Advice on My Cycle?

Pharma
21

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
Love how you ask for advice and when Sam_Boy gave you a long, well thought out response you decide to point by point tell them why you are going to ignore him and do what you want anyway.

And btw OP, way to piss of one of the most experienced guys on this subject.[/quote]

@GrizzlyBerg My thoughts exactly, best comment so far :slight_smile:

@OP Look mate don’t take what Reed says too personally, bear in mind this post of yours is something there have been thousands of before and also that he has a massive amount of test in his system :slight_smile: He’s actually a helpful bloke on here and if you plan on using AAS then him and a few others will be a great help if you hit any issues so don’t alienate them.

All of my advice still stands especially the HCG its much better to keep your production going rather than let it shut down and get it going again and the injectable you don’t have to go full on with Tren there are much milder ones that you can throw in with your test pin and orals are harsh but yes you are right a short cycle with some liver support you will be ok.

Just bear in mind that if you run test and dbol then you are going to get water retention because they both aromatise and if you don’t run HCG throughout then when you come off you are going to lose that plus some of your gains before your system picks back up again. Also if your diet and workouts aren’t enabling to put on muscle naturally then chances are you will keep no permanent gains after the cycle.

At least start bulking from now to when you start the cycle so you are gaining muscle but here come the disclaimers;

After a weight loss like you have done then you would benefit from naturally bulking at your age and could probably add as much muscle in the next 6 months through hard training and high protein as you would end up keeping from a aas cycle anyway so consider doing that first and then doing aas to add same again on top.

Now you have mentioned this CNS thing then you really need to research if aas is going to effect that as you don’t want to shorten your life even more or have the remaining years become more uncomfortable. Having said that I fully understand you not wanting to waste time and by the way MS stands for muscular sclerosis.

22

[quote]Sam_Boy wrote:

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
Love how you ask for advice and when Sam_Boy gave you a long, well thought out response you decide to point by point tell them why you are going to ignore him and do what you want anyway.

And btw OP, way to piss of one of the most experienced guys on this subject.[/quote]

@GrizzlyBerg My thoughts exactly, best comment so far :slight_smile:

@OP Look mate don’t take what Reed says too personally, bear in mind this post of yours is something there have been thousands of before and also that he has a massive amount of test in his system :slight_smile: He’s actually a helpful bloke on here and if you plan on using AAS then him and a few others will be a great help if you hit any issues so don’t alienate them.

All of my advice still stands especially the HCG its much better to keep your production going rather than let it shut down and get it going again and the injectable you don’t have to go full on with Tren there are much milder ones that you can throw in with your test pin and orals are harsh but yes you are right a short cycle with some liver support you will be ok.

Just bear in mind that if you run test and dbol then you are going to get water retention because they both aromatise and if you don’t run HCG throughout then when you come off you are going to lose that plus some of your gains before your system picks back up again. Also if your diet and workouts aren’t enabling to put on muscle naturally then chances are you will keep no permanent gains after the cycle.

At least start bulking from now to when you start the cycle so you are gaining muscle but here come the disclaimers;

After a weight loss like you have done then you would benefit from naturally bulking at your age and could probably add as much muscle in the next 6 months through hard training and high protein as you would end up keeping from a aas cycle anyway so consider doing that first and then doing aas to add same again on top.

Now you have mentioned this CNS thing then you really need to research if aas is going to effect that as you don’t want to shorten your life even more or have the remaining years become more uncomfortable. Having said that I fully understand you not wanting to waste time and by the way MS stands for muscular sclerosis.

[/quote]

Thanks for your answer.

About the HCG, how can I store it for 12 weeks? I only have a 5000 IU vial + the solvent that comes with it.
I’ve read that people use bacteriostatic water (which I can easily make), but it’s only good for 4 weeks afaik. I intend to use new needles and syringes every time I draw or inject anything.
If I can be sure that it remains safe for use for 12 weeks, then sure I can inject small doses ED or EOD instead of all 5000 IU at once.
As for the aromatization, won’t Arimidex help? I’m sure I’ll get some water retention anyway, but with a diet lower in salt, do you think I’ll retain a lot of water?

