Hello. I’m kinda macho, and my mostly feminist wife just said that I am extremely macho. I asked her and yeah, that’s what she said. I’m also a father to a really fine 14 year old girl, and an uncle/father to a great 20 year old nephew. I have responsibilities to others, and part of that is setting a good example. I have a really cool IQ, write published stories and poetry, build wild Linux clusters, and have a great combo-bench in my garage. I believe that we men have an obligation to lead, to set a good example for others, that we are our brothers keeper. For example, today when I washed my car, I also washed my neighbors van in his driveway. Why not? I even used Armor-All on his tires.
Zev, interesting topic. Here’s the score as I see it so far:
Agree very much with what Hyok said (as usual). I think that anyone who’s lived in an Asian culture, or been exposed to Asian influences through their parents, etc. is going to have a much wider definition of “manliness” than another person who is mono-cultural. And boy does it show.
Krak has a very good point about homosexuals wearing their sexuality on their sleeves. I have nothing against homosexuality (or any adult consent sexuality) per se, male or female. But when someone makes a huge point out of streesing their sexual orientation within the first 5 minutes of meeting me (and this happened soooo much at college), it bothers in very much the same way as fundamentalist Christians coming up and saying "Hi, I'm John. Have you been saved?" Kind of ironic, when you think about it...
Colin is also on target with his criticism of the word "homophobic" - as though one could not object to gays or the gay lifestyle without somehow being afraid of them/it. What a crock. It's this type of linguistic hijacking that makes me very suspicious of the whole PC movement - they do it all the time, and it is in most instances a substitute for true academic thought/argumentation.
Finally, I personally am NOT PC in the slightest, but it's not because I feel like I have to play a macho role or because I'm uneducated or anything else along those lines. It's because (having read and heard enough "Feminist Theory" to choke an elephant) I find "feminist thought" to be derivitive and sterile. What good does any of it do you? Does it make you a better citizen? Does it prepare you for a job? Does it have ANY application to the real world? NOPE. And that's why I stay away from it.
Finally, about being a T-Man: I think that any man has some feminine in him (and would be pretty scary if he didn’t) and the reverse holds true for women. No contradiction there. Everyone molds him/herself into their own T-ideal, which is different from person to person. But it’s the molding itself that counts. In that, I think we here are all the same.
My definition of masculinity embraces balance, the the more I focus on hardening my yang qualitys, this must be balanced with softer yin qualitys or it causes problems.
Why should I care what anyone does with there plumbing as long as I don’t have to do it, I think making it your buisness what other people do privately is weak and pathetic.
to me a T-man is self defineing, other peoples trips are non of my buisness, when I find myself getting an attitude about something I dont like that people do, I mentaly slap myself, and remind myself that this thinking has nothing to do with gettin’ what I want, maybe ask yourself “whats it got to do with me? what to I care? why am I thinking about other peoples trips… why am I wasteing energy on this and p*ssing away my power?” granted some things people do realy do nauseate me! but thats my problem isn’t it?
The 61’st hexagram of the I Ching is a good symbol for masculinity, hard as steel on the outside, like water on the inside.
zev,first this was started w/ the intent of getting alot of the reaction you wanted or atleast expected, so yes you proved part of your point but I’m sure you realise when you started this that your choice of words were in a way to get the response you wanted from the people you expected it from. now this thread went off a little and into if homosexuality is natural or not, i ask you WHO CARES? realy WHO CARES? why would it matter if it is or not? we are SUPOSED to live in a free country so if someone chooses a lifestyle or its chosen for them I realy don’t care, just be happy.oh and KRAK I think the probablem is that you think MOST gay people are “in your face” about their sexuality, how do you know its most? maybe it is but maybe its only 10% thats so open? How would anyone ever know what % of gay people are that open about their sexuality? but one more thing, ZEV and NATEDOG, get over yourselfs , fine each of you are great,you guys are better people than everyone else. I’m sure you both are good guys but you do come off as stuckup in your posts. one coment for COLIN, now i fully understand your point but can’t A=B in the long run? how do we decide whether A and B have to be equal today or equal in the long run? and if thats true can’t A oppress B and still only be equal to B in the long run (think who controls the checkbook in most homes)
I really don’t give 2 shits about what background or sexuality a person is from. That being said everybody always wonders why guys feel threatened by feminists or gay guys, neither of which threaten or scare me, but why are feminists and such so threatened by a guy wanting to be himself? Really!!! And another thing, why is it that the real hardcore feminist come off as hating guys yet they try to be just like guys?Some serious penis envy going on lol.
Most of the Gay people I know as friends are some of the nicest and most responsible people I know, and the funny part is they are the ones who tell me 99% of the gay jokes I hear.
