Alternatives to PT?

Training Injuries and Rehab
1

What are some alternatives to conventional PT? I’ve been doing PT for 8 years, probably more than 12 rounds of it with nothing to show, and no one really sure what’s wrong with my knees. Or rather, I’m sure none of them have been sure, even if they thought, or tried to make me think they were sure.

Are there any other options? PT is more and more seeming to be completely worthless for mystery problems. If you’re recovering from a surgery or definite injury, it might work but for nagging unresolved issues, they can’t help.

2

I wouldn’t be so quick to write of a profession like that. Yes I can understand why you would think that way. After 12 rounds of treatment I would have hoped for some definite progress/results.

There are a couple of things which could be happening.

  1. You have been going to the wrong PT. ie I wouldn’t take a Alfa Romeo to a BMW mechanic if I was having difficult problems with it. Have you tried different PT’s? Ones who specialise in knee dysfunction not just say they do when you ask? Are the PT’s you vist old ladies who like to place heat packs on you and not do any hard work/exercises which make sense?

  2. You have a pathology which needs corrected ie meniscus tear etc. which I would have hoped your PT or Dr would have referred for scans if they though it was appropriate. Or arthritis etc etc which can only be managed.

  3. You aren’t consistent with your exercises/something is wrong with your training.

I’m not going to speculate what is happening with you, however I will say there are many other professions which will say they can help with even less training/knowledge of the knees than a PT. Good luck with what ever approach you end up taking.

3

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:
I wouldn’t be so quick to write of a profession like that. Yes I can understand why you would think that way. After 12 rounds of treatment I would have hoped for some definite progress/results.

There are a couple of things which could be happening.

  1. You have been going to the wrong PT. ie I wouldn’t take a Alfa Romeo to a BMW mechanic if I was having difficult problems with it. Have you tried different PT’s? Ones who specialise in knee dysfunction not just say they do when you ask? Are the PT’s you vist old ladies who like to place heat packs on you and not do any hard work/exercises which make sense?

  2. You have a pathology which needs corrected ie meniscus tear etc. which I would have hoped your PT or Dr would have referred for scans if they though it was appropriate. Or arthritis etc etc which can only be managed.

  3. You aren’t consistent with your exercises/something is wrong with your training.

I’m not going to speculate what is happening with you, however I will say there are many other professions which will say they can help with even less training/knowledge of the knees than a PT. Good luck with what ever approach you end up taking.[/quote]
No scan has shown anything serious.

8 years and at least as many PT’s is not exactly “so quick.”

It seems like I’ve almost exhausted the providers in the area with a population of about 200,000.

Most of the PT’s are seeing people 10-40 years older than me(I’m 31). If not that, then it’s people who are recovering from surgery. I didn’t think of it till just now, but I can’t recall the last time I saw someone else at a PT I was seeing that was relatively young and wasn’t there to recover from a specific injury or surgery. It’s essentially a non-existent part of their clientele, but that’s what I am, so maybe it makes sense that I don’t belong there.

I just don’t know where to turn next. How can I find something else, or at least a good PT, or a doctor who will diagnose the real problem? I’ve been trying for 8 years and I have nothing to show for it whatsoever and no direction whatsoever as to how to fix my problems.

4

[quote]darsemnos wrote:

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:
I wouldn’t be so quick to write of a profession like that. Yes I can understand why you would think that way. After 12 rounds of treatment I would have hoped for some definite progress/results.

There are a couple of things which could be happening.

  1. You have been going to the wrong PT. ie I wouldn’t take a Alfa Romeo to a BMW mechanic if I was having difficult problems with it. Have you tried different PT’s? Ones who specialise in knee dysfunction not just say they do when you ask? Are the PT’s you vist old ladies who like to place heat packs on you and not do any hard work/exercises which make sense?

  2. You have a pathology which needs corrected ie meniscus tear etc. which I would have hoped your PT or Dr would have referred for scans if they though it was appropriate. Or arthritis etc etc which can only be managed.

  3. You aren’t consistent with your exercises/something is wrong with your training.

I’m not going to speculate what is happening with you, however I will say there are many other professions which will say they can help with even less training/knowledge of the knees than a PT. Good luck with what ever approach you end up taking.[/quote]
No scan has shown anything serious.

8 years and at least as many PT’s is not exactly “so quick.”

It seems like I’ve almost exhausted the providers in the area with a population of about 200,000.

Most of the PT’s are seeing people 10-40 years older than me(I’m 31). If not that, then it’s people who are recovering from surgery. I didn’t think of it till just now, but I can’t recall the last time I saw someone else at a PT I was seeing that was relatively young and wasn’t there to recover from a specific injury or surgery. It’s essentially a non-existent part of their clientele, but that’s what I am, so maybe it makes sense that I don’t belong there.