I’m already making satisfying gains naturally. Everytime I go to the gym, I lift heavier and for more reps than before. I just have some issues with overtraining because I do spend a lot of time in the gym because I need it to relieve my stress (and I hoped that AAS would help with that and enable me to train even more).

I’ve been bulking since about mid September, and put on 10 lbs, surely not all 10 are muscle but I did get a lot stronger (and I didn’t lose any muscle definition). I know that you can be very strong as a natty (I have a friend with a 520lbs DL and 320lbs bench press, not sure about his squat, same height as me but weighs 10 more lbs, with a little bit less fat, but he’s been training for strength for 5 years), but I’d greatly benefit from doing it quicker.

My goal would be to keep 7 to 10 lbs of my gains. Do you think that’d be possible?

23

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
And btw OP, way to piss of one of the most experienced guys on this subject.[/quote]

no offense intended but this is debatable.
[/quote]

Agreed

But none the less thank you Grizzy Berg[/quote]

I think I meant to say knowledgeable. Plus Reed knows and has shared what his AAS use has led to in his life (which is very applicable in the given situation). The advice he gave to that kid in the prohormone thread pretty much summed up why I would listen to his advice on the subject. Plus it seems like a lot of the more experienced, resident AAS users have left the forums due to kids like the OP.

24

[quote]Sam_Boy wrote:
MS stands for Multiple Sclerosis.
[/quote]

Fixed

25

OP, you’re not gonna get what your looking for if you don’t know how to eat. You’ll lose all your gains when you come off, because you don’t know how to eat

26

[quote]beastyqt wrote:

Thanks for your answer.

About the HCG, how can I store it for 12 weeks? I only have a 5000 IU vial + the solvent that comes with it.
I’ve read that people use bacteriostatic water (which I can easily make), but it’s only good for 4 weeks afaik. I intend to use new needles and syringes every time I draw or inject anything.
If I can be sure that it remains safe for use for 12 weeks, then sure I can inject small doses ED or EOD instead of all 5000 IU at once.
As for the aromatization, won’t Arimidex help? I’m sure I’ll get some water retention anyway, but with a diet lower in salt, do you think I’ll retain a lot of water?

I’m already making satisfying gains naturally. Everytime I go to the gym, I lift heavier and for more reps than before. I just have some issues with overtraining because I do spend a lot of time in the gym because I need it to relieve my stress (and I hoped that AAS would help with that and enable me to train even more).

I’ve been bulking since about mid September, and put on 10 lbs, surely not all 10 are muscle but I did get a lot stronger (and I didn’t lose any muscle definition). I know that you can be very strong as a natty (I have a friend with a 520lbs DL and 320lbs bench press, not sure about his squat, same height as me but weighs 10 more lbs, with a little bit less fat, but he’s been training for strength for 5 years), but I’d greatly benefit from doing it quicker.

My goal would be to keep 7 to 10 lbs of my gains. Do you think that’d be possible?[/quote]

What is the solvent you got with it? If you keep it in fridge and mix it right I think it will keep the 12 weeks but someone may need to confirm this. If you don’t want to pin separate throw 250IU in each of your other pins if you opt for twice per week, once will not be enough or pin it EOD with an insulin pin sub q.

Salt and water retention is true but steroid aromatisation is a bit of different league what you don’t want is stretch marks through being small and putting on a stone of water you then lose in such a short time and what you also don’t want is to think you have gained loads and then piss it out.

By gains do you mean in strength or are you adding muscle currently?

7 to 10 lb is realistic but you could do that in 6 months naturally at your age with your stats and keeping it goes back to what BUDs says if you aren’t eating enough of the right stuff then when you are off AAS you will lose it all gradually so my advice if you are hell bent on this is decide what you doing order your gear, carry on training and eating naturally and then when you hit a plateau start your cycle.

27

[quote]Sam_Boy wrote:
What is the solvent you got with it? If you keep it in fridge and mix it right I think it will keep the 12 weeks but someone may need to confirm this. If you don’t want to pin separate throw 250IU in each of your other pins if you opt for twice per week, once will not be enough or pin it EOD with an insulin pin sub q.

Salt and water retention is true but steroid aromatisation is a bit of different league what you don’t want is stretch marks through being small and putting on a stone of water you then lose in such a short time and what you also don’t want is to think you have gained loads and then piss it out.

