Am I Strong?

Rock978 · September 5, 2013, 1:47pm

[quote]xneverbackdown wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Your Wilks score is about 320, which is an okay score for your average powerlifter, but it’s a pretty impressive score for a sub-junior. My last year of highschool I went to provincials, and 320 would’ve put you in the top 25% of lifters there. [/quote]

I never understood wilks scoring. I just go off of whatever your lifter classification is.[/quote]

What about it don’t you understand?[/quote]
Maybe the reason for its existence? I dunno, all three of us are around the same weight, and we’re far enough on the light side that we should be Wilks fans lol. It’s usually the great big dudes who don’t care for Wilks.

I remember my dad was in the Marine Corps with this massive dude who was way stronger than everyone else. But they had some kind of strength test where they posted Wilks scores, and all these super lightweight recruits beat him on coefficient. He got super pissed and ripped it down and said “Fuck the Wilks score; I have the highest ass kicking score!”[/quote]

Odd, because you need much less #4# strength to score well on Wilks if you’re heavier.

For example, if you weigh 100 lbs and total 1000, your total is 10x body weight and your Wilks score is 518. If you weigh 200 lbs and total 2000, your total is also 10x body weight, but your Wilks score is 576. If you’re 300lbs and total 3000, same deal, but once again you have a much higher Wilks score (764!). If you weigh 300 lbs, you only need to total 2050 (6.8 x bodyweight) to beat the 100lb superstar in Wilks (522).

Your buddy must have had really shit #4# strength if he lost out to a bunch of lightweights despite this. [/quote]

Real talk. Wilks screws us light guys IMO[/quote]

Disagree. I find a 2000 total at 300 lbs to be a more impressive feat of strength than 1000 total at 100 lbs (both are terrific of course). Just my own opinion i suppose, but if you want to simply do a straight #4# comparison you’re always free to do that. I think Wilks tries to find who is the more impressive strength athlete while taking into account size, but come on a 800 lb deadlift by a 400lb guy is much more impressive than a 400 lb deadlift by a 200 lb guy, Wilks certainly shouldn’t be scoring the two the same.

RyuuKyuzo · September 5, 2013, 2:32pm

A 1000 lb total at 100 lbs would require a 2 plate bench, 3 plate squat and 4 plate deadlift (plus some change here and there). That’s a 2.25xBW bench, 3.15xBW squat and 4.05xBW deadlift. Sure, a 800 lb deadlift is godly, but it only requires half the #4# strength to achieve. That’s a huge discrepancy.

It would all even out, however, if the world’s greatest in each class had roughly the same Wilks, as it would imply the handicap given to the heavyweights is apt (assuming they all work about as hard, which I would think is the case).

I’m going by drug tested, RAW total (no wraps)

Andrzej Stanaszek clocked in 1,306 lbs in the 123 lbs class (10.6xBW). That’s good for a 541 Wilks score.

Scot Weech Jr clocked in 2,102 lbs in the 308 lbs class, which is 2 lbs better than the SWH record set by Nick Minneti. that’s a 6.8xBW total, and it’s worth a 532 Wilks score, which is pretty damn close.

One weight class lower (275) and you have Konstantinovs’s famous 2171 lb total, which is a 7.9xBW total and good for a 561 Wilks score.

And just for good measure, Sergey Fedosienko, in the 132 lb class, managed a 1,435 lb total (10.9xBW), which got him a 556 Wilks score.

The total variation in the top 2 and bottom 2 weight classes is 29 points. I’d say that’s pretty fair.

Rock978 · September 5, 2013, 2:46pm

I wasn’t comparing the 800 lb deadlift with the 1000 lb total example. It was a comparison between a 800 lb DL @ 400 lbs and a 400 lb DL @ 200 lbs. Simply making the point that two guys who are the same strength #4# should not be scoring the same on Wilks, in response to a claim that the small guys get screwed by Wilks.

But good stuff on the rest of it.

AnytimeJake · September 5, 2013, 2:49pm

Skinney people spend to much time thinking, and not enough time lifting, and eating !

RyuuKyuzo · September 5, 2013, 2:54pm

[quote]Rock978 wrote:
I wasn’t comparing the 800 lb deadlift with the 1000 lb total example. It was a comparison between a 800 lb DL @ 400 lbs and a 400 lb DL @ 200 lbs. Simply making the point that two guys who are the same strength #4# should not be scoring the same on Wilks, in response to a claim that the small guys get screwed by Wilks.

But good stuff on the rest of it. [/quote]

It wasn’t really meant to be a direct response to you, just “thinking out-loud”.

