[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Should just point out here, everyone is talking like Ali was a big boy. He wasn’t.
Ignoring that he is 6’4, he wasn’t ever a big heavyweight, he was average sized at 205lbs and only ever walked around 210-215 later into his career when he got pudgy.
Comparing hand speed, Jones in the Ruiz fight, weighing in 88kg/193lbs (I have to wonder if how much he cut, because he looked HUGE for 88kg/193lbs), Jones was still faster than any heavyweight I’ve seen by a long shot (although I guess we’ve established now that size doesn’t really impact on handspeed. Fast at middle gonna be fast at heavy). Ali was known for his speed too, but a lot of that comes from being an excellent counter puncher with a good work rate. In a comparison of sheer hand speed and ability to deliver that speed with extreme accuracy and power, I’d say Jones takes the cake there.
Tactically Ali has the reach and height advantage, and has fought his whole career by keeping people on the outside and moving a lot, which means Jones has to snipe his way in with fast power shots or unorthodox/awkard setups.
I’m kind of on the fence now, but personally I just feel that Ali being “the greatest of all time” is a product of the hype machine. One of the greats? Yes of course. Greatest? So arguable.
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It’s not part of a hype machine, Ali called his victories and actually won. He also beat practically all the great fighters of his time and only looked bad well out of his prime and seeming to have the early stages of Parkinson’s. He’s definitely in the top 2, Louis might be number one depending on who you talk to. Even GOAT P4P he’s top 2 only behind Robinson. The guy beat Foreman just with strategy alone, he’s definitely a special fighter.
Personally, Jones wouldn’t stand a chance. Ali was just too big, fast, smart, and tough for him.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I agree with Irish. I think at HW Ali would win and no way would Ali make middleweight.
I think a more interesting match-up would be a prime Jones Jr. vs a prime Sugar Ray Robinson, since both fought at Middleweight (both held the title) and both are considered to be among the greatest P4P fighters of all time.[/quote]
I watched some old fight footage of Robinson the other day and just could not believe his speed and agility and he had power as well. He was incredible. Most likely the best p4p boxer who ever lived.
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The footage of him at his best, Welterweight, is limited but in his prime it’s pretty easy to see why he’s P4P #1. Not to mention that all of his losses are either when he was pretty well out of his prime or significantly outweighed, Robinson was a natural Welterweight who fought the majority of his career at Middleweight simply because he’d completely dominate 147 and it’d have been pointless for him financially. He also by my count regularly threw about 30 jabs and 30 power punches most rounds with a phenomenal connect percentange, probably better than Mayweather’s while throwing double the punches.
Personally I think the stamina of a prime RJJ wouldn’t be enough for Robinson, Robinson would outwork him and have even more left in the tank fighting a 12 round fight rather than a 15 round fight.