[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
The difference in hand and foot speed between Jones and Ali would be monumental. Jones is p4p the fastest dude ever, and he might be the fastest disregarding weight, too. With that, Ali is just too damn big and too damn skilled. Like Irish said, Jones had some absolutely awful habits that he could get away with 'cause he was so much faster/stronger/better than everyone. His speed would give Ali trouble, but like Ali usually did he’d find a way to beat him.[/quote]
Does anyone else hate comparing fighters from different eras. It’s really a lot of guess work and opinions, especially in a skill sport like boxing.
Your list of people who could have beat a prime Ali mirrors mine, and for the same reasons.
To all,
Jones would pay for his unorthodox style against someone bigger and with similar reflexes / reaction speed. He would not be the amazing fighter that could get away with the things that made him great against Ali. I see the same thing playing out in Ali vs. Louis, except Louis wins because with equal reflexes and power there is a reason the textbook exists. Louis would make Ali pay for keeping his hands low.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
The difference in hand and foot speed between Jones and Ali would be monumental. Jones is p4p the fastest dude ever, and he might be the fastest disregarding weight, too. With that, Ali is just too damn big and too damn skilled. Like Irish said, Jones had some absolutely awful habits that he could get away with 'cause he was so much faster/stronger/better than everyone. His speed would give Ali trouble, but like Ali usually did he’d find a way to beat him.[/quote]
Does anyone else hate comparing fighters from different eras. It’s really a lot of guess work and opinions, especially in a skill sport like boxing.[/quote]
Of course its guesswork and opinions. That’s what makes it fun.
Your list of people who could have beat a prime Ali mirrors mine, and for the same reasons.
To all,
Jones would pay for his unorthodox style against someone bigger and with similar reflexes / reaction speed. He would not be the amazing fighter that could get away with the things that made him great against Ali. I see the same thing playing out in Ali vs. Louis, except Louis wins because with equal reflexes and power there is a reason the textbook exists. Louis would make Ali pay for keeping his hands low.[/quote]
Their reflexes and speed are not similar. Ali was fast for bruisers like Liston, Foreman and Frazier. Jones is fast for Mario Andretti. Huge difference. With that, Ali is just too big. He’s a natural 220-something. Jones is a natural 170-something. There’s a reason there’s weight classes. As jacked as Jones was against Ruiz he’d be small against a prime Ali. I’ll use the quote again: “You don’t run a volkswagon into a Mac Truck”.
They both had great reflexes, footwork, and handspeed. I don’t think Jones leads in any of those catagories by as much as you do. I think a HW Jones also takes a hit in the speed with which he could move around the ring, of course that hit just puts him at amazing instead of stellar. That said I do not disagree at all with your conclusions.
They both had great reflexes, footwork, and handspeed. I don’t think Jones leads in any of those catagories by as much as you do. I think a HW Jones also takes a hit in the speed with which he could move around the ring, of course that hit just puts him at amazing instead of stellar. That said I do not disagree at all with your conclusions.
[/quote]
We’ll agree to disagree on the comparison of speed, 'cause Jones was on a completely different level from just about everyone, no matter what he weighed. I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.[/quote]
You are spot on with that. I was watching some film of James J. Corbett battling Bob Fitzsimmons for the title (I think it was 1897) and Corbett’s footwork was amazing he absolutely could have competed with today’s fighters. In many ways with hands down and moving in and out he looked a little like Ali.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.[/quote]
You are spot on with that. I was watching some film of James J. Corbett battling Bob Fitzsimmons for the title (I think it was 1897) and Corbett’s footwork was amazing he absolutely could have competed with today’s fighters. In many ways with hands down and moving in and out he looked a little like Ali. [/quote]
Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly weighed in at less than 165 for that fight. He won the heavyweight belt as a middleweight. Maybe the hardest pound for pound puncher in boxing history?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.[/quote]
You are spot on with that. I was watching some film of James J. Corbett battling Bob Fitzsimmons for the title (I think it was 1897) and Corbett’s footwork was amazing he absolutely could have competed with today’s fighters. In many ways with hands down and moving in and out he looked a little like Ali. [/quote]
Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly weighed in at less than 165 for that fight. He won the heavyweight belt as a middleweight. Maybe the hardest pound for pound puncher in boxing history? [/quote]
Dempsey broke a man’s ankle by punching him in the face. The dude’s foot was planted and the force spun him around and snapped his ankle. I have no idea if that qualifies him for p4p puncher of all-time status but that is one of the most badass things in the history of the universe.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.[/quote]
You are spot on with that. I was watching some film of James J. Corbett battling Bob Fitzsimmons for the title (I think it was 1897) and Corbett’s footwork was amazing he absolutely could have competed with today’s fighters. In many ways with hands down and moving in and out he looked a little like Ali. [/quote]
Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly weighed in at less than 165 for that fight. He won the heavyweight belt as a middleweight. Maybe the hardest pound for pound puncher in boxing history? [/quote]
Dempsey broke a man’s ankle by punching him in the face. The dude’s foot was planted and the force spun him around and snapped his ankle. I have no idea if that qualifies him for p4p puncher of all-time status but that is one of the most badass things in the history of the universe.[/quote]
Don’t get me going on who the hardest puncher in boxing was. My money is on Rocky Marciano. He was just over 5’ 10" and weighed in at just under 190lbs. The only man to retire undefeated as hw champ. 49 fights and 43 by ko!