RyuuKyuzo · September 5, 2013, 2:59pm

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Skinney people spend to much time thinking, and not enough time lifting, and eating ![/quote]

Well, I hope you’re not talking about me, since you and I weigh about the same. Your BMI is actually slightly lower than mine, making you “skinnier” than me.

xneverbackdown · September 7, 2013, 12:10am

I wish this thread would get Super Aids

trivium · September 8, 2013, 1:40am

All of the aforementioned posts are why I don’t understand wilks scoring.

trivium · September 8, 2013, 1:42am

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]xneverbackdown wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Your Wilks score is about 320, which is an okay score for your average powerlifter, but it’s a pretty impressive score for a sub-junior. My last year of highschool I went to provincials, and 320 would’ve put you in the top 25% of lifters there. [/quote]

I never understood wilks scoring. I just go off of whatever your lifter classification is.[/quote]

What about it don’t you understand?[/quote]
Maybe the reason for its existence? I dunno, all three of us are around the same weight, and we’re far enough on the light side that we should be Wilks fans lol. It’s usually the great big dudes who don’t care for Wilks.

I remember my dad was in the Marine Corps with this massive dude who was way stronger than everyone else. But they had some kind of strength test where they posted Wilks scores, and all these super lightweight recruits beat him on coefficient. He got super pissed and ripped it down and said “Fuck the Wilks score; I have the highest ass kicking score!”[/quote]

Odd, because you need much less #4# strength to score well on Wilks if you’re heavier.

For example, if you weigh 100 lbs and total 1000, your total is 10x body weight and your Wilks score is 518. If you weigh 200 lbs and total 2000, your total is also 10x body weight, but your Wilks score is 576. If you’re 300lbs and total 3000, same deal, but once again you have a much higher Wilks score (764!). If you weigh 300 lbs, you only need to total 2050 (6.8 x bodyweight) to beat the 100lb superstar in Wilks (522).

Your buddy must have had really shit #4# strength if he lost out to a bunch of lightweights despite this. [/quote]

Real talk. Wilks screws us light guys IMO[/quote]

Disagree. I find a 2000 total at 300 lbs to be a more impressive feat of strength than 1000 total at 100 lbs (both are terrific of course). Just my own opinion i suppose, but if you want to simply do a straight #4# comparison you’re always free to do that. I think Wilks tries to find who is the more impressive strength athlete while taking into account size, but come on a 800 lb deadlift by a 400lb guy is much more impressive than a 400 lb deadlift by a 200 lb guy, Wilks certainly shouldn’t be scoring the two the same.[/quote]

How is the 800 lb dl more impressive. Heavier lifters should lift more weight. It isn’t like they have to carry 2x as much skeletal tissue and organs. They should have a greater degree of muscle mass relative to what a normal guy has.

Rock978 · September 8, 2013, 11:28am

It’s far more impressive for me to see a human deadlift 800 lbs than it is to see a human deadlift 400 lbs. I really don’t give a damn what either guy weighs at that point to be honest.

Don’t get me wrong, top guys at any weight class impress me. But I just don’t give this fascination with ratios to bw as far as lifts go, it’s about being strong damnit, regardless of your body weight.

trivium · September 8, 2013, 7:52pm

[quote]Rock978 wrote:
It’s far more impressive for me to see a human deadlift 800 lbs than it is to see a human deadlift 400 lbs. I really don’t give a damn what either guy weighs at that point to be honest.

Don’t get me wrong, top guys at any weight class impress me. But I just don’t give this fascination with ratios to bw as far as lifts go, it’s about being strong damnit, regardless of your body weight. [/quote]

2x bodyweight is impressive to absolutely nobody. I don’t care how much weight you are pulling nobody should ever brag about their hyoooge 2x bodyweight pull. In fact it isn’t close to any records at all, and is probably still a painfully average lift at that weight.

Now, Richard Hawthorne is a different kind of strong. He is also the definition of what a genetically gifted deadlifter looks like.

T3hPwnisher · September 8, 2013, 7:55pm

Are we really arguing over what is impressive?

It’s a subjective standard. You cannot say what is or is not impressive, as it all depends on what impresses the viewer.

trivium · September 8, 2013, 8:55pm

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Are we really arguing over what is impressive?

It’s a subjective standard. You cannot say what is or is not impressive, as it all depends on what impresses the viewer.[/quote]

Yes. I believe that is what this thread was designed to do.

T3hPwnisher · September 8, 2013, 9:06pm

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Are we really arguing over what is impressive?

It’s a subjective standard. You cannot say what is or is not impressive, as it all depends on what impresses the viewer.[/quote]

Yes. I believe that is what this thread was designed to do.[/quote]

We will have to agree to disagree.