By gains do you mean in strength or are you adding muscle currently?

7 to 10 lb is realistic but you could do that in 6 months naturally at your age with your stats and keeping it goes back to what BUDs says if you aren’t eating enough of the right stuff then when you are off AAS you will lose it all gradually so my advice if you are hell bent on this is decide what you doing order your gear, carry on training and eating naturally and then when you hit a plateau start your cycle.
[/quote]

I’ll get everything on monday, but the solvent should be sterile water and not bacteriostatic water.
I don’t have a problem with subcutaneous injections, I can do them separately if need be (like one subQ EW and I can throw the other one with my test… but I’m thinking about doing EOD Test E instead of EW because of what you’ve said). I’m not afraid of needles, I’m used to having IV pins 5-6 times a day when I’m in the hospital so… I just wanted to inject myself less often because I don’t want to risk an infection or something.

Hmm, okay, I see. I didn’t think about stretch marks at all but you are right. It’s a very interesting point, and I remember reading about it. I already have a bunch of stretch marks because I got really fat really quickly though, but when I expose them to sunlight they permanently change color from pink to my skin color (pale white on most of my body) and I don’t mind them because you can’t see them anymore.

I’m gaining both strength and volume, even though I mostly train for strength. When I feel like I’m not improving anymore, I switch things up a little bit and I keep getting bigger and stronger.
I’m making very satisfying progress, I just would like to speed it up. I’m very dedicated to my training and diet, and have a very extensive knowledge of both and the way they interact (because of my scientific background, I can understand any study that’s ever been done about these two topics). I know about everything they teach at Uni about athlete physical performance preparation, I know what supplements I should take, why, how they work, etc, what I should and shouldn’t eat depending on my goals etc etc…

I know that I could catch up to my friend in probably about 2 years with dedication, focus, …, but my goal is to do that even faster. If I keep 10 pounds out of a 3 month cycle, I’ll be a few months away from him, and not a few years away.

Some people will probably laugh when they read this but I, and only I, know how dedicated I am about this (you don’t lose 50 lbs of fat in 6-7 months and stay lean if your diet is crap and you’re not a 400lbs obese fuck, my costly nutritionist composes diets for olympic athletes and has taught me most of what I know, and my training, form, … have been taught to me by a friend who coaches olympic athletes).

I’ll think about delaying my cycle until I reach a plateau that I have trouble breaking (which hasn’t happened so far but I suppose it will at some point?). I’ll be getting my gear on Monday, so I’ll think about it.

28

Some great advice so far, I hope you can make it work for you. Maybe you can talk to your neurologist about the HCG? It’s extra important that you prevent your nuts from shutting down during a cycle. There are other hormones being produced there that support CNS (mental) functioning. I don’t know which disease you’re dealing with but if it’s brain related (as opposed to “only” spinal), last thing you want is ending up with, for example, a clinical depression a few weeks into your cycle.

29

You want bac water not sterile water. Hcg will stay good for 10-12 weeks, keep in your fridge. Should be used on cycle 250iu 3x a week.

30

[quote]BUDs wrote:
You want bac water not sterile water. Hcg will stay good for 10-12 weeks, keep in your fridge. Should be used on cycle 250iu 3x a week.[/quote]

Okay thanks :slight_smile: I’d read that sterile water is good for 1 day and bac water for 4 weeks. Though I don’t doubt your experience, could anyone confirm this? I’d be quite unhappy to inject myself with a brew of bacteria, I’m sure you understand :slight_smile:
I’ve read that injecting HCG straight out of the fridge (or anything cold) is a very painful experience, could you comment? Should I leave the vial at room temperature for 1-2 hours before injection, or is it bearable?

[quote]grippit wrote:
Some great advice so far, I hope you can make it work for you. Maybe you can talk to your neurologist about the HCG? It’s extra important that you prevent your nuts from shutting down during a cycle. There are other hormones being produced there that support CNS (mental) functioning. I don’t know which disease you’re dealing with but if it’s brain related (as opposed to “only” spinal), last thing you want is ending up with, for example, a clinical depression a few weeks into your cycle.[/quote]

I have this covered, as I’ve seen that people sometimes get suicidal when on gear (especially on PCT apparently). I’ll also get my bloodwork (hormones, liver, thyroid, kidneys) done 1-2 times on cycle (at least once during and once at the end, before PCT), then once when my PCT is supposed to be complete and everything is supposed to be back to normal, and then one last time 1-2 months afterwards. If everything goes as planned, of course.