I just don’t know where to turn next. How can I find something else, or at least a good PT, or a doctor who will diagnose the real problem? I’ve been trying for 8 years and I have nothing to show for it whatsoever and no direction whatsoever as to how to fix my problems.
[/quote]

If I was in your situation I would be pretty annoyed as well. In fact I’m sure many active sportsmen have been in the same predicament.

It would seem the PT’s in your area have been focusing more on the “easier” post surgical type treatments. If that is their main caseload then I could see why you would be an outlier and much more difficult than their standard caseload. Which is why I asked if there was a well trained PT in your area specialising.

If you are unable to find someone to pay to give you the answers you require I would suggest you do a little bit to educate yourself so that you at least understand your condition and know how to proceed.

What did your PT’s say was wrong with your knee?. If you remember then look up on the internet and see what you can find.
There could be a range of things going on but a starting point would be to look up old T-Nation posts/articles, certain mobility exercises, glute activation exercises…
Good luck!

5

find a PT that specialises in sports injury

6

[quote]darsemnos wrote:
What are some alternatives to conventional PT? I’ve been doing PT for 8 years, probably more than 12 rounds of it with nothing to show, and no one really sure what’s wrong with my knees. Or rather, I’m sure none of them have been sure, even if they thought, or tried to make me think they were sure.

Are there any other options? PT is more and more seeming to be completely worthless for mystery problems. If you’re recovering from a surgery or definite injury, it might work but for nagging unresolved issues, they can’t help. [/quote]

Here is a very, very valuable bit of information. One of THE hardest things to teach properly is glute activation.

All of the best corrective exercise guys, robertson, cressey, boyle teach alot of different things. BUT they all can get the glutes working properly which is very, very, very RARE.

I’d be anything your issue comes down to glute activation exercises being done incorrectly.

Now I could be wrong, but that is the most obvious problem.

7

Options do exist. It is a bit strange that after 2-3 PT you did not look elsewhere.
Ankle problem is a maybe, looking at the knee it would look fine but pay the price for being part of a weak chain. Obviously upper problem in the chain(glute)also would make sense.
An accupuntor, a chiro, ART, Grayson are ways that help some.
Always go to a visit with old shoes to show how they look to give an idea of your situation.
All the best !

8

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]darsemnos wrote:
What are some alternatives to conventional PT? I’ve been doing PT for 8 years, probably more than 12 rounds of it with nothing to show, and no one really sure what’s wrong with my knees. Or rather, I’m sure none of them have been sure, even if they thought, or tried to make me think they were sure.

Are there any other options? PT is more and more seeming to be completely worthless for mystery problems. If you’re recovering from a surgery or definite injury, it might work but for nagging unresolved issues, they can’t help. [/quote]

Here is a very, very valuable bit of information. One of THE hardest things to teach properly is glute activation.

All of the best corrective exercise guys, robertson, cressey, boyle teach alot of different things. BUT they all can get the glutes working properly which is very, very, very RARE.

I’d be anything your issue comes down to glute activation exercises being done incorrectly.

Now I could be wrong, but that is the most obvious problem.[/quote]

I’m highly skeptical of that diagnosis. My knees feel TOTALLY out of whack, and no amount ogf glue work has ever helped. And one PT I spend 1.5 years working with said I was pretty much good in that regard but I still felt terrible.

9

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]darsemnos wrote:
What are some alternatives to conventional PT? I’ve been doing PT for 8 years, probably more than 12 rounds of it with nothing to show, and no one really sure what’s wrong with my knees. Or rather, I’m sure none of them have been sure, even if they thought, or tried to make me think they were sure.

Are there any other options? PT is more and more seeming to be completely worthless for mystery problems. If you’re recovering from a surgery or definite injury, it might work but for nagging unresolved issues, they can’t help. [/quote]

Here is a very, very valuable bit of information. One of THE hardest things to teach properly is glute activation.

All of the best corrective exercise guys, robertson, cressey, boyle teach alot of different things. BUT they all can get the glutes working properly which is very, very, very RARE.

I’d be anything your issue comes down to glute activation exercises being done incorrectly.

Now I could be wrong, but that is the most obvious problem.[/quote]

Though I suppose it couldn’t hurt anything to try that again, harder.

10

Yea here is the thing. I have clients tell me they feel their glutes like crazy and I know for a fact they can’t feel them. Later on when they actually start working they realize they weren’t feeling the glutes at all.

I’ve had clients get injured skiing etc… go to great PTs and come back in with glutes completely shut off.

The odds your PTs knew how to activate glutes is extremely low.

11

[quote]darsemnos wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]darsemnos wrote:
What are some alternatives to conventional PT? I’ve been doing PT for 8 years, probably more than 12 rounds of it with nothing to show, and no one really sure what’s wrong with my knees. Or rather, I’m sure none of them have been sure, even if they thought, or tried to make me think they were sure.

Are there any other options? PT is more and more seeming to be completely worthless for mystery problems. If you’re recovering from a surgery or definite injury, it might work but for nagging unresolved issues, they can’t help. [/quote]

Here is a very, very valuable bit of information. One of THE hardest things to teach properly is glute activation.