Jack Dempsey was interviewed in the 1953 fall edition of Fight magazine and said this about Marciano:
“I’ve scored my share of knockouts along the way, but more often than not my opponents got up after being knocked down and had to be knocked down repeatedly. The same is true of Joe Louis. But Marciano needs only one solid smash and it’s all over. That’s why I say Rocky Marciano is the hardest-hitting heavyweight champion I have seen.”
Okay, sorry for taking this thread off course. Maybe someone should start a new thread.
Jack Dempsey is far and away my favorite fighter of all time because of the way he came up and the brutality of his fighting style.
That being said, Marciano did hit harder.
“Marciano’s knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.”
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Jack Dempsey is far and away my favorite fighter of all time because of the way he came up and the brutality of his fighting style.
That being said, Marciano did hit harder.
“Marciano’s knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.”
Boxing Illustrated December 1963[/quote]
Wow, what insane power. I agree that Dempsey was a better fighter. In fact, of all the HW champions I would probably rate Dempsey in the top 3 with Ali and Joe Louis. Was it Ring magazine that rated him #1?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.[/quote]
You are spot on with that. I was watching some film of James J. Corbett battling Bob Fitzsimmons for the title (I think it was 1897) and Corbett’s footwork was amazing he absolutely could have competed with today’s fighters. In many ways with hands down and moving in and out he looked a little like Ali. [/quote]
Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly weighed in at less than 165 for that fight. He won the heavyweight belt as a middleweight. Maybe the hardest pound for pound puncher in boxing history? [/quote]
Dempsey broke a man’s ankle by punching him in the face. The dude’s foot was planted and the force spun him around and snapped his ankle. I have no idea if that qualifies him for p4p puncher of all-time status but that is one of the most badass things in the history of the universe.[/quote]
One of my friends did this. I think it’s more a matter of pure chance than raw punching power. He’s a lightweight.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Jack Dempsey is far and away my favorite fighter of all time because of the way he came up and the brutality of his fighting style.
That being said, Marciano did hit harder.
“Marciano’s knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.”
Boxing Illustrated December 1963
Oliver Mccall would fuck dempsey up…he had the best chin in the history of boxing, dempseys punches wouldn’t even make him flinch, he was taking lewis’ punches like they were nothing even with his hands down. Imagine what a focused Mccall would do to a skinny bitch like dempsey.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I do ike these arguements though. Boxing is the one sport where I think the participants of yesteryear would be competitive today.[/quote]
You are spot on with that. I was watching some film of James J. Corbett battling Bob Fitzsimmons for the title (I think it was 1897) and Corbett’s footwork was amazing he absolutely could have competed with today’s fighters. In many ways with hands down and moving in and out he looked a little like Ali. [/quote]
Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly weighed in at less than 165 for that fight. He won the heavyweight belt as a middleweight. Maybe the hardest pound for pound puncher in boxing history? [/quote]
Dempsey broke a man’s ankle by punching him in the face. The dude’s foot was planted and the force spun him around and snapped his ankle. I have no idea if that qualifies him for p4p puncher of all-time status but that is one of the most badass things in the history of the universe.[/quote]
One of my friends did this. I think it’s more a matter of pure chance than raw punching power. He’s a lightweight. [/quote]
For sure. I’m sure it had more to do with how the guys foot was planted than Dempsey’s power, but it doesn’t take away from how badass it is. Also, I gotta think a prime Tyson - before he lost his way [and D’amato] - is pretty high up there on the p4p punching power list. Some of his early KO’s were nuts.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
One of Tyson’s most underrated facets is his speed. It still bewilders me to this day how a lot of people think Tyson was merely a brawling slugger.
EDIT:
Also, 180lbs lean at 12 years old what the fuckkkkkkk. Best genetics ever or what[/quote]
My pop used to say that Tyson was the purest mesomorph of all time. Was watching an interview with Teddy Atlas a couple of years ago where Atlas said the first time he saw Tyson [who was in the 8th grade at the time], he was sparring an ex pro heavyweight, and while he wasn’t winning he wasn’t exactly losing either. Said he walked up to Tyson [who was a bit over 2-hundo… in the 8th grade] and asked him a whole bunch of questions that led to Tyson giving his age. Said he knew he had a future champ on his hands right then and there. Seriously, who the fuck is 200lbs of muscle in the 8th grade? That’s crazy.