Advice on Nagging Lower Back Problem?

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]mthomps wrote:
I’m aware that asking advice on medical issues online isnt the best way to go, however before I go see a doctor (no medical insurance) i want to make sure this can’t be corrected on my own.

First let me describe the problem, then at the end I’ll show my routine.

My weights are shooting way up. I’m squating 315 easily for 5x5 and this past week i deadlifted 405 3x6. Lately near the end of a heavy squat session for mid to high reps my lower back/glutes get this tight pain.

Almost like my muscles aren’t long enough. Its the worst when I stand. When I sit the pain almost goes away. I’ve found that extensive hamstring stretching before the squats prolongs the onset of the pain.

This seems to happen only when I start to hit heavy weights. It’s my worst fear that squating and deadlifting heavy aren’t in my future. I love to lift this way and not being able to would be devestating. I’m only 21.

Here’s my routine: rep ranges for the squat and deadlift are 5x5, 3x6, 4x4. Taking a break from doubles and triples.

Monday: deadlift
pull up/chin up
bent over barbell row
cable row
one armed dumbell row

tuesday: sledgehammer training

Wednsday: Barbell Bench Press
Dumbell Overhead Press
Dumbell Bench Press
Dips

Thursday: Back Squat
Front Squat
Barbell Lunges

Friday: Dumbell Bench Press
Cable Rows
Barbell Bench Press
One armed dumbell row
Dips

FYI: next week I’m going to be switching the squat day to Friday and the chest day to Tuesday, leaving wednsday as the sledgehammer day in hopes of giving my CNS and trunk a little more time off between the deads and squats.

If anyone has any info on how I can correct this without having to see a doctor…I’d really really appreciate the advice.

Thank you

Matt[/quote]

Matt,

I’m only 24 and I have (or had rather) lower back problems just like you. Mine stemmed from a deadlift gone wrong and I had major inflammation and pain whenever I would stand up. Went to a spine specialist and the guy prescribed me 6 weeks of Feldene.

Lets just say I’m 2 weeks into my 'scipt and my back is 95% healed. The pain went from unbearable to non-existent. I highly recommend you talk to your doc about Feldene. Good luck.

Maj

42

[quote] Flow wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/the_lumbar_stability_thread

Want the sparknotes for spine health?
(Basically what I’ve gathered form reading MANY articles and a textbook by Mcgill on the matter)

Mobilize the hip musculature to an optimal length, activate “dormant” gluteals, and strengthen your abdominals around a neutral lumbar spine.

How?

Strengthening
-planks
-birddogs
-curl-ups with neutral spine
-side planks
-deadbug variations

Flexibility
-squat-to-stands, squat-to-stands, and squat-to-stands
-stretch what is tight. . . the hip is too complex to give a one-size-fits-all answer

Activation
-Gluteals
–supine bridges
–clams

Your goal is to get as strong a core as possible (yeah, I said core) and get as flexible as you need to be. Pick dynamic mobility drills over static stretching, but static stretching is effective for decreasing excessive neural drive to muscles, so it should be used in specific instances as well.

I remember EC mentioning that hamstrings tightness can actually be a protective mechanism in compensation for inactive glutes by posteriorly tilting the pelvis in the gluteals’ stead.

This means that, if tight hamstrings are causing your sacrum to ‘tuck’ at the bottom of a squat, glute activation should certainly accompany hamstring static stretches.

BTW, I’m a college student and I’m certainly not infallible, however I have read a good deal on the subject, and I’ve found the former information to be affective in my own case. Check out the my log. ~5 weeks after a disc injury and I’m back to ~parallel~ box front squatting.[/quote]

Good job Flow.

I want to add a tip about the bridges for gluteal activation. I didn’t really make progress with this until I did the Gray Cook hip lift, which is basically a one-leg bridge with the opposite leg pulled to the chest.

Pulling up the non-working leg takes the dominant lower back out of the movement, so you make a lot more progress in the glute activation. I found that in this version, I could not even budge my left hip off the ground.

So, in 2-leg bridges, I wasn’t activating that left glute at all; my lower back and right leg were doing all the work. This was relevant to my pain which was generally on the left side as well.

So, for glute activation, try single-leg bridges with the opposite leg pulled toward the chest.

