I have been doing some training and i wanted to move onto madcow 5x5 i started stalling on my atg squts and ohp. im 5’8 about 180 lbs and my 5rm maxes are
squat 275 x5
OHP 135 x5
Bench 200 lbs x5
Row 140 x5
DL after doing sets of squats my 5rm is 280 lbs but im sure if i only deadlifted i could do more.
I’m reposting this to remind you of the advice Jim Wendler personally gave you just a few weeks ago.
If you want to do 5/3/1, do that. If you want to do Madcow, do that. Your numbers aren’t terrible or rank beginner, but they’re not spectacular. If you need a label, I’ll call you a semi-experienced beginner.
Good news is, if you keep lifting and eating right, you’ll improve. So do it.
Oh shit i really did not believe that was jim wendler i thought it was some random dude on the internet lol. Ever since that post my lifts went up my 1 rep maxes are 325lbs squat 230 lbs bench 157 ohp. My question is what is better for faster gains? should i stay on 3x5 and try to deload or move onto madcow at this point? I am looking for the program that will make me strong the fastest. At the same time i am concerned with weight gain although i have gotten stronger i am fatter old pants no longer fit. I wan strength but i dont want to be a fatass who can only perfom in the weight room but not in real life.
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
Oh shit i really did not believe that was jim wendler i thought it was some random dude on the internet lol.[/quote]
::Asks question in ‘Jim Wendler 5/3/1’ Forum, gets reply from Jim Wendler, doesn’t believe it’s Jim Wendler::
Okay, but that’s a pretty big fumble on your part.
In six weeks, your squat went up 50 pounds, your bench 10, and your overhead 20? Spectacular. Sounds like you overcame those plateaus, so why change?
Getting strong quickly isn’t 5/3/1, so that’s out (your loss). I’ll say do Madcow starting tomorrow, not Saturday, not Monday. Get a good night’s sleep and then attack it.
You’re up 10 pounds bodyweight in 14 months. If that’s fat enough to make your pants not fit (presuming you mean around the waist), your diet is shit and you didn’t build muscle. What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?
You had similar concerns in Oct last year. They were nonsense then and they’re nonsense now. You’ll become a fatass if you let yourself, and based on what you said, you’re letting yourself. If you eat right and train hard, you won’t.
Chris thanks for the reality check, i am letting myself go i have eaten a shit ton of junk food ever since i started working at a mall, full pizzas burritos steak n cheese subs buffalo wings the whole shabang.
Im gonna check my bodyweight today im only estimating how fat ive gotten since i been in denial and have not gotten on a scale for fear of how fat ive gotten. My goals are to get stronger i want to squat 405 by the end of 2014 but at the same time i dont want to put on much fat. How do i go about this? people say that to get strong you must eat like a beast and some of the best lifters ive seen are huge for example strongmen.
But my goal is to be in the middle strong but not fat so how do i go about this what do i eat? Some people say eat alot to grow but if you eat alot you become fat? I dont mean to argue with anyone here on the forums but i just need a good kick in the ass to set me in the right path. I have gained a lot of strength since i first started went from not being able to bench 135lbs to doing 225 x2 two days ago.
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
Chris thanks for the reality check, i am letting myself go i have eaten a shit ton of junk food ever since i started working at a mall, full pizzas burritos steak n cheese subs buffalo wings the whole shabang.
Im gonna check my bodyweight today im only estimating how fat ive gotten since i been in denial and have not gotten on a scale for fear of how fat ive gotten. My goals are to get stronger i want to squat 405 by the end of 2014 but at the same time i dont want to put on much fat. How do i go about this? people say that to get strong you must eat like a beast and some of the best lifters ive seen are huge for example strongmen.
But my goal is to be in the middle strong but not fat so how do i go about this what do i eat? Some people say eat alot to grow but if you eat alot you become fat? I dont mean to argue with anyone here on the forums but i just need a good kick in the ass to set me in the right path. I have gained a lot of strength since i first started went from not being able to bench 135lbs to doing 225 x2 two days ago.[/quote]
You will get fat if you eat alot of SHIT. Eat alot of clean food and you may gain little bit of fat if in a big surplus but I promise you won’t get fat.
12 Eggs Daily Half and Half Yoke to White
2 pounds of Chicken
2 cups Rice (pre cooked size)
1 1/2 cups Oats (pre cooked size)
Olive oils and Peanut Butters
Vegetables
^^^^ that is alot of food. But I promise of you eat that you will not get fat.
