Advice to Get Bigger Needed

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
I agree, but for insurance purposes he should shut his mouth i reckon (to be very very blunt). My qualification covered sports and general nutrition… obviously it is basic stuff, but that piece of paper stands up in a court when that client gets fat and tries to sue… lmao!

The client not reaching his goals is the least that could happen, what if he decides to sue because he has given nutritional advice to achieve a goal and because the trainer isnt qualified, that goal wasnt achieved and the client PAID MONEY OR A SERVICE THAT THE TRAINER WASNT CAPABLE OF GIVNG!.. that shit happens!

Joe[/quote]

Great point…Stray from your scope of qualifications and you can be held liable. Definitely something to think about.

22

I would like to clear up the matter that I am not and have no intention of advertising myself as a nutritionist, I am a Personal Trainer on the REPs register nothing more, the client in question asked me what I recommend to help and I have told him to up protein to what I understand to be the common knowledge around lifters. He asked about supplements and i recommended Creatine Capsules, I am not advising, just recommending when asked.

23

How old is he? Some people have a hard time holding on to those calories. Give it some time, and in the meanwhile maybe get a qualitifed nutritionist to help him out.

24

isnt it generally one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. that would make it 173g

25

[quote]Brown_Lifter wrote:
isnt it generally one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. that would make it 173g[/quote]

depends on the source.

26

It’s my opinion that if one gets “far enough” to be a PT, this simple nutrition question should be able to be handled by that PT.

Isn’t this (knowing how to train someone for a certain goal but not knowing how to eat for that goal) like knowing how to steer a car but not knowing how to press the gas pedal?

All you can do is get his bodyweight (and estimated bodyfat %), figure out his maintainance level of calories, figure out what macronutrient breakdown you want to use like 30%P, 30%F, 40%C, then come up with the food plan to reach those numbers.

From that figure. you can add 300-500 calories per day and hope like Hell that the client will use all the info you give him and not screw it up.

There are more ways to go about this but it’s a start.

27

Who cares about his macronutrient breakdown and all of this mess…

He needs to eat more CALORIES. PERIOD.

28

[quote]derek wrote:
It’s my opinion that if one gets “far enough” to be a PT, this simple nutrition question should be able to be handled by that PT.

Isn’t this (knowing how to train someone for a certain goal but not knowing how to eat for that goal) like knowing how to steer a car but not knowing how to press the gas pedal?

All you can do is get his bodyweight (and estimated bodyfat %), figure out his maintainance level of calories, figure out what macronutrient breakdown you want to use like 30%P, 30%F, 40%C, then come up with the food plan to reach those numbers.

From that figure. you can add 300-500 calories per day and hope like Hell that the client will use all the info you give him and not screw it up.

There are more ways to go about this but it’s a start.[/quote]

Exactly.

JJ

29

he turned 18 a few weeks ago, he is naturaaly skinny so an ectomorph. I hear what your saying and the best thing to do would be to transfer him to a nutritionist as I am out of league with this one. I’m man enough to admit it when it’s not working and someone else may be able to help.

Many thanks and happy lifting

30

To all.

Thanks for replying to my question. Advice has been great.

I appreciate what you are saying and understand 100%… however not once have I ever advertised myself to any of my clients as a nutritionist, I explain to all my clients that nutrition is not my speciality, I train people based on techniques I have been taught, the knowledge I recieved from my NVQ training, and trainig methods I have learnt from my time in semi-pro sport.

I am a qualified Personal Trainer on the REPs register nothing more. People come to me because 9/10 times I get results (I say 9/10 times because I have let myself down with this client) in saying that his strength has increased as I have stated previously, and now I am looking to try to build him up as that was his original goal.

For those who were wondering about the swimming. He quit swimming about 4 months ago, at the time when he came to me 6 months ago he was looking for size as he was fed up with swimming, “it wasn’t giving me the muscle I want” to quote him.

However I am man enough to admit that I have made a mistake and it is clear that this client is fast becoming out of my league, thus I will be recommending that he go see a qualified nutritionist.

