All Time Best MMA Fighter

Training
81

I agree that Faber shouldn’t be on the list and that I got ahead of myself. But honestly, IF he is brutally tested someday (a string of ridiculous fights and defends on every one), his domination could easily lead him there, especially with a win over Kid if it ever happens. His conditioning alone is the best of any fighter I have ever seen. He mot not have KO power, like against Pulver who we’ve seen TKO’d by fighters like Gomi and others in Pride, but he was hardly tired and all and played his own game to win in an easy unanimous decision.

Also, give me a break with the picture of John Daly. Physical shape does NOT define a sport: effective TECHNIQUE combines with physical strength (Dwight Howard) and/or endurance (Urijah Faber) and/or awareness (Jason Kidd). So, you can theoretically have them all (LeBron James), but not having one or two doesn’t make the game you play Not a sport. That’s absurd. Also, it doesn’t make people who don’t agree with you pussies. Grow up.

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Haha, the status of golf as a sport/non-sport is a lot bigger than whether I “like it or not.” And it’s not. As far as the Jordan point - a) why is the length of time someone took to get to championship status a factor? b) how are defeats (or lack thereof) not factored into this? PRetty darn important in Fedor’s case[/quote]

So whereabouts was this officially declared not a sport besides in your closed mind? a) Are you kidding? you see no difference in an athlete entering a league and getting right to the top compared to someone who it takes 7 years to make the Finals? the former is obviously an upper edge on accomplishment and domination status. b) winning percentage is factored into it and compared to the W% of other teams/athletes in the respective sport. there is no standardizing of the percentage because Tiger winning, say, 30% of the tournaments he entered (or say 100% for the 4 he wins in a row) does not match up with Michael’s Bulls winning 30% of their games in a season, because that would be horrible. Also, the c) is your accomplishments when put next to history. Michael never passed Bill Russell’s championship record, never got Oscar’s triple double average, never got Wilt’s 100 point game. Tiger is well on track to soon passing all major golf records and did things in his youth 99.9% of golfers (and in some case 100%) never came close to doing.

82

[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:
Quinnthology wrote:
uh… what?

and Hughes has a more impressive and dominant career than GSP, doesn’t matter if GSP has beat him twice. that’s not how it works, you don’t do MMA math for this situation.

How do head-to-head encounters not factor in? That’s silly.[/quote]

I agree they should count, but only in situations like tiebreakers in your decision. Believe me, I love GSP, my picture was originally supposed to be him instead of KFlo but I couldn’t get it to load. The man is a monster, and will go down as one of the best (perhaps the best), but right now I can’t see how he’s above Hughes. When you look at their entire careers, just not yet. But in the end, when his career is done (like Hughes’ essentially is) I believe he will have had a more dominant career.

83

from dictionary.com:
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

…?

84

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
Quinnthology wrote:
uh… what?

and Hughes has a more impressive and dominant career than GSP, doesn’t matter if GSP has beat him twice. that’s not how it works, you don’t do MMA math for this situation.

How do head-to-head encounters not factor in? That’s silly.

I agree they should count, but only in situations like tiebreakers in your decision. Believe me, I love GSP, my picture was originally supposed to be him instead of KFlo but I couldn’t get it to load. The man is a monster, and will go down as one of the best (perhaps the best), but right now I can’t see how he’s above Hughes. When you look at their entire careers, just not yet. But in the end, when his career is done (like Hughes’ essentially is) I believe he will have had a more dominant career. [/quote]

Fair enough.

And thanks for clearing up the KenFlo avatar. Kenny’s actually a nice guy and I’m impressed with how much he’s developed as a fighter.

85

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
So whereabouts was this officially declared not a sport besides in your closed mind? a) Are you kidding? you see no difference in an athlete entering a league and getting right to the top compared to someone who it takes 7 years to make the Finals? the former is obviously an upper edge on accomplishment and domination status. b) winning percentage is factored into it and compared to the W% of other teams/athletes in the respective sport. there is no standardizing of the percentage because Tiger winning, say, 30% of the tournaments he entered (or say 100% for the 4 he wins in a row) does not match up with Michael’s Bulls winning 30% of their games in a season, because that would be horrible. Also, the c) is your accomplishments when put next to history. Michael never passed Bill Russell’s championship record, never got Oscar’s triple double average, never got Wilt’s 100 point game. Tiger is well on track to soon passing all major golf records and did things in his youth 99.9% of golfers (and in some case 100%) never came close to doing.
[/quote]

The problem with comparing MJ to Tiger though, is that basketball is a team sport, where golf is an individual sport. You mentioned Wilt, who I personally believe was the most dominant player of all time in the NBA (not Russell, though Russell won more rings).

The rules of the game literally changed in an attempt to slow Chamberlain down. Goal tending? Instituted because of Wilt. Can’t enter the lane until a free throw hits the rim? Instituted because of Wilt. They widened the lanes to slow him down. etc… He also as you said, is the only player ever to score 100 points in a game, and the only player to ever average above 40 and 50 points in a season.

Yet, because the teams he played on weren’t as good as Russell’s, or Jordan’s later on, he doesn’t have as many rings as either of those two players do. Hence he gets somewhat overlooked when people think about the “most dominant player”.

On the other hand, comparing Fedor to Tiger (or Karelin) makes much more sense, since all of the individuals compete(d) in individual sports. And using those comparisons, Karelin would be the most dominant, followed by Fedor, and in third would be Tiger.

Karelin has one loss on his professional record, went undefeated in 13 years of competition, and didn’t give up a single point in 6 years prior to his final loss against gardner. Fedor only has one loss as well, but has been hurt and has been in trouble before. Yet of course always seems to figure out a way to win. Tiger has been beaten several times, and has even failed to make the cut in some tournaments.

Tiger is most certainly a dominant player, but he is nowhere near as dominant as Karelin or Fedor.

86

Reality check time.

Fedor is great and I don’t want to take anything away from him, but to say he’s the most dominant athlete in any sport EVER is a huge stretch. He’s not even the most dominant combat athlete ever. His record is currently 28-1 with 6 decisions.

Karelin was a great example of a much more dominant athlete. Here are some more:

Wrestlers -
Cael Sanderson
Dan Gable

Boxers-
Joe Louis 69-3 55 KOs
George Foreman 40-0 37 KOs before Ali fight
Mike Tyson (pre- Buster)37-0 33 KOs
Rocky Marciano 49-0 43 KOs

And these are just the heavyweights. All of these guys were flat-out starching people until they met the guy who had their number. Joe Louis did it for thirteen years. Nobody was more feared than Foreman in his day. Early Mike certainly looked unbeatable. The Rock NEVER met that guy as a pro.

I’m not saying that Fedor won’t someday be held in the same regard, but to do it now is a little premature.

My 2 cents.

87

In the weightlifting world: Vasiliy Alekseyev, 80 world records and an 8 year run as European and world champ.

In powerlifting: Ed Coan. He dominated the 220s. He had a 16 year run of not being beaten at any meet (only ended because of injury,) and he cracked Kaz’s 2425 for the all time greatest total at any weight class, by putting up 2463(while weighing more than 100 pounds less than Kaz.)

I agree with your list of dominant heavyweights, except for Foreman. Everyone was afraid of the guy, especially after he destroyed Frazier, but the Ali fight was always on the horizon.

People thought he would win easily, but he wouldn’t be done cleaning out the division until after the fight, so I don’t think you can consider him as one of the most dominant fighters.

88

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
After the events of the past 24 hours, Fedor should be on the top of everyone’s list. There is NO ONE else in ANY SPORT that has ever been as dominant as Fedor is in MMA. The closest I can come up with are guys like Tiger Woods and Michale Schumacher.

But Tiger hasn’t won every major since he turned pro, Schummy didn’t won every F1 race he ever qualified for.

This is crazy. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to be telling my fucking grandkids that I lived in the time of Fedor. [/quote]

Karelin.

Karelin was pretty dominant. Interesting that he finally lost to a guy who was focusing on hand fighting to avoid getting injured too badly and who managed to win. At that point, Russian wrestler Alexander Karelin had not even yielded a point over a 10-year span heading into the 2000 Summer Olympic Games in Sydney.

A good summary is here:

and

89

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

The problem with comparing MJ to Tiger though, is that basketball is a team sport, where golf is an individual sport. You mentioned Wilt, who I personally believe was the most dominant player of all time in the NBA (not Russell, though Russell won more rings).

The rules of the game literally changed in an attempt to slow Chamberlain down. Goal tending? Instituted because of Wilt. Can’t enter the lane until a free throw hits the rim? Instituted because of Wilt. They widened the lanes to slow him down. etc… He also as you said, is the only player ever to score 100 points in a game, and the only player to ever average above 40 and 50 points in a season.

Yet, because the teams he played on weren’t as good as Russell’s, or Jordan’s later on, he doesn’t have as many rings as either of those two players do. Hence he gets somewhat overlooked when people think about the “most dominant player”.

On the other hand, comparing Fedor to Tiger (or Karelin) makes much more sense, since all of the individuals compete(d) in individual sports. And using those comparisons, Karelin would be the most dominant, followed by Fedor, and in third would be Tiger.

Karelin has one loss on his professional record, went undefeated in 13 years of competition, and didn’t give up a single point in 6 years prior to his final loss against gardner. Fedor only has one loss as well, but has been hurt and has been in trouble before. Yet of course always seems to figure out a way to win. Tiger has been beaten several times, and has even failed to make the cut in some tournaments.

Tiger is most certainly a dominant player, but he is nowhere near as dominant as Karelin or Fedor.[/quote]

I never made the connection between an individual athlete and a team sport, someone else brought up Jordan as the most dominant player ever. Then I just said Bill as a quick response, and even though I do believe that I would also agree that Wilt was pure domination. 50ppg and 25rpg is absurd.

However, I still see Tiger was all-time most dominant athlete.

90

Fedor
Silva
Nog

IMO

91

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
I never made the connection between an individual athlete and a team sport, someone else brought up Jordan as the most dominant player ever. Then I just said Bill as a quick response, and even though I do believe that I would also agree that Wilt was pure domination. 50ppg and 25rpg is absurd.
[/quote]

Ok, fair enough.

How so? I’ll admit that he has been a force to be reckoned with in the PGA Tour. But he has been beaten more times than he has won (he has played in 56 PGA Tournaments and only won 14). Yes, he’s still one of the most successful golfers of all time, I’ll definitely give him that. But most dominant all time athlete? Absolutely disagree.

How can you say that in contrast to guys like Karelin (who’s record I already noted), Cael Sanderson (went undefeated for his entire collegiate career 159-0 becoming the first wrestler to ever do that, won 4 consecutive national titles also the first to ever do that, won the gold medal at the 2004 Olympic games), Dan Gable (182-1 throughout his college career, after college he won the Pan American, Tbilisi and World Games, won a Gold medal at the 1972 Olympics and didn’t allow a single point to be scored on him throughout the entire games), or even Fedor (29-1-1 career in MMA, World Combat Sambo champion which he won because the other finalist declined to fight him)?

Once again, Tiger is good, but most dominant all time athlete he is not.

92

There is a difference between a sport and a game. Golf is a game, as is bowling and billiards. Basketball is a sport, as is football and baseball. In golf, no one is trying to stop you from taking your shot. As a matter of fact, they make people BE QUIET when the golfer is taking his shot.

There is no running, jumping, cutting or energy exerted until the one shot, and even then it’s debateable. They take a little car to get to the next hole and have someone else carry their bags so they don’t tire themselves out.

When real pro athletes sign their contracts, alot of times the team won’t allow them to play other sports for fear of injury, but they’re all allowed to play golf. Once again golf is not a sport. Tiger Woods is the best golfer ever, and what he does on a golf course is truly amazing. Calling him the best[ most dominant,etc…] athlete is absolutely ridiculous.

93

If golf is a sport, than bowling, darts, ping pong, and horseshoes are sports as well. If your definition of sport encompasses all of the above than fine, but I’m going to make sure my son plays some real sports that challenge him physically.

94

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
If golf is a sport, than bowling, darts, ping pong, and horseshoes are sports as well. If your definition of sport encompasses all of the above than fine, but I’m going to make sure my son plays some real sports that challenge him physically.[/quote]

Amen. This is the point I was really trying to make.

95

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
If golf is a sport, than bowling, darts, ping pong, and horseshoes are sports as well. If your definition of sport encompasses all of the above than fine, but I’m going to make sure my son plays some real sports that challenge him physically.[/quote]

You left out tiddly winks in which I’m undefeated in like a thousand contests…I’m the all time greatest sportsman

96

This went from being a somewhat sophisticated argument to a bunch of big tough know-it-alls who are redefining the world the way they want it to be. You guys can continue without me. (sorry Sentoguy you’re the only person giving me respect but i just lost all energy to reply)

97

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
This went from being a somewhat sophisticated argument to a bunch of big tough know-it-alls who are redefining the world the way they want it to be. [/quote]

Oh, poor cry baby.

Umm, you just did.

98

[quote]drewh wrote:
Who cares if Shamrock was well rounded its about the best fighters, Shamrock in my opinion does not fit this bill he’s become pathetic and i don’t give a shit that he’s old so was Randy. [/quote]

I was talking about Frank Shamrock not Ken. Frank definitely deserves to be on the list.

Also, yeah, Ken Shamrock gets beaten up a lots these days. In terms of the top ten greatest MMA fighters I wouldn’t put him on the list. That said he might merit discussion.

The Lions Den was really the first fight team. That was a very important development.

Also, when Ken Shamrock went to the WWE in '96 he was one of the best fighters in the world. He was above the curve when it came to submissions. When he returned from the WWE he was behind the curve. He never really caught up again. The speed of evolution in MMA has been frightening. It has slowed somewhat now, but at one time things were moving so fast that four years was like an decade or more in any other sport.

You can only judge the guys by the standards of their time. It easy to look at Ken Shamrock nowadays and call him pathetic. That discounts what he once was.

Ken Shamrock is one of the most important figures in the history of MMA. And at one point, many years ago, he really was one of the top guys in the world.

Randy Couture is the exception not the rule. I think Dave Meltzer said something that summed up Couture and Shamrock, “One guy lived one way. One guy lived another.”

Shamrock broke his neck in high school. He was a pro-wrestler before MMA and again during his hiatus. He’s had forty plus fights and he’s forty plus years old. Fighter’s go on too long. Shamrock certainly has.

I watched his last fight live. It was depressing.

He looks ten years old than he is. He’s a submission specialist who knees are too fucked up to shoot, his reflexes are shot and his chin is gone. He should retire. That doesn’t take away from the fact that along time ago, in a different era, he was one of the top guys in the world. He also helped shape the sport more than only but a handful of others.

99

I’d have to go

  1. Fedor
  2. Anderson
  3. Nog(Avenged every loss but fedor)
  4. BJ Penn

After that I’d have to know more specifically what you meant. Are we looking at who would beat who? Who had a more impressive career?

100

[quote]drewh wrote:
“Sorry, golf is a game, not a sport. Just like ping pong, pool, darts, bowling, poker, etc. Oh yes…whether you like it or not.”
The only difference game has from sport is that sport requires physical prowess judging from the fact you have to have physical prowess to effectively golf it is a sport.
sometimes I just can’t stand some people’s children who are raised to be idiots.[/quote]

It must be pretty tough to stand yourself then. SKILLS are different from sports. Darts requires skill and technique. It can also be played (and usually is) in a bar, with a beer in your hand without breaking a sweat. The fact that a quadriplegic could not excel at golf doesnt make it a sport.