[quote]diefighting wrote:
Recently discussed with a couple of friends about the evolution of MMA and MMA Fighter, and as usual we ended disusing about who’s the best fighter, what would happen if this guy was fighting now, etc etc. We ended with a list of what we called the greatest of all time. Here is the list:
Anderson Silva
Fedor
Randy Couture
Bas Rutten
GSP
Big Nog
BJ Penn
Takanori Gomi
Frank Shammrock
10.Matt Hughes
What do you think?
[/quote]
Tough one.
1 Fedor - Dominant a lot of good HWs I would like to see him against but can’t see him losing to any of them
2 Bas - Could compete today with anyone.
3 BJ - if he keeps his head on straight may even be 1 or 2.
4 Anderson Silva - Henderson is his only impressive win but he’s hot.
5 Randy - in his last two fights anyway. I think he should take one more fight before fedor.
6 GSP - Prototype for MMA fighter but needs to get his head on straight.
7 Chuck - Can’t take him down and few can strike with him.
8 Frank - Well rounded. Like GSP Prototype of an MMA fighter.
9 Royce - Icon but wouldn’t compete in todays game.
10 Dan Henderson - Can hang with anyone. I think his best is yet to come.
How about this. Who would you like to see any of the people on the original post fight?
Anderson Silva - Cung Le, Frank, a ton of people at 205 would be a challenge for him. Chuck, Silva, Rampage, Forest.
Fedor - Randy, Josh Barrnet
Randy Couture - Fedor or Nog
Bas Rutten - Fedor
GSP - BJ or Frank Shamrock at catch weight.
Big Nog - Randy. Mir will be interesting
BJ Penn - GSP, sherk again as long as he doesn’t try and stand up with him.
Takanori Gomi - anyone. Don’t think he belongs here.
Frank Shammrock - GSP at catch weight. Henderson
10.Matt Hughes - Serra
[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
I think the performance over the weekend cemented Fedor’s spot atop any and all lists where you’re talking about best-ever fighters.
Fedor
Anderson Silva
Big Nog
Liddell
Penn
Wand
GSP
Couture
Matt Hughes
Dan Henderson
GSP? this isn’t a “right now” list it’s of all time. The guy just got the title again, how is he above Matt Hughes? The man is 43-7 and the most dominant UFC champ of all time and he sits around 9 or 10 on everyone’s list. Can’t believe it.
And for the record, I believe GSP will eventually be in the top 5 because he is currently the third best fighter IMO.[/quote]
Last I checked, GSP beat Hughes twice. His game is constantly evolving and he’s already beaten a lot of the best WW fighters in the world.
Only reason I don’t have him higher is b/c he’s so young, and he’s behind Penn (who he beat) is b/c of Penn’s title wins in different weight classes.
It’s tough to put sakuraba on a top ten list because we’ve all seen him lose so much. But, you’re right the only time I can think of him losing to a guy his size would be that knee to the face at pride 25 or the decision loss against a roided royce.
He’s pulled off some big wins against those a good 20lbs over him like Randleman and Rampage, and I loved his slow chopping away at Royce and making the gracie’s throw in the towel. Also it’s tough because who do you compare him to? He walks around 180s or so, so do you compare him to Anderson? He could probably cut down to welter, so do you compare him to Hughes and GSP?
As far as Rickson, unless the list is for dodging fights he doesn’t belong on it.
Fedor is on his own level. I can’t see how you can put anyone over him. He’s taken out all the talent available…which was substantial. I mean what’s left? Do you want to see him against a bear? Cut a few pounds and clean out the LHWs as well? Doesn’t seem like it would be fair to them.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
How about this. Who would you like to see any of the people on the original post fight?
[/quote]
That’s a good question.
Anderson Silva - Lindland (the only top ranked middleweight who he hasn’t fought who I think has a chance of beating him), Frank (in his prime). I honestly think that by watching Anderson at 205, he can take that belt if he wants it. I personally think he’d destroy any LHW on the feet, and I just don’t see any LHW’s who are going to be able to both take the fight to the ground and beat him there.
Fedor - a bear, aliens
Randy Couture - Barnett, Fedor, Nog
Bas Rutten - Rickson
GSP - BJ or Anderson Silva at catch weight.
Big Nog - Randy, Lesnar, Jeff Monson
BJ Penn - GSP, Yamamoto, maybe even Anderson Silva
Takanori Gomi - BJ again, Sherk, Faber
Frank Shammrock - Lindland, Franklin, I honestly don’t think he would stand a chance against Anderson at this point in his career.