Many thanks all and keep lifting

p.s for Joe Joseph, I understand what your saying and so that you are aware, I am not charging this client, he is a friend of a friend and understands that I am using him for experience, as I have done and explained to all of my other clients who claim to this day that they would still use me as their trainer. But thanks for your “words of wisdom”

31

OK… I was harsh then and i apologize. If you are telling them at the beginning that you do not do nutrition - that is fine on all accounts.In tht case…

Try to get them to eat between 17-20kcals per GOAL Bodyweight.
Get them to eat 1-1.5Grams per lb of current bodyweight in protein.
Get them to eat massive amounts of carbs. carbs build mass. 2-3gx bodyweight in carbs.
Get them to add flax or extra virgin olive oil to protein shakes, just not add it to shakes that have any carbs in. Insulin + Fat = Fat Storage.

Stress that they nmeed to be eating till full and having a sandwich and then a big ol shake. They will feel sick and tired of eatng so much.

If they want mass. this is how we do it!

Joe

32

Joe,

Thanks for your advice, it’s nice to see that there are people other than myself who can admit when they have made a mistake. Can I ask why the mass amount of carbs? I know you need them for the energy to train, that is common knowledge, but I have been led to understand by other trainers that without correct cardio, there size will increase naturally but so will fat % thus resulting in muscle definition leaving? Or am i being told the wrong information?

33

Well that is true really - but the thing is, it is highly difficult to increase size without a decent amount of carbs… and fat gain. It IS possible (see anabolic diet).

One trick i and a few other well respected posters here (Professor X is one i know of) use is the DoggCrapp Dante’s carb cutoff ideas, of course people did this before him, but he has re-popularised it as a strategy in and of itself.

The idea is after 6 or 7pm, say about 4 hours before bed, you stop ingesting carbs. It has allowed me to trim a little off the gut, but i AM trying to tighten up a little, so my calories are watched and so is my total carbs.

When i am bulking, i really go for it, massive carbs, massive calories. Massive sugar too… It does make me hold more fat, but it does increase my muscle mass too. That is changing for me though…

A good way to try to watch the weight and bulk up (Something i am leaning towards more as i get older) is eating clean all year, i do gain less fat if i replace the white bread with ww and the potato/ with wholegrain rice and the white pasta with wg.

Plus if i add flax to my shake only at night for the last one for about 10g of fatty acids and 50g of protein…

It is a personal thing, that is what is rock hard with training someone and doing their diet… they have to be decicated and eat what needs to be eaten, only a small proportion of humans are capable of that - even the most disciplined find it tough…

But the take home message is, if you really really want mass, at any cost… be prepared to gain some fat. The mantra is, it takes years to build muscle, months to lose fat. However, that isnt carved in stone, if you are careful… you can do this>>

If your client isnt gaining, he can 100% deal with more carbs (and protein - 2g/kg isnt enough - not for bodybuilding/maximum muscle mass) without getting fat, as he isnt gaining, he must be maintaining… i would suggest increasing his calories by 500kcal a week until you see the scales move - shoot for 1-2lbs a week gain, and also when that stops, increase some more… keep foods to LOW GI carbs, well high fibre, low ft, high protein, low sugar. high calorie. this is the hard way to gain but allows you to gain leaner gains.

Aim for a macronutrient breakdown of 15% fat, 35-40% protein and the rest carbs…

what you think mate?

Joe

ps. Hell send me a cheque and refer his nutrition to me!!

34

May just do that, i’ll have a chat with him and tell him to visit this site and to get in contact with you.

It sounds good, the problem I think I will have is convincing to increase in muscle mass, you have to be prepared to put on some fat, most people don’t like to hear that haha.

Ok so it is a case of uping his food intake by more, and just wait for the scales to move…hes weighing in at around 78kg-80kg so as soon as this begins to increase I should up more.

As I said, i’ll get on to him about this website and to get into contact with you. You know more than me with the diet anyway so would be a good move for him.

Cheers Joe

Many thanks and keep lifting

35

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Who cares about his macronutrient breakdown and all of this mess…

He needs to eat more CALORIES. PERIOD.[/quote]

Yeah, it’s a stupid ldea to keep track of how much protein you’re taking in per day compared to carbs per day. And it’s also stupid to know how much fat is in (or not in)your diet!

Geez, I wish I knew as much as your last statement shows you know about nutrition.

I’m just going to eat an entire box of Corn Flakes now so I can get HUGE!

36

rofl!!!1

37

I can never follow a macro nutrient breakdown, i just go like this:

Protein - get it, i weigh 175, i like to get about 200 - 250, more cant hurt but usually it doesn’t happen.

