Both in their primes, at Middleweight. Who wins?
Roy
Marvin
Fuck yeah, cool topic Irish.
I would say Jones, because he was a genetic freak for boxing, insane speed, reaction time and even power, BUT, as we’ve seen when Roy is matched up with a fighter of equal skill (Bernard) it becomes almost a stalemate.
If Hagler and Jones fought, in their primes, as middleweights, I’d say Jones wins by UD, narrowly.
Not to sound like a douche, but what made Roy so unstoppable in his prime?
Was he simply too fast for opponents?
I haven’t finished watching the video yet.
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Not to sound like a douche, but what made Roy so unstoppable in his prime?
Was he simply too fast for opponents?
I haven’t finished watching the video yet.[/quote]
Roy had physical attributes that other fighters simply don’t have. Technically he isn’t the most sound boxer ever, but he had superior hand eye coordination, timing, and nearly unrivaled hand speed.
I’m talking like, there might be one or two guys in the history of boxing that were as fast as him.
On top of that, he was powerful- as you can see in that highlight reel, he could knock fighters out with one punch, and it might be his right hand, maybe his left hook, whatever. It’s rare to see guys who can KO you with either hand at any time.
He was also very unorthodox because of his extreme physical talents, making him very hard to deal with for fighters accustomed to more straightforward boxers.
That’s what makes it such an intriguing matchup… because Hagler was just so relentless and tough, but Jones was so fast and strong… it’d be fight for the ages.
I saw a similar question on East Side Boxing after I made this thread, and that one came out damn near even… which never happens there.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Not to sound like a douche, but what made Roy so unstoppable in his prime?
Was he simply too fast for opponents?
I haven’t finished watching the video yet.[/quote]
Roy had physical attributes that other fighters simply don’t have. Technically he isn’t the most sound boxer ever, but he had superior hand eye coordination, timing, and nearly unrivaled hand speed.
I’m talking like, there might be one or two guys in the history of boxing that were as fast as him.
On top of that, he was powerful- as you can see in that highlight reel, he could knock fighters out with one punch, and it might be his right hand, maybe his left hook, whatever. It’s rare to see guys who can KO you with either hand at any time.
He was also very unorthodox because of his extreme physical talents, making him very hard to deal with for fighters accustomed to more straightforward boxers.
That’s what makes it such an intriguing matchup… because Hagler was just so relentless and tough, but Jones was so fast and strong… it’d be fight for the ages.
I saw a similar question on East Side Boxing after I made this thread, and that one came out damn near even… which never happens there. [/quote]
So he could have been the greatest middle weight of all time
?
Man, as awesome as Hagler was an in his prime Jones would’ve put him on his ass. Jones is one of the all-time physical freak of natures in boxing. His speed, strength, power and conditioning were all at the top of the food chain. That’s why he’s losing now. Age caught up with him and now he’s just not fast enough for him to get away with the shit he used to. But, if we’re going on highlight reel soundtrack then Hagler wins hands down.
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
So he could have been the greatest middle weight of all time
?[/quote]
Roy honestly is one of the greatest pound for pound fighters of all time, considering his freakish talent and fighting from middlweight to heavyweight and winning titles.
However, Hagler could also be counted in those ranks. That’s why its an intriguing matchup
I love Marvin Hagler for so many different reasons, but Roy Jones is the most physically gifted fighter of all time.
I’ll say that again: Roy Jones is the most physically gifted fighter of all time.
That includes Ali, Robinson, and any other boxer you care to name. Did the other greats achieve a higher order or greatness than Jones? Yes; they had better competition and remained dominant longer, and also had socio-culttural tides carrying them that no longer applied in Jones’ era.
Hagler is one of the great middleweights, but on his best night could not’ve kept up – probably would’ve looked like the Jones-Toney fight.
Bump. I wish more people could contribute to this thread.
Me too dude. Combat’s been quiet lately though
[quote]C-Bear wrote:
I love Marvin Hagler for so many different reasons, but Roy Jones is the most physically gifted fighter of all time.
I’ll say that again: Roy Jones is the most physically gifted fighter of all time.
That includes Ali, Robinson, and any other boxer you care to name. Did the other greats achieve a higher order or greatness than Jones? Yes; they had better competition and remained dominant longer, and also had socio-culttural tides carrying them that no longer applied in Jones’ era.
Hagler is one of the great middleweights, but on his best night could not’ve kept up – probably would’ve looked like the Jones-Toney fight.[/quote]
Roy is the most physically gifted fighter of all time, but look at his first fight with Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins isn’t a physically gifted fighter, but he is a smart fighter and he is very skilled. Both Jones - Hopkins fights were practically stalemates, with Jones winning by a cunt hair.
In that regard, that’s how I imagine Jones - Hagler would play out.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Roy is the most physically gifted fighter of all time, but look at his first fight with Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins isn’t a physically gifted fighter, but he is a smart fighter and he is very skilled. Both Jones - Hopkins fights were practically stalemates, with Jones winning by a cunt hair.