DonDooley · September 8, 2013, 9:16pm

[quote]xneverbackdown wrote:
I wish this thread would get Super Aids[/quote]

+1

Rock978 · September 9, 2013, 5:54pm

[quote]trivium wrote:

2x bodyweight is impressive to absolutely nobody. I don’t care how much weight you are pulling nobody should ever brag about their hyoooge 2x bodyweight pull. In fact it isn’t close to any records at all, and is probably still a painfully average lift at that weight.
[/quote]

You worry too much about how much someone weighs. Worry more about how much you can lift and lifting more, not how much you can lift in proportion to your weight and how to improve that proportion.

Also, you’re absolutely in no position to say an 800 lb deadlift isn’t impressive (neither am I, but I don’t run around saying stupid shit like that).

trivium · September 10, 2013, 3:45am

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

2x bodyweight is impressive to absolutely nobody. I don’t care how much weight you are pulling nobody should ever brag about their hyoooge 2x bodyweight pull. In fact it isn’t close to any records at all, and is probably still a painfully average lift at that weight.
[/quote]

You worry too much about how much someone weighs. Worry more about how much you can lift and lifting more, not how much you can lift in proportion to your weight and how to improve that proportion.

Also, you’re absolutely in no position to say an 800 lb deadlift isn’t impressive (neither am I, but I don’t run around saying stupid shit like that).[/quote]

Are you saying that you looked at my log and think that I shouldn’t comment on people who weigh as much as an entire family of 4 lifting weights that aren’t even close to a deadlift world record, saying that it is unimpressive, when I personally haven’t pulled over 450 yet?

goochadamg · September 10, 2013, 4:04am

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

2x bodyweight is impressive to absolutely nobody. I don’t care how much weight you are pulling nobody should ever brag about their hyoooge 2x bodyweight pull. In fact it isn’t close to any records at all, and is probably still a painfully average lift at that weight.
[/quote]

You worry too much about how much someone weighs. Worry more about how much you can lift and lifting more, not how much you can lift in proportion to your weight and how to improve that proportion.

Also, you’re absolutely in no position to say an 800 lb deadlift isn’t impressive (neither am I, but I don’t run around saying stupid shit like that).[/quote]

Are you saying that you looked at my log and think that I shouldn’t comment on people who weigh as much as an entire family of 4 lifting weights that aren’t even close to a deadlift world record, saying that it is unimpressive, when I personally haven’t pulled over 450 yet?[/quote]

According to powerliftingwatch.com’s rankings (which are probably the best around), for SHW, the 20th ALL TIME best deadlift is 848. I’d say a 800 pound deadlift, AT ANY BODY WEIGHT, is fucking AWESOME. You’re clearly not at all in touch with the weights actually being lifted in meets.

And there’s a lot of guys here who bench more than you squat. You should probably be a little more humble.

trivium · September 10, 2013, 4:36am

[quote]goochadamg wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

2x bodyweight is impressive to absolutely nobody. I don’t care how much weight you are pulling nobody should ever brag about their hyoooge 2x bodyweight pull. In fact it isn’t close to any records at all, and is probably still a painfully average lift at that weight.
[/quote]

You worry too much about how much someone weighs. Worry more about how much you can lift and lifting more, not how much you can lift in proportion to your weight and how to improve that proportion.

Also, you’re absolutely in no position to say an 800 lb deadlift isn’t impressive (neither am I, but I don’t run around saying stupid shit like that).[/quote]

Are you saying that you looked at my log and think that I shouldn’t comment on people who weigh as much as an entire family of 4 lifting weights that aren’t even close to a deadlift world record, saying that it is unimpressive, when I personally haven’t pulled over 450 yet?[/quote]

According to powerliftingwatch.com’s rankings (which are probably the best around), for SHW, the 20th ALL TIME best deadlift is 848. I’d say a 800 pound deadlift, AT ANY BODY WEIGHT, is fucking AWESOME. You’re clearly not at all in touch with the weights actually being lifted in meets.

And there’s a lot of guys here who bench more than you squat. You should probably be a little more humble.[/quote]

I may be a bit out of it, admittedly, but if you actually took time to read my own statements, and compare them to my own admitted lifts (on this website, in my log) you will see what my opinion of my own lifts really is, and what my goals actually are. It isn’t hard to put that all together. For this reason, I fail to see the humility issues here. I am assuming that we are using the word as it is defined in a standard English dictionary.

None of this changes the fact that I don’t think that a 2x bodyweight deadlift is impressive for 99% of everyone who ever thought about touching a barbell.

For instance, a 500 lb deadlift from a 200 lb guy is much more impressive to me than a 600 lb deadlift from a 300 lb guy. I am also still not convinced that I should be impressed by the 400 lb guy deadlifting 800 lbs. I almost expect it if you are going to justify being 180 lbs heavier than a guy like Ed Coan lifting 100 lbs more than that person. (Yes I realize Ed Coan was a freak of nature.)

That sort of thing just isn’t my cup of tea.

Facepalm_Death · September 10, 2013, 5:15am