I can share my own personal experience with doing what it sounds like you want to accomplish. At 2 inches taller than you and a similar weight, I squatted 405 this year. My best squat the previous year was 335 I believe. Or something close to that. I did it mostly through 5/3/1 style training, with bbb assistance work. I followed the plan loosely, but the structure was the same.
As far as diet goes… you don’t have to eat like shit to eat a lot. ‘Beasts’ don’t necessarily sit around eating buffalo wings and pizza all day. This should have been obvious. Clean up your diet. If you make better food choices, things are likely to sort themselves out, because you’ll also likely eat less. That’s ok. I honestly don’t eat that much compared to a lot of lifters on here, and I’ve still made good progress through the years. And I’ve stayed lean. Any pictures on my profile or my RMP section are pretty much indicative of my year-round leanness.
Hope this helps.
Yeah you’re strong enough to do either program. As others have said, just start.
I weighed myself and i gained about 40 lbs im 206 pounds about 20 was fat and 20 muscle i let myself go. Can i do madcow and lose 10 to 15 lbs of fat while getting stronger?
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
I weighed myself and i gained about 40 lbs im 206 pounds about 20 was fat and 20 muscle i let myself go. Can i do madcow and lose 10 to 15 lbs of fat while getting stronger?[/quote]
You can do any program in the world, even the one called “BURN FAT WHILE JERKING OFF”
but if you eat like a fat-man, guess what 
Train hard, no doubt
but people lose weight without ever touching treadmill or a dumbbell. It’s called DIET.
Don’t try to be sly and beat the system by eating shit and then lifting a few weights. You will lose that game.
Yes, you can get stronger while losing weight. It’s called training hard, and eating right.
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
I weighed myself and i gained about 40 lbs im 206 pounds[/quote]
This past March you were 163, so you put on those 40 pounds just over the last 9 months.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_beginner/will_increasing_my_calories_help_my_recovery
Somewhere along the way, or really all along the way, the idea really should’ve been to keep an eye on how the gains were progressing. Especially since your strength gains were disproportionate to your bodyweight gains. Gaining weight faster than you gain comparable strength (or consistently gaining weight but inconsistently gaining strength) is a trap some guys do fall into, and it’s not a pretty one.
Says who?
You keep asking what program to do and people pretty much keep telling you. I’m not sure what answer you want to hear.
But, yes, to repeat everything you’ve been told by a bunch of smart guys for over a year… if you eat right (which you haven’t been) and train hard on a well-designed plan (which you may or may not have been), you’ll get where you want to go.
you shouldn’t be condemned for putting so much importance on what you are doing that you are scared to commit to a solution. That is natural. You have to reconsider though. You aren’t choosing a career, nor a wife, nor between life and death. You are choosing to pick between one way or another you are going to pick shit up and put it down.
How do i solve this? im starting madcow tomorrow but i need a solid diet plan to slowly lose some of the fat i have gained. I want to loose 10 to 15 lbs of fat. I just need a good way to lose the fat. I have been eating clean the last 2 days but i have been feeling somwhat sick and stressed im not sure if my body is reacting to the low ammount of calories or i am burning of muscle. I got the program i want to do now i just need a simple weight loss program to lose 10 to 15 lbs of fat.
I think these guys,(who I believe are correct)are trying to tell you 2 things: 1)do madcow if you want to, it will make you bigger and stronger 2)eat clean foods. That, s it! When we first start out, many of us stress about things that after we train for a while seem pointless stuff to have worried about. IMO, eat healthy foods like reed said. Dont worry about how much, just eat it. Lift heavy and hard. You will build muscle and the fat will gradually melt away. Stop worrying so much,if you can.
will i need to count my calories? or can i just get to my goals by virtue of doing madcow and eating less junk.