[/quote]
Dude- RJJ easily beat Hopkins in the first one. It wasn’t even close.
Wasn’t Sugar Ray Leonard just like Jones Jr. except without the punching power. Hagler won that match up, but the judges stole it from him.
I think Hagler at his peak could win.
Like you said, Jones was never tested
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Roy is the most physically gifted fighter of all time, but look at his first fight with Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins isn’t a physically gifted fighter, but he is a smart fighter and he is very skilled. Both Jones - Hopkins fights were practically stalemates, with Jones winning by a cunt hair.
[/quote]
Dude- RJJ easily beat Hopkins in the first one. It wasn’t even close.[/quote]
Seriously? I though the last 4 rounds were especially close. At any rate, Roy didn’t embarrass him like he had done to every other fighter up to that point.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:Roy is the most physically gifted fighter of all time, but look at his first fight with Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins isn’t a physically gifted fighter, but he is a smart fighter and he is very skilled. Both Jones - Hopkins fights were practically stalemates, with Jones winning by a cunt hair.
In that regard, that’s how I imagine Jones - Hagler would play out.
[/quote]I’d argue that Hopkins is a hugely physically gifted fighter, just not as fluid as Roy – but who is? Hopkins has (or had) great eye-hand coordination, footwork and timing.
I don’t count the second Jones-Hopkins fight as indicative of anything other than what both fighters looked like against each other about 10 to 15 years too late (Hopkins actually won the second one, by the way). And how is three scores of 116-112 for Jones in the first fight practically a stalemate? I don’t think that fight was close, just boring.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Roy is the most physically gifted fighter of all time, but look at his first fight with Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins isn’t a physically gifted fighter, but he is a smart fighter and he is very skilled. Both Jones - Hopkins fights were practically stalemates, with Jones winning by a cunt hair.
[/quote]
Dude- RJJ easily beat Hopkins in the first one. It wasn’t even close.[/quote]
Seriously? I though the last 4 rounds were especially close. At any rate, Roy didn’t embarrass him like he had done to every other fighter up to that point.[/quote]
Full fight-
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Wasn’t Sugar Ray Leonard just like Jones Jr. except without the punching power. Hagler won that match up, but the judges stole it from him.
I think Hagler at his peak could win.
Like you said, Jones was never tested[/quote]Jones was certainly tested – past his prime when his skills faded to the point that other world-class fighters could catch up to him a little. Jones wasn’t tested in his prime not because of the lack of quality fighters, but because he was so far above everyone else.
You get your critics who think Halger won the fight with Leonard, and ones who think it went the other way. I don’t know anyone who thinks it was unilaterally one or the other’s fight. I’ve watched that fight half a dozen times and keep seeing it differently. What I don’t think anyone can dispute is that Hagler probably stole the fight from himself by choosing to fight right-handed for the first four rounds to throw Leonard off, before switching to lefty, where Hagler was most effective.
The ploy failed, Hagler lost the first four rounds, and spent the rest of the fight playing catch-up.
Anyway, if you look at the bulk of Hagler’s exceptional career, he had to work a little harder to beat the kind of competition that Jones mowed over, and that says something.
I think it would certainly be a battle, but all things being equal, it should go to Jones.
The wild card? Was Jones’ chin always suspect, and we never knew because he was so fast he just never got hit until he started to slow down, or did his whiskers fade with his skills?
Who knows…
I’ve got to think that Roy pulls this shit out. He’s as fast as SRL, but more powerful, and such a freak of nature that even with Hagler’s awesome skill, Roy would pull out a SD.
It would be the narrowest of fights though.
I’ve watched both fighters since their primes and I’m taking RJJ, and not just because he’s my favorite fighter. He was a freak of nature, he had ability that can’t be taught.
I believe it was Emanuel Steward who said, RJJ is the only fighter I know who can consistently throw lead left hooks and get away with it.
And he also said that a fighter who gets away with genetic gifts will be in trouble when they get older if they aren’t technically sound. Hmmn, does having his lead left hand down by his waist and getting KO’d ring a bell.
Marvin Hagler.
I think, at super-middle, Hagler takes just about anyone. He was the ultimate “complete” boxer. There was nothing he wasn’t good at. He was even a switch hitter for christsakes.
Those saying he’ll get knocked out are smokin’ the crack. Hagler had an outrageous chin. Probably the best ever for his weight. You know all those stories where some famous boxer goes for an x-ray and the docs are like “holy f*** his skull is thick”. Well there’s one guy for whom that’s really true. Marvin Hagler. This a man who walked through Hearns’ right hands to knock him out.
I think Hagler applies relentless pressure and wins by KO late in the fight.
Two interesting points:
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The Ref: One who breaks quickly versus one who lets Hagler work inside… and maybe apply some of his “rougher” tactics.
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Could Roy get inside Hagler’s head in the same way SRL did? Might we see Hagler throw away rounds trying to “outbox” RJJ?