every single post that T3hPwnisher and hungry4more make on this site teaches me a lot, seriously thanks to both of you.
also very nice bitching about being in a bitchfest about a potential bitchfest going on here.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
every single post that T3hPwnisher and hungry4more make on this site teaches me a lot, seriously thanks to both of you.
also very nice bitching about being in a bitchfest about a potential bitchfest going on here.[/quote]
Glad I could help.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
every single post that T3hPwnisher and hungry4more make on this site teaches me a lot, seriously thanks to both of you.
[/quote]
x2 on this, have adjusted my training a good deal because of both them. Always great advice, with strength and size to back it up.
5’8" 168
Before I started Full Body everyday and did a back day I’d do something like:
Rack Pulls - 5x5 or 6x3
Wide Grip Pullups - 4x6 or 5x5 weighted, then 2 sets of AMAP non-weighted
DB Rows - 4x8-10
Nautilus Pullovers - 4x15
I also incorporate chins in my routine. I do a lot of single handed rows. One of the best exercises I have found for entire lat contraction is single arm pull downs to your side with almost doing an oblique crunch at the same time. I keep them light and high rep.
We have some really impressive backs in here. Well done, all. I think what we have seen is that, for the most part, all of these backs were built with chins/pullups in one form or another.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
What other stuff have you dug up regarding Haney’s back workouts? I really have not read much about his training.
LIke what movements, rep ranges and exercise order did he do?
Sucks I’ve never seen a Hammer Strength machine in my life then lol.[/quote]
Haney wasn’t out of the ordinary with his sets and reps. 3’s and 3’s was what I saw most. As far as movements, it is more about what you DON’T do than listing all of the many things you do to really get a good huge back.[/quote]
What’s the kind of stuff you absolutely think is a complete waste of time in regards to back training then?
[/quote]
Maybe “chin ups”. [/quote]
I mean the biceps chin up where you are basically NOT using your lats as much.
It’s always been my feeling that closer grip pulling work in the vertical plane will have a much better chance of directly stimulating lat growth. That’s not to say that wide grip work will not produce some results, merely that more often than not, it will place more direct stimulus on the teres area. With imaging studies having been available online and in texts for years (I have several books in my home library), this is not something that is even in question IMO. Still, growth in the Teres area is certainly not a horrible thing in terms of rear torso width, but one should not neglect incorporating some type of direct lat stimulation via reverse, neutral, or close grip work.
That said, a nice little combo I always liked was to do straight arm pressdowns with a rope attachment and a slight torso angle immediately followed by close grip pulldowns or pullups using an abbreviated ROM (focusing on the ‘top’ 2/3 of the movement) and getting a full stretch with each repetition.
Certainly this wasn’t the only back movement in my training, but in my early competition efforts to offset my wider hip bones, I really focused on thickening up my lats to bring a more symmetrical effect to my physique.
S
Close grip pulldowns or chins…with a big stretch at the top
Heavy Rows
Kayak Cable Rows
Great post, Stu. I completely agree with the closer grip for vertical pulling. I have always understood that it is much easier for the lats to contract that way. Is that the case? It would seem so. When trying to do wide-grip pullups, I always felt it more in the middle of my back and up into my shoulders.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
When trying to do wide-grip pullups, I always felt it more in the middle of my back and up into my shoulders.[/quote]
Try angling your elbows forward more. It’s much easier to play around with subtle positioning issues doing pulldowns than pullups though. For many, due to how people naturally move their limbs, the wide grip variation with the elbows coming down more towards the rear of the torso will results in more mid-back contraction, just as you have already discovered.
S
Stu you answered my question before I asked it. I am just having a hard time understanding how placement of your hands would make your muscle grow differently from a shape and directional standpoint. Can’t muscles only grow and get stronger? How are we still beleiving that you can shape it differently these days? My comments are as aimed at increasing bicep peaks as they are lat ‘width’ and are just that questions, not sarcasm.