Should a major issue arise, what is the proper way to halt the cycle?
Should I stop all pinning and act as if I reached the end of it? Wait two weeks on Adex then go for my PCT?

Thanks for reading guys :slight_smile:

Edit :

Also, I was wondering something. I couldn’t find too much info about this.
As far as diet on AAS is concerned, should I bump the calories up as soon as I start pinning or is it better to wait until I begin to feel the effects of test kicking in/start dbol (since dbol seems to have immediate effect)?

31

[quote]beastyqt wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:
You want bac water not sterile water. Hcg will stay good for 10-12 weeks, keep in your fridge. Should be used on cycle 250iu 3x a week.[/quote]

Okay thanks :slight_smile: I’d read that sterile water is good for 1 day and bac water for 4 weeks. Though I don’t doubt your experience, could anyone confirm this? I’d be quite unhappy to inject myself with a brew of bacteria, I’m sure you understand :slight_smile:
I’ve read that injecting HCG straight out of the fridge (or anything cold) is a very painful experience, could you comment? Should I leave the vial at room temperature for 1-2 hours before injection, or is it bearable?

[quote]grippit wrote:
Some great advice so far, I hope you can make it work for you. Maybe you can talk to your neurologist about the HCG? It’s extra important that you prevent your nuts from shutting down during a cycle. There are other hormones being produced there that support CNS (mental) functioning. I don’t know which disease you’re dealing with but if it’s brain related (as opposed to “only” spinal), last thing you want is ending up with, for example, a clinical depression a few weeks into your cycle.[/quote]

I have this covered, as I’ve seen that people sometimes get suicidal when on gear (especially on PCT apparently). I’ll also get my bloodwork (hormones, liver, thyroid, kidneys) done 1-2 times on cycle (at least once during and once at the end, before PCT), then once when my PCT is supposed to be complete and everything is supposed to be back to normal, and then one last time 1-2 months afterwards. If everything goes as planned, of course.

Should a major issue arise, what is the proper way to halt the cycle?
Should I stop all pinning and act as if I reached the end of it? Wait two weeks on Adex then go for my PCT?

Thanks for reading guys :slight_smile:

Edit :

Also, I was wondering something. I couldn’t find too much info about this.
As far as diet on AAS is concerned, should I bump the calories up as soon as I start pinning or is it better to wait until I begin to feel the effects of test kicking in/start dbol (since dbol seems to have immediate effect)?[/quote]

  1. Buds is correct
  2. Injecting anything cold usually results in alot more pain. Causes everything to crystallize much faster, makes it harder to inject, and it all like to bunch up in where ever it was injected as opposed to dispersing.
  3. If you get suicidal or honestly homicidal then stop the Tren. Do not stop the Test immediately. The last thing want if your suicidal is to completely shut your bodies production down as now you will just compound suicidal, with cranky, pissed off, tired, sore, depression and a good chance of you not getting your dick to work… See where I’m going if you didn’t wanna kill some one or yourself before that then you def will after.
  4. There is no rule as to whether when or even if you should increase the calories just because your on gear. If your meeting your requirements to grow naturally than it will be that much faster when on. Alot of people think just because your on gear you can just eat and eat and eat without gaining fat. I promise this is not true and you can and will wind up fatter but with bigger muscles and stronger. Its your call, your goals, your physique.
  5. I guess good luck personally I still think your making a big mistake and half of me hopes something goes wrong just so I can laugh at you but, that’s probably the 2000mg of Test talking.
32

[quote]Reed wrote:

  1. Buds is correct
  2. Injecting anything cold usually results in alot more pain. Causes everything to crystallize much faster, makes it harder to inject, and it all like to bunch up in one wee of where it was injected as opposed to dispersing.
  3. If you get suicidal or honestly homicidal then stop the Tren. Do not stop the Test immediately. The last thing want if your suicidal is to completely shut your bodies production down as now you will just compound suicidal, with cranky, pissed off, tired, sore, depression and a good chance of you not getting your dick to work… See where I’m going if you didn’t wanna kill some one or yourself before that then you def will after.
  4. There is no rule as to whether when or even if you should increase the calories just because your on gear. If your meeting your requirements to grow naturally than it will be that much faster when on. Alot of people think just because your on gear you can just eat and eat and eat without gaining fat. I promise this is not true and you can and will wind up fatter but with bigger muscles and stronger. Its your call, your goals, your physique.
  5. I guess good luck personally I still think your making a big mistake and half of me hopes something goes wrong just so I can laugh at you but, that’s probably the 2000mg of Test talking. [/quote]

Wow, that’s the exact type of answer I’m looking for. First-hand, short, to the point, and complete. Thank you very much!

  1. Great! :slight_smile:
  2. Oh, I see, that’s why injections are more painful. Is it excruciating pain or bearable?
  3. I was going for test/dbol, because tren seemed too powerful to start with, and since it requires its own ancillary (cabergolin, if I’m not mistaken), I wanted to leave it for another cycle if I ever do a second one. Because I’m so far from my natural potential, I think that even Test E alone should be enough to help me get satisfying gains. Am I correct or should I get a vial of Tren E?
  4. Well this is definitely the first time I’ve ever read that. I’ve read so many times to bump the calories up while on gear that I supposed I should. I still think I should do a small increase but I won’t go bonkers with it, since I’m quite short, I don’t want to have a width:height ratio too high. I’ll see how it goes and adapt my current diet.
  5. Thanks. I understand your standpoint (and reading this made me laugh because I’d hope the same thing if our roles were reversed).

I’ve read that you now have problems with your natural test level, would you be so kind as to explain me how it happened, or link me a thread where you explain your cycle and where it went wrong (if you have know why, ofc)?

Thanks.

33

Lol what’s it matter man bearable or insane pain can be replaced with barely noticing it of you let it warm up a bit. Also completely depends on what kind of gear water based may be less painful cold but oil cold sucks major dick and no way id do it on purpose. Also has alot with how well the gear is made if its pharmaceutical grade it may not be that bad but, I have had some UGL stuff that no matter what you did had some pip and shooting it cold would have only multiplied this.

You def do not need Tren for a first time cycle. I dont know why but I thought you said you were running Tren that’s a mistake on my part. Honestly running Test and Dbol you should have zero mental issues negatively speaking any ways.

Thats all I’m saying is dont just start eating everything you see. Add 50-100g of protein and some extra fata to your diet. That’s a extra 500 calories daily which is plenty of a increase. I gain strength very well and maintain the same body weight at about 2500-3000 calories daily. I’m 5’ 6-7" at best and weigh in 210. So you at 155lbs probably would need about 2500 to gain strength and a good bit of size. Just don’t think you need some 4000-5000 calorie diet while your on. You also dobt have the fastest metabolism as you have been much fatter and out of shape before which means your body will easily return to the same state if not careful.

As to my situation… When you start these drugs your body completely shuts down its natural production of testosterone. When you cone off the drugs 9\10 times even if your levels return to a exceptable level it will be lower than it was. This effect is compounded in younger guys whose body is still developing. At 22 your body is still growing and developing. So unfortunately when I went onto these drugs my system shit down and just never came back on mind you I was 19 when this first became evident (I am 22 now) . Some people are luckier than other but starting before your body reaches a certain level it lowers your odds greatly of recovering fully.

34

It’ll be water based, cold oil depending on the oil can be almost solid, I def understand why you wouldn’t inject that.
The gear comes from a reputable source (or so I’ve heard… there’s a 120+ pages thread on that source on a French forum… everyone’s saying they sell good stuff, from a real lab and not made in a garage…).

You thought I was using Tren because Sam_Boy posted his cycle and intends to use it on his first cycle and recommended that I swap dianabol with trenbolone enanthate :slight_smile:

I was aiming for 3500-4000 when I spoke about “bumping calories” because I’ve read it everywhere but I’ll stick to 2500-3000 (3000 if I don’t get fatter, if so then I’ll go for 2500).

Well, that’s very unfortunate… can you still get a hard on? And did you take fertility tests?