Carbs - eat lots of them, sugars in the morning and after workout, the rest low GI tapering off to fats in the night

Fats - healthy fats, as well as a few saturated fats from meats and stuff, if I’m bulking I dont really care, the more fats the better, eat fish oil all day and tons of fats at night.

then i just try any make this add up to about 4000 ~ approx

i used to count calories a lot so i have a general idea of how much of what is in food, then i just round down to be sure.

so say 6 meals 700 calories each, get your protein

38

That is enough in my opinion schultz… and more than the average bear does i bet.

That is about as simple as in needs to be, but still have you in control.

Joe

39

[quote]derek wrote:
mr popular wrote:
Who cares about his macronutrient breakdown and all of this mess…

He needs to eat more CALORIES. PERIOD.

Yeah, it’s a stupid ldea to keep track of how much protein you’re taking in per day compared to carbs per day. And it’s also stupid to know how much fat is in (or not in)your diet!

Geez, I wish I knew as much as your last statement shows you know about nutrition.

I’m just going to eat an entire box of Corn Flakes now so I can get HUGE!

[/quote]

Dude, who the hell said to eat an entire box of corn flakes…

The fact of the matter is, if this kid isn’t gaining weight it is because he isn’t consuming enough calories and that is the FIRST issue that needs to be addressed.

You can up his protein intake and cycle his carbs and get the perfect ratios for everything but its going to mean absolutely nothing until you significantly up the calories he is taking in. In fact, making sure his fats are perfect and his carbs are timed just right and he’s getting in 200 grams of full amino acid chained proteins and every technical diet trick you want to throw at him… it may help a percent or two but this is not where the main FOCUS needs to be at.

Did I say lets forget sensible nutritional practices and eat 5000 calories a day worth of sugar and saturated fat? No.

Does this 18 year old kid who has trouble putting on weight need to be timing and scrutinizing his every carbohydrate, and getting the perfect proportion of fats into his meals? No. He just needs to eat enough good wholesome food to grow on for a while.

It’s as though you believe someone who is training hard and staying active is going to get sloppy and fat on a bulk because all their pasta wasn’t whole-grain, and they didn’t regulate their daily fat intake…

Come on guys. lets use our heads a little please.

40

[quote]mr popular wrote:

The fact of the matter is, if this kid isn’t gaining weight it is because he isn’t consuming enough calories and that is the FIRST issue that needs to be addressed.

You can up his protein intake and cycle his carbs and get the perfect ratios for everything but its going to mean absolutely nothing until you significantly up the calories he is taking in. In fact, making sure his fats are perfect and his carbs are timed just right and he’s getting in 200 grams of full amino acid chained proteins and every technical diet trick you want to throw at him… it may help a percent or two but this is not where the main FOCUS needs to be at.

Did I say lets forget sensible nutritional practices and eat 5000 calories a day worth of sugar and saturated fat? No.

Does this 18 year old kid who has trouble putting on weight need to be timing and scrutinizing his every carbohydrate, and getting the perfect proportion of fats into his meals? No. He just needs to eat enough good wholesome food to grow on for a while.

It’s as though you believe someone who is training hard and staying active is going to get sloppy and fat on a bulk because all their pasta wasn’t whole-grain, and they didn’t regulate their daily fat intake…

Come on guys. lets use our heads a little please.[/quote]

Try telling the typical 18 year old to “eat more” in an attemp to get bigger. He MAY eat more, he may not.

More of what?

More protein?

More waffles?

And how the hell do you know what your lacking if you don’t know what your eating in the first place?

Do you think an 18 year old that can’t figure out how to lift weights by himself can be told to “eat more” and he’ll know what steps to take next?

“Eat more protein”? Does that mean he’s adding 20 grams per day to the 60 grams he was eating before? Or does it mean adding 50 grams to the 180 grams he was eating before?

How do you know?

And who said anything about scruitinizing ANYTHING? All I’m talking about is getting an idea of where he’s at so you know where to go next.

Blindly telling a kid that has no clue about what to eat in the first place to “eat more” is just asking for trouble not to mention a recipe for failure unless he somehow has a revelation to eat more steak tips, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, tuna, chicken, whole milk etc. instead of Doritos and Coke.

Trust me, having a mature, professional ADULT pay good money for you to tell them EXACTLY what to eat and when is no guarantee that they’ll do it. You can pretty much assume telling a kid to “eat more” wont get the job done either.