43

[quote]andersons wrote:
Flow wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/the_lumbar_stability_thread

Want the sparknotes for spine health?
(Basically what I’ve gathered form reading MANY articles and a textbook by Mcgill on the matter)

Mobilize the hip musculature to an optimal length, activate “dormant” gluteals, and strengthen your abdominals around a neutral lumbar spine.

How?

Strengthening
-planks
-birddogs
-curl-ups with neutral spine
-side planks
-deadbug variations

Flexibility
-squat-to-stands, squat-to-stands, and squat-to-stands
-stretch what is tight. . . the hip is too complex to give a one-size-fits-all answer

Activation
-Gluteals
–supine bridges
–clams

Your goal is to get as strong a core as possible (yeah, I said core) and get as flexible as you need to be. Pick dynamic mobility drills over static stretching, but static stretching is effective for decreasing excessive neural drive to muscles, so it should be used in specific instances as well.

I remember EC mentioning that hamstrings tightness can actually be a protective mechanism in compensation for inactive glutes by posteriorly tilting the pelvis in the gluteals’ stead.

This means that, if tight hamstrings are causing your sacrum to ‘tuck’ at the bottom of a squat, glute activation should certainly accompany hamstring static stretches.

BTW, I’m a college student and I’m certainly not infallible, however I have read a good deal on the subject, and I’ve found the former information to be affective in my own case. Check out the my log. ~5 weeks after a disc injury and I’m back to ~parallel~ box front squatting.

Good job Flow.

I want to add a tip about the bridges for gluteal activation. I didn’t really make progress with this until I did the Gray Cook hip lift, which is basically a one-leg bridge with the opposite leg pulled to the chest.

Pulling up the non-working leg takes the dominant lower back out of the movement, so you make a lot more progress in the glute activation. I found that in this version, I could not even budge my left hip off the ground.

So, in 2-leg bridges, I wasn’t activating that left glute at all; my lower back and right leg were doing all the work. This was relevant to my pain which was generally on the left side as well.

So, for glute activation, try single-leg bridges with the opposite leg pulled toward the chest.[/quote]

That’s a good suggestion. I’m going to give that a try tonight.

Flow, good job with your post and with your lumbar stability thread. I appreciate the work you put into compiling all that information together.

44

[quote]fatcat wrote:

<< as well, I had a severe case of APT and I started adding in lots of hammy/glute activation and ab work and work and the pain has gotten to a manegable level.

I saw a chiropractor recently and he informed my that the right side of my back was dominant and that my hip was being pulled out of place, with the left side dropping cause the right side was doing all the work.[/quote]

Although glute activation and ab work are important and helpful, I could never really fix my APT with all the attention I devoted to glute activation, abs, and hip flexors. The glutes wouldn’t activate with the hip tilted in that position, and the hip flexors refused to give.

What FIXED my APT quickly and dramatically was foam rolling the thoracic spine (also holding the thoracic extension stretch for awhile on the foam roller), and tennis ball work around the scapula.

Also, check my previous post for a tip on glute activation. This is particularly important for side-to-side imbalances. I have the right-dominant hip as well (and a shorter left leg).

[quote] So I’m ready to attack this problem. I’m starting a regimen of core work and lots of foam rolling and tennis ball work on my quads glutes hamstrings and lower back. this thread has been immensely helpful.

ive also ordered magnificent mobility because my original problem started because of a lack of flexibility in the hips, and I’ve also picked up that McGill back health book. [/quote]

You are on the right track. Good luck!

Make sure you tackle the glute medius and piriformis with the foam roller and tennis ball as well.

I have had elbow issues as well, and these also disappeared with the thoracic extension stretch on the foam roller, foam rolling over the thoracic spine, and tennis ball work around the scapula.

When my spine is straight (no excessive kyphosis or lordosis), the scapula retracted, and the shoulders square, not rounding forward excessively, the elbow problems disappear.

I bet if you stand against a wall and roll the tennis ball over your entire traps and around the scapula, you will find a mess of painful knots. Do the same tennis ball work for the upper and mid back as for the lower back and hips.

For the neck, do the same soft tissue trigger point work, but use your hands (unless doing so bothers them or your elbows at this point).