If I do decide to start my cycle on Monday (which I probably will), I’ll transform this thread into a journal and maybe post a before/after picture… we’ll see :slight_smile:
I also will upload my first post with an updated cycle (main change will be HCG on cycle) :slight_smile:

35

Hcg will degrade left at room temp. Bac will stay good well beyond 4 weeks. The injection is not painful at all I don’t even feel it, I pull it right out of the fridge and pin it Subq.

If your getting 5000iu vials mix it with 2mls bac water. Use slin pins Subq in the belly. On a 1ml slin the 10 mark will be 250iu, 3x a week while on cycle stopping 4-5 days before pct.

I would slightly increase the food intake but not where your gaining a whole
Bunch of fat

Just like reed my own T levels have drop significantly over the years after running many cycles and now I never come off and blast and cruise. If I come off my sex drive drops my energy drops and I lose muscle and weight, not saying it will happen to you but something to think about.

36

Don’t shoot cold oil your gear can be left in room temp and warmed up before injection. Keep
The hcg cold it will degrade if not

37

3000 would be a good start if seeing mainly lean gains then you may wanna up about 200 calories daily for a week and see what happens adjust slowly.

Ahhh ok makes sense I missed the Tren and Samboy thing.

As for getting a hard on yes I can as long as I’m on a TRT dose atleast. Usually any lower than 200mg a week and start losing interest in sex and if I come off entirely I can’t get it up even with Viagra. But as long as I’m on I feel like a million bucks and everything is perfect.

Fertility I did a few months just out of curiosity and I can’t remember what the actual number was but according to my doc chances of me ever having a child with put a pretty extensive routine of drugs are pretty much 0. Which personally I’m ok with.

38

So I have a question regarding this temperature thing. Obviously if you keep a peptide like HCG in the fridge then it keeps longer but the coldness causes pain so rather than get the vial out each time and let it warm is it ok to load the pin and let in warn up in there? I’m just thinking if you keep getting the vial out let it warm and put it back in fridge twice a week its going to cause it to degrade over 12 week use of the same hcg vial.

I am running test e and tren e both stored in the fridge and oil based (quite watery oil if that makes sense) , hcg, ipamorelin, mod grf and peg mgf which are all peptides also stored in the fridge in bac water so if I load all these in the pin and leave it out for how long before it will the right temperature to shoot the lot would you say?

I pin first time this sunday so just getting some last minute prep done.

39

Aren’t you going a little overboard for your first cycle? Why not keep it simple and see how things go?

Watery oil doesn’t make sense, if you mean that it isn’t as thick as sunflower oil, it just has a lower viscosity :slight_smile: this depends on what type of oil the manufacturer uses to dissolve the test/tren :slight_smile:
I wouldn’t leave it out for too long because there are bacteria in the air and on whatever surface you’ll be leaving the syringe, and you probably don’t want to inject that.
I would definitely leave the test and tren at room temperature though because there is simply no reason to refrigerate them. They won’t damage over time ; the only reason HCG and other water-soluble stuff is kept in the fridge is because it slows down the development of bacteria inside.
If you’re going to warm it up in the syringe, you should hold the syringe container in your hand for 1-2 minutes but be careful not to touch the sterile parts (needle and so on).

Hmm, I thought I had answered both of you (Reed and BUDs) but it seems I forgot to click “submit”.
I wanted to thank you for your answers.

I’ll post my updated cycle soon.
I just have a question : how actually important is HCG?

40

[quote]Sam_Boy wrote:
So I have a question regarding this temperature thing. Obviously if you keep a peptide like HCG in the fridge then it keeps longer but the coldness causes pain so rather than get the vial out each time and let it warm is it ok to load the pin and let in warn up in there? I’m just thinking if you keep getting the vial out let it warm and put it back in fridge twice a week its going to cause it to degrade over 12 week use of the same hcg vial.

I am running test e and tren e both stored in the fridge and oil based (quite watery oil if that makes sense) , hcg, ipamorelin, mod grf and peg mgf which are all peptides also stored in the fridge in bac water so if I load all these in the pin and leave it out for how long before it will the right temperature to shoot the lot would you say?

I pin first time this sunday so just getting some last minute prep done.

[/quote]

You don’t need to warm up hcg!! It’s not painful! Just pull it out of the fridge, draw it and shoot and no need to keep your test and tren in the fridge