Fact of the matter is that I have no desire to walk in a parade or support feminist groups.Does that make me homophobic or a chauvinist? Nope just means I don’t give a flying fu*k about anyones agenda except my own, which is to be myself, respectful towars others and to not apologize to the rest of the world for being a man like the rest of the whipped men have been doing lately.
And if some women out there hate me because I am a male and proud of it, then they are the ones being prejudiced not me.
Given the fact that gay men have dicks, they would also have testosterone.
Since the have testosterone they can build muscle.
This is a weight trainning internet mag…(I think) so does it reallly matter whether or not a man is gay, catholic, buddist, or anything else???
What da fuk…!!!
I’ve also noticed that there weren’t many T-ladies (did you catch the ‘ladies’ part) spewing forth homophobic crap. I wonder why.
I strip in a gay bar. I like gay people because they give me money.
I treat women with respect, I treat men with respect (hetero or homo). I give everyone a given level of respect based on the fact that they are alive. Anyone can loose my respect or gain more respect. This is based on their actions or words. I’m not particularly concerned with what other peoples belief systems are so long as their not subversive to others in general. I try my best to judge peoples worth based on their actions and not on some preconceived notion of manhood, sexuality, or righteousness. Sometimes I make poor judgments but hey no-one’s perfect. I’m not a feminist, but I do think everyone should be given a fair chance.
While sometimes I do read things on this sight that I don’t agree with, thats ok. I don’t need to agree with someone elses ideas for them to be valid ideas. I think that one of the problems with people in general is that they are all convinced that they’re right. I catch myself with this all too often. Sometimes I’m so sure of something that I believe I know of feel. Latter on I think about it and realise how foolish I’ve been.
So far as being a “T-man”, this has become the new rhetoric, and as such has lost some of it’s meaning to me. Whatever you call yourself (feminist, fascist, homo) think about it. Don’t just apply labels to yourself, they tend to be limiting. Once you have ascribed labels to yourself you may find you have to agree with certain things just to fit that branding. Sometimes I’ll hold my girlfriends purse. Does this mean I’m a pantie wearing nancy boy? Oh no, do chris shugart think I’m a sissy? Boo Hoo.
Define yourself, be conciencious, and respectfull to others until they give you a reason not too be.
Dale? Rape isn’t absolutely wrong? Are there times when it is okay to rape? If you can’t say yes, that’s because you’ve come to realize that “rape is wrong” is an absolute truth. If you cannot say that there are truth’s than everything is a matter of opinion. Murder, rape, incest, child molestation. All of these to you are not wrong?
Hetyey, I did not make my point clear in my first post. I was stating the two main tenets of feminism (men and women are equal and men oppress women), and I was trying to say that men and women being equal is impossible. For two things to be equal, they must be the same. Men and women are not the same (how many men out there have gotten pregnant?). Further, based on their definition, any one who oppresses is a man, and any one who is oppressed is a woman. This relativist (meaningless) lemma is contradicted by their idea (and this is the only thing they can ever get right) that men are the ones with dicks. A complete and total contradiction is always present with relative beliefs because relativism is it’s self a contradiction (it’s ALWAYS true that NOTHING is ever ALWAYS true). If any thing is self defining, then it is completly without meaning, I mean if there is no definite type of real man (he can be a homosexual pacifist, or a real man) then why does he have to be a man, why not a woman, or a can of soda? Liberal Arts departments of most Universities are the breeding grounds for stupidity.
I haven’t seen much if any homophobic spewing Jay T. All I’ve seen is some people (myself included) saying that we don’t believe it is a moral or health lifestyle. But most of us that share that opinion have made it clear that we still treat the homosexual with the same amount of dignity as anyone else. As far as the women not being homophobic…bulldung. Yeah, generally women are fine hanging out with gay men, but these same women (my experience in life) aren’t know to go hang out with lesbians. I’ve actually asked women about this. Because at first it did seem to me that women just seemed to feel comfortable around gays. Well, to my surprise most have said that they would be uncomfortable hanging out, going out with lesbian women. Unless of course the women happened to be gay or bi. But few of the straight women I’ve talked would. And surprisingly to me it was for the same exact reasons alot of men give. Again, this is just my personal experience. I think people are getting tolerance mixed up with acceptance.
Isn’t it fun to stir the pot. Everyone is different you may want to take on a more zen attitude. If it offends don’t read it, if it enlightens embrace it, if it confounds resolve it, but mostly live. You should read the Tao of Pooh as it may help you to see that what someone writes in a forum in no way defines the whole being. Funny thing about the causes you choose to put in this post I am guessing that you are active in a number of other causes that would not have gotten the same reaction and as such you didn’t include them. You asked a question like “Have you stopped beating your wife” Of course you are going to get an incriminating response. Do you get dizzy from the hight you look down at others?