45


By the way, the thoracic foam roller stuff I got from Mike Robertson:

From the article: "Thoracic Extensors, Middle and Lower Trapezius, Rhomboids: With your arms behind your head (not pulling on the neck), lie supine with roller positioned in the middle of your back; your glutes should be on the ground.

Roll upward, reversing direction when you reach the level of the armpits. This is an excellent intervention for correcting kyphosis."

I added a variant in which I hold the position as a passive stretch, extending my arms over my head until I feel all the tight stuff relax.

It is even more effective when doing tennis ball work around the shoulder blades first to loosen them up.

46

[quote]andersons wrote:
Good job Flow.

I want to add a tip about the bridges for gluteal activation. I didn’t really make progress with this until I did the Gray Cook hip lift, which is basically a one-leg bridge with the opposite leg pulled to the chest.

Pulling up the non-working leg takes the dominant lower back out of the movement, so you make a lot more progress in the glute activation. I found that in this version, I could not even budge my left hip off the ground.

So, in 2-leg bridges, I wasn’t activating that left glute at all; my lower back and right leg were doing all the work. This was relevant to my pain which was generally on the left side as well.

So, for glute activation, try single-leg bridges with the opposite leg pulled toward the chest.[/quote]

Thanks!

I just tried that and it rocks. . . Previously I would leave my ‘off’ leg extended in line with my torso during single leg bridging, but that trick is awesome for really feeling it in the glutes.

Gray Cook is awesome. I had a chance to see him speak, and it was a privilege.

47

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
Flow, good job with your post and with your lumbar stability thread. I appreciate the work you put into compiling all that information together.[/quote]

My pleasure, Vader. I hope it helps people out

48

Wow. Thank you guys so much for all of this information. Especially andersons, angryvader, and flow. You three are great.

Cobra Kai, I’m holding off on the doc as long as I can due to lack of insurance, but thank you for the tips.

Here is the video you guys. I tried for a half hour to get it to upload here but it wouldnt take it, then I had to work. Here is a yousendit link. Hopefully someone can tell me if I’m going tail under or doing anything else stupid.

The video is 4 or 5 reps with 315 on the bar. https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=bVlDb3BDOC95UkdGa1E9PQ

49

[quote]Flow wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
Flow, good job with your post and with your lumbar stability thread. I appreciate the work you put into compiling all that information together.

My pleasure, Vader. I hope it helps people out[/quote]

It has already helped me out. Besides the good advice in your posts, the lumbar thread referred me back to a few articles that I had forgotten about and contained things that I need to be doing on a consistent basis.

Thanks again!

50

[quote]mthomps wrote:
Wow. Thank you guys so much for all of this information. Especially andersons, angryvader, and flow. You three are great.

Cobra Kai, I’m holding off on the doc as long as I can due to lack of insurance, but thank you for the tips.

Here is the video you guys. I tried for a half hour to get it to upload here but it wouldnt take it, then I had to work. Here is a yousendit link. Hopefully someone can tell me if I’m going tail under or doing anything else stupid.

The video is 4 or 5 reps with 315 on the bar. https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=bVlDb3BDOC95UkdGa1E9PQ[/quote]

I can’t take any credit. I just mentioned foam rolling and stretching. The credit should go all to andersons and Flow.

Maybe the other guys might have a different opinion, but I thought your squats looked pretty good. I can’t really think of anything that stands out as being bad or wrong.

51

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont know if i have a pelvic tilt or not, i just know that this past week my spine has been killing me.

Well go and look in a mirror and tell me whether you have an APT, instead of complaining about your back. We know it hurts. I’m trying to help. You are not helping yourself. That annoys me.

Bushy[/quote]

i dont think i do and if i ever feel myself starting to slouch or if im slouching in a chair i straighten up for a bit.

it may be plausible that its just from a lot of lower back stress throughout my workouts. romanian deadlifts, overhead pressing, rack-pulls. im guessing they can take their toll after weeks and weeks of use.

like i said before this is somethigns thats come and gone for me. i apoligize if i cant give you adequate information via internet forum but i honestly dont anticipate to find an in depth answer from this forum either.

52

Jesus Live look heres the “idiots” guide to see if you have a tilt.

Look at your pants do they slouch down from the back to front…

You SHOULD have straight wasitline for your pants IF you have no tilt in either direction…

If thats you then YES you have issues.