I am no Mr. O but for what it is worth I have always had a wide back and NEVER do anything wider than just a bit more than shoulder width. Fucks with my shoulders. Think somebody mentioned that too.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Stu you answered my question before I asked it. I am just having a hard time understanding how placement of your hands would make your muscle grow differently from a shape and directional standpoint. Can’t muscles only grow and get stronger? How are we still beleiving that you can shape it differently these days? My comments are as aimed at increasing bicep peaks as they are lat ‘width’ and are just that questions, not sarcasm.
I am no Mr. O but for what it is worth I have always had a wide back and NEVER do anything wider than just a bit more than shoulder width. Fucks with my shoulders. Think somebody mentioned that too. [/quote]
I don’t believe anyone was referring to “shaping” a muscle differently.
In fact, I specifically wrote that I think a wide grip helps newer trainers feel their lats better without using their biceps in majority.
That much is essential for optimal lat growth no matter what.
How is it you didn’t understand that?
Just adding mine with everyone else’s.
[photo]38624[/photo]
Good work, Bauber
This is an old pic.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Stu you answered my question before I asked it. I am just having a hard time understanding how placement of your hands would make your muscle grow differently from a shape and directional standpoint. Can’t muscles only grow and get stronger? How are we still beleiving that you can shape it differently these days? My comments are as aimed at increasing bicep peaks as they are lat ‘width’ and are just that questions, not sarcasm.
I am no Mr. O but for what it is worth I have always had a wide back and NEVER do anything wider than just a bit more than shoulder width. Fucks with my shoulders. Think somebody mentioned that too. [/quote]
I don’t believe anyone was referring to “shaping” a muscle differently.
In fact, I specifically wrote that I think a wide grip helps newer trainers feel their lats better without using their biceps in majority.
That much is essential for optimal lat growth no matter what.
How is it you didn’t understand that?[/quote]
Probably because I didnt read your post and was asking Stu a question directly more broad in scope.
Your point makes alot of sense though.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Stu you answered my question before I asked it. I am just having a hard time understanding how placement of your hands would make your muscle grow differently from a shape and directional standpoint. Can’t muscles only grow and get stronger? How are we still beleiving that you can shape it differently these days? My comments are as aimed at increasing bicep peaks as they are lat ‘width’ and are just that questions, not sarcasm.
I am no Mr. O but for what it is worth I have always had a wide back and NEVER do anything wider than just a bit more than shoulder width. Fucks with my shoulders. Think somebody mentioned that too. [/quote]
I don’t believe anyone was referring to “shaping” a muscle differently.
In fact, I specifically wrote that I think a wide grip helps newer trainers feel their lats better without using their biceps in majority.
That much is essential for optimal lat growth no matter what.
How is it you didn’t understand that?[/quote]
Probably because I didnt read your post and was asking Stu a question directly more broad in scope.
Your point makes alot of sense though. [/quote]
That’s cool, but it did come across that way.
I know one thing, I feel my lats working when I do lat pull downs. I felt them even more and saw much greater growth in width when I started doing more wide grip pull downs.
I also do tons of single arm rows going really heavy.
The key to big lats is feeling that muscle working…ad if a wide grip helps you do that better, then you should do it.
That’s how you get a back that people stare at.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Stu you answered my question before I asked it. I am just having a hard time understanding how placement of your hands would make your muscle grow differently from a shape and directional standpoint. Can’t muscles only grow and get stronger? How are we still beleiving that you can shape it differently these days? My comments are as aimed at increasing bicep peaks as they are lat ‘width’ and are just that questions, not sarcasm.
I am no Mr. O but for what it is worth I have always had a wide back and NEVER do anything wider than just a bit more than shoulder width. Fucks with my shoulders. Think somebody mentioned that too. [/quote]
I don’t believe anyone was referring to “shaping” a muscle differently.
In fact, I specifically wrote that I think a