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
will i need to count my calories? or can i just get to my goals by virtue of doing madcow and eating less junk.[/quote]
I dont think you need to count the calories at this point and maybe never. Think about what’s happening, you decide to eat less junk, each pizza, you dont eat and each coke you dont drink will make massive changes to your calorie intake. You are also building more muscle. Those 2 things combined will probably be enough to accomplish your goals. Give it a couple or a few months. If you arent happy with your waiste line, tweak your diet at that point. I remember how I was when I was first training, I felt like I needed exact guidlines for exercises, number of sets and reps, exact portions of what to eat, etc. Now I just train hard and relax. Remember this, If you train properly and eat healthy, you will get big and strong and not fat. Keep asking questions tho, if you have them. We all have stuff we would like to know. That.s how we learn. Confusion
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
will i need to count my calories? or can i just get to my goals by virtue of doing madcow and eating less junk.[/quote]
I dont think you need to count the calories at this point and maybe never. Think about what’s happening, you decide to eat less junk, each pizza, you dont eat and each coke you dont drink will make massive changes to your calorie intake. You are also building more muscle. Those 2 things combined will probably be enough to accomplish your goals. Give it a couple or a few months. If you arent happy with your waiste line, tweak your diet at that point. I remember how I was when I was first training, I felt like I needed exact guidlines for exercises, number of sets and reps, exact portions of what to eat, etc. Now I just train hard and relax. Remember this, If you train properly and eat healthy, you will get big and strong and not fat. Keep asking questions tho, if you have them. We all have stuff we would like to know. That.s how we learn. Confusion[/quote]
Thanks dude 
i appreciate the help many people get mad at me for asking these questions but what do you expect on the begginer section of T nation. I will just eat clean cut my calories a bit and do madcow. I will report back to this thread in 3 months once i am finished with madcow 5x5. i hope to be at 190 lbs by then.
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
will i need to count my calories? or can i just get to my goals by virtue of doing madcow and eating less junk.[/quote]
I dont think you need to count the calories at this point and maybe never. Think about what’s happening, you decide to eat less junk, each pizza, you dont eat and each coke you dont drink will make massive changes to your calorie intake. You are also building more muscle. Those 2 things combined will probably be enough to accomplish your goals. Give it a couple or a few months. If you arent happy with your waiste line, tweak your diet at that point. I remember how I was when I was first training, I felt like I needed exact guidlines for exercises, number of sets and reps, exact portions of what to eat, etc. Now I just train hard and relax. Remember this, If you train properly and eat healthy, you will get big and strong and not fat. Keep asking questions tho, if you have them. We all have stuff we would like to know. That.s how we learn. Confusion[/quote]
Thanks dude i appreciate the help many people get mad at me for asking these questions but what do you expect on the begginer section of T nation. I will just eat clean cut my calories a bit and do madcow. I will report back to this thread in 3 months once i am finished with madcow 5x5. i hope to be at 190 lbs by then.
[/quote]
You should stop pretending to be a beast.
Do 20 K swings in the next 4 days and be 1!
Or keep dreaming that in 9 months you added 20 in muscles.
SL (which is what I presume you were doing) has the criteria under which you move on to a weekly increment program built into it.
[quote]BHappy wrote:
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]marvin1993 wrote:
will i need to count my calories? or can i just get to my goals by virtue of doing madcow and eating less junk.[/quote]
I dont think you need to count the calories at this point and maybe never. Think about what’s happening, you decide to eat less junk, each pizza, you dont eat and each coke you dont drink will make massive changes to your calorie intake. You are also building more muscle. Those 2 things combined will probably be enough to accomplish your goals. Give it a couple or a few months. If you arent happy with your waiste line, tweak your diet at that point. I remember how I was when I was first training, I felt like I needed exact guidlines for exercises, number of sets and reps, exact portions of what to eat, etc. Now I just train hard and relax. Remember this, If you train properly and eat healthy, you will get big and strong and not fat. Keep asking questions tho, if you have them. We all have stuff we would like to know. That.s how we learn. Confusion[/quote]
Thanks dude i appreciate the help many people get mad at me for asking these questions but what do you expect on the begginer section of T nation. I will just eat clean cut my calories a bit and do madcow. I will report back to this thread in 3 months once i am finished with madcow 5x5. i hope to be at 190 lbs by then.
[/quote]
You should stop pretending to be a beast.
Do 20 K swings in the next 4 days and be 1!
Or keep dreaming that in 9 months you added 20 in muscles.[/quote]
I never once said i was a beast? a beast is someone who squats over 500 i did add 20 pounds of muscle and i am not pulling this out of my ass. I had skinfdold caliper body mass measurements 9 months ago and i did again last week.
Gaining about 20 lbs of muscle is not amazing for someone like me because i was super skinny to begin with. I had just returned from the military so putting on weight was not going to be hard.