All of the best corrective exercise guys, robertson, cressey, boyle teach alot of different things. BUT they all can get the glutes working properly which is very, very, very RARE.

I’d be anything your issue comes down to glute activation exercises being done incorrectly.

Now I could be wrong, but that is the most obvious problem.[/quote]

Though I suppose it couldn’t hurt anything to try that again, harder. [/quote]

Try this. Get on all fours, keep your lower back in neutral. Press your heel straight back. SLOWLY. VERY SLOWLY. RIDICULOUSLY SLOWLY. You will not feel anything for a bit, but slowly it will start to turn on. Do not squeeze your butt actively. Just go slow and push through the heel. Give me some feed back on how you are doing.

I guarantee your PT was not hitting your glutes properly.

12

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]darsemnos wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]darsemnos wrote:
What are some alternatives to conventional PT? I’ve been doing PT for 8 years, probably more than 12 rounds of it with nothing to show, and no one really sure what’s wrong with my knees. Or rather, I’m sure none of them have been sure, even if they thought, or tried to make me think they were sure.

Are there any other options? PT is more and more seeming to be completely worthless for mystery problems. If you’re recovering from a surgery or definite injury, it might work but for nagging unresolved issues, they can’t help. [/quote]

Here is a very, very valuable bit of information. One of THE hardest things to teach properly is glute activation.

All of the best corrective exercise guys, robertson, cressey, boyle teach alot of different things. BUT they all can get the glutes working properly which is very, very, very RARE.

I’d be anything your issue comes down to glute activation exercises being done incorrectly.

Now I could be wrong, but that is the most obvious problem.[/quote]

Though I suppose it couldn’t hurt anything to try that again, harder. [/quote]

Try this. Get on all fours, keep your lower back in neutral. Press your heel straight back. SLOWLY. VERY SLOWLY. RIDICULOUSLY SLOWLY. You will not feel anything for a bit, but slowly it will start to turn on. Do not squeeze your butt actively. Just go slow and push through the heel. Give me some feed back on how you are doing.

I guarantee your PT was not hitting your glutes properly.
[/quote]

How slow is ridiculously slowly?

Also, when I do this, it makes my non-working glute burn WAY MORE than my working glute. It’s the non-working glute that makes me need to stop.

13

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:

[quote]darsemnos wrote:

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:
I wouldn’t be so quick to write of a profession like that. Yes I can understand why you would think that way. After 12 rounds of treatment I would have hoped for some definite progress/results.

There are a couple of things which could be happening.

  1. You have been going to the wrong PT. ie I wouldn’t take a Alfa Romeo to a BMW mechanic if I was having difficult problems with it. Have you tried different PT’s? Ones who specialise in knee dysfunction not just say they do when you ask? Are the PT’s you vist old ladies who like to place heat packs on you and not do any hard work/exercises which make sense?

  2. You have a pathology which needs corrected ie meniscus tear etc. which I would have hoped your PT or Dr would have referred for scans if they though it was appropriate. Or arthritis etc etc which can only be managed.

  3. You aren’t consistent with your exercises/something is wrong with your training.

I’m not going to speculate what is happening with you, however I will say there are many other professions which will say they can help with even less training/knowledge of the knees than a PT. Good luck with what ever approach you end up taking.[/quote]
No scan has shown anything serious.

8 years and at least as many PT’s is not exactly “so quick.”

It seems like I’ve almost exhausted the providers in the area with a population of about 200,000.

Most of the PT’s are seeing people 10-40 years older than me(I’m 31). If not that, then it’s people who are recovering from surgery. I didn’t think of it till just now, but I can’t recall the last time I saw someone else at a PT I was seeing that was relatively young and wasn’t there to recover from a specific injury or surgery. It’s essentially a non-existent part of their clientele, but that’s what I am, so maybe it makes sense that I don’t belong there.

I just don’t know where to turn next. How can I find something else, or at least a good PT, or a doctor who will diagnose the real problem? I’ve been trying for 8 years and I have nothing to show for it whatsoever and no direction whatsoever as to how to fix my problems.
[/quote]

If I was in your situation I would be pretty annoyed as well. In fact I’m sure many active sportsmen have been in the same predicament.

It would seem the PT’s in your area have been focusing more on the “easier” post surgical type treatments. If that is their main caseload then I could see why you would be an outlier and much more difficult than their standard caseload. Which is why I asked if there was a well trained PT in your area specialising.

If you are unable to find someone to pay to give you the answers you require I would suggest you do a little bit to educate yourself so that you at least understand your condition and know how to proceed.

What did your PT’s say was wrong with your knee?. If you remember then look up on the internet and see what you can find.
There could be a range of things going on but a starting point would be to look up old T-Nation posts/articles, certain mobility exercises, glute activation exercises…
Good luck!
[/quote]

I’m too frustrated to do it on my own. I get so upset that I can’t think straight. I need help and no one in the industry seems to be competent.