Apeshit, when I said, “Some people tend to be more ballsy or idiotic when they can post behind a fake name on a forum. Not to say that Apeshit and Naturalman are trying to hide something” was to clearify that I WASN’T talking about your posts, but posts in general. And I knew that if I didn’t clarify, someone would have thought I was referring to what you guys said. But even though I tried to clarify that I wasn’t referring to you, it somehow became misconstrued that I was. Does that make sense? So you don’t have to go jumping down my throat for something that wasn’t meant as an attack on you in the first place. I was trying to make a point that we all have different views on things.
We need to clear some things up. It seems as though Zev's post has started a homosexual debate. And that is not what the point of his post is. The point is that we should take part in other things that might not be considered the "stereotypical T-man image." So by doing things like being a gay supporter, feminist, etc, you are expanding your horizons and beliefs. Somehow, the post has turned into an issue instead of remembering what being a T-man is all about. And no, I'm not some sort of feminist supporter. Like Chris Shugart has said, I'll talk to a feminist if I want an opinion on flannel shirts or the next Melissa Etheridge CD. LOL!
I personally love TC's Atomic Dog articles. I don't find them offensive or sexist in any way. It's what we as T-men should be and how many of us really think. And yes, you have heard me make many, many comments about women and sex. I don't deny that. I know what I've said and live by what I say. Sure, I joke about certain things and use sarcasm at times, but I think everyone knows when that happens.
I’m not trying to come off as some “sensitive, gay-loving, feminist-supporting, all-around T-man.” I was just saying that many of us have other interests and activities. Does that make sense?
IMO a big part of being a T man is being “comfortable in your own skin” phyically and mentally. Men and women are not equal and most feminists don’t want to be equal (ie.the same as men) they want equality, there is a big difference. Historically and in many countries still (eg Islamic based cultures), women are dominated and oppressed by men. One of the problems with the feminist movement (and most minority groups) is that a lot of the rhetoric comes from the outspoken hardcore element, there are many people involved who are “normal” people who want equal pay for the same job and other “equalities”. Most here are quick to jump on Jason Barran for his racist views, yet isn’t stereotyping gays and feminists another form of discrimination? My wife has worked for Womens refuge/shelter, done womens studies so I am aware how many male jerks are out there and some of the negative elements in the feminist movement. Don’t get me wrong we don’t agree on all her views and I’m not a “kaftan and sandal wearer” but you can’t ignore the evidence.I don’t hate gay people but I do not believe that their sexual orientation is right. I also remember reading somewhere that not all male homosexuals engage in anal sex, in fact the number of hetrosexual males who engage in it is very high also, there is certainly a high number of porn videos that hilight it.
Yeah and those who appeal to “faggetts” as natural are really hiding their insecurties and ignorances to. And no I have never taken a feminist political theory course either. I just never had any inteest in it.
“The reason I bring all this up is that I do feel a sense of camraderie with T-maggers because of their intellectual approach to weightlifting, so it pains me to feel so intellectually isolated from them otherwise. I’d love to find out that I’m wrong. Take care, all.” In otherwords we have to agree with your views to make you feel accepted here? Zev if you don’t feel accepted it’s of your own construct. I for one can see from your post that I would strongly disagree with you on many issues, but I don’t believe for a second that you are not welcome here. Stick around, don’t bail out becuase not everyone happens to agree with you. This is a great forum for training and nutrition. Peace.
I believe rapists should be publicly castrated in the most brutal of ways… child rapists would suffer like treatment then be put to death in some kind of blood sport. Gambling proceeds would go for the child’s counselling.
That said …your statement… “Rape is wrong” is not an ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The follwing is a definition:
- independent and unmodifiable: not depending on or qualified by anything else absolute truth
Ok… so what if the rape is statutory… the perpetrator is the same age or one month older?
That is a qualifier and voids the absolute portion… it’s splitting hairs… but absolutes don’t exist… ok… maybe I’m wrong… an absolutely gorgeous specimen just went by.
Don’t worry Zev, you’re not a “rare bird” at all, you’re just another hypocrite, like so many other self-proclaimed intellectual liberals. Yeah, you’re really open minded, except when it comes to “harmful” manly behavior that is engaged in by “ignorant,” “insecure” men. That “dismays” you. Let me help you out. I think you’re insecure about your own masculinity so, out of ignorance, you engage in harmful unmanly behavior which has been socially learned from the feminists and homosexuals you attempt to please. This dismays me, because it makes me sad to see a man effectively castrated by being forced into such a feminine model of behavior. But, because I’m tolerant, I’ll leave you be to live your life as you see fit. But, I hope, one day, you’ll get help to overcome your insecurities. Good luck.
You know I hate though. You suck one cock, you get labeled a cocksucker for life. Geez.
lol. You better catch up with her!