10.Matt Hughes - Serra, Koscheck
[/quote]
Also, about Tiger being more dominant than Fedor, this is a joke right? The only loss on Fedor’s record was due to stoppage for a cut. In my book, that’s not really being beat. As good as Tiger is, he’s been beaten a number of times before, in fact he hasn’t even made the cut in some of the tournaments he’s played in. I just don’t see how you could say that Tiger is more dominant.
and Hughes has a more impressive and dominant career than GSP, doesn’t matter if GSP has beat him twice. that’s not how it works, you don’t do MMA math for this situation.
Also, I think that when talking about the greatest fighters of all time then absolutely Frank Shamrock has to be on the list.
He was really, in some respects, the first triple threat in terms of a guy who could strike, had submissions and could wrestle (granted his wrestling was his weak point).
His alliance with Maurice Smith could be argued to be one of the most important relationships in MMA in terms of development. Granted, you the Lions Den which was a fight team but when Shamrock left and hooked up with Smith they really set the mould for true cross training.
Plus, his run from October '97 through the Ortiz fight in September '99 was incredible. As someone who watched it at the time it’s hard to get across now how much Frank Shamrock was the man at that stage.
He also had wins over Funaki, Rutten
and Suzuki in Pancrase and was a provisional King of Pancrase.
[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
I said that perhaps a little too definitively, but honestly I don’t see how Griffin could keep up now. I’m very unimpressed by his last two showing against Aurelio and Tibau, and Guida gave him such a run for his money. Faber looked so stacked in the last fight, just pure muscle, and his technique was right on. Either way, love to see it go down.
[/quote]
Ae you kidding? I thought he looked pheonmenal against Aurelio. He would crush Faber. Hell, Faber while he won clearly, was never dominating a Pulver that was dropping down to his natural weight class. Pulver did and would get his salad tossed if he tried to compete at the top of the UFC lightweight title.
As good as Faber is, and he is very good, it’s way too early to rank him anywhere on a list of the greatest MMA fighters of all time.
Realistically, he’s not even the unquestionable man at 145 lbs yet. The dream bout at 145 lbs is Faber Vs Kid Yamamoto. If that fight was to happen, and I doubt it ever will, then it could go either way.
Who cares if Shamrock was well rounded its about the best fighters, Shamrock in my opinion does not fit this bill he’s become pathetic and i don’t give a shit that he’s old so was Randy.
[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
Well first of all, golf is a sport whether you like it or not.
Secondly, Michael isn’t even the most dominant basketball player of all time, Bill Russell is. Michael started winning too late, it wasn’t until his 7th season that he made the finals. How do you compare this to Tiger who wins the Masters in his second year? Tiger is light years away from all his opponents, and I see Michael, though still dominant, as closer to his.
Besides, no one said Fedor is to MMA what Tiger is to golf, he said Fedor is more dominant than Tiger and I said it was the opposite.[/quote]
Haha, the status of golf as a sport/non-sport is a lot bigger than whether I “like it or not.” And it’s not. As far as the Jordan point - a) why is the length of time someone took to get to championship status a factor? b) how are defeats (or lack thereof) not factored into this? PRetty darn important in Fedor’s case
and Hughes has a more impressive and dominant career than GSP, doesn’t matter if GSP has beat him twice. that’s not how it works, you don’t do MMA math for this situation. [/quote]
How do head-to-head encounters not factor in? That’s silly.
“Sorry, golf is a game, not a sport. Just like ping pong, pool, darts, bowling, poker, etc. Oh yes…whether you like it or not.”
The only difference game has from sport is that sport requires physical prowess judging from the fact you have to have physical prowess to effectively golf it is a sport.
sometimes I just can’t stand some people’s children who are raised to be idiots.
If you want to think it’s a sport, go ahead. Depends on your definition.
I just personally HATE any kind of competition where you don’t have to sweat. Everybody that I’ve ever known to play golf, bowl, billards, or anything of that nature cannot jog a fucking mile. Tiger Woods may be the only exception. Can you think of more? Maybe you can…but on average…they’re all pussies. JUST LIKE YOU!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If this is all time I think the fighter’s entire career up to know should be taken into account.
Fedor: Pride’s HW division when he fought was deep and talented. I think Pride’s HW division when he fought was better that the UFC’S MW division now.
Nog, tremendous career.
Liddell/Wanderlei Silva, long careers with periods of dominance against top level competition
Anderson Silva. Right now dominant. Upset a couple times earlier in his career.
Gomi. American fans don’t want to give him credit. Still taking his career into historical context arguably the most accomplished at LW. Yes BJ probably might beat him again. But BJ had to beat Gomi in the first place to be considered the top LW in the world at the time.
Matt Hughes/GSP
Switching around 4 through 6 is fine with me. Still I think Gomi is in there.
