed’ by whatever you choose. But whether you look at it deductively or empirically, deadlifting 800lb is much harder and rarer. Saying otherwise is just a good way to not be taken seriously and seen as a fool.
By the way, this isn’t to say that I don’t think small guys can be impressively strong. Lamar Gant deadlifted 5x bodyweight at 132. That’s ridiculously rare and I’d be willing to put that on the same level as Benedikt Magnusson lifting 1015lbs. It’s just that #4# comparisons are more unfair to big guys than just straight up comparing the weight is to little guys. If that seems untrue tell me that you think anybody can put 3lbs on their deadlift by gaining 1lb bw (even if it’s pure muscle). It’s just not likely.
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
And to the previous comment about “a lot of people on this board” benching what I squat…If you know of someone on this board who is my weight (199.2) and they can bench 315 for 8, please do me a favor and point them in my direction. That is someone I would be interested in talking to, learning from, and watching progress. I would send you some McDonalds money or something for the find.[/quote]
I can hit it for 5 as a 181 if that’s worth anything.[/quote]
I don’t know man, you’re 3 short. =]
.[/quote]
Yeah, but 18lbs lighter. Figured coefficient would come into play, although 181 definitely isn’t my walking around weight.
[/quote]
The ratio on my squat to morning bodyweight is 1.9656164651653354.
The ratio on your bench to your competition bodyweight is 1.955661684651651.
I haven’t developed a policy on rounding yet…
What is your walking around weight? I have just started to read more about making a proper cut. I find it fascinating.
Also, why do you lift in 181? Don’t you think you would be stronger if you weighed 400 lbs?[/quote]
I walk around at about 200 when there is no meet in sight, and cut down to about 190 as a walk around weight so I can cut to 181 when I do have a meet. I compete in this weight class because my job requires me to have a sub 35" waist, and I find that I can maintain that at about 200lbs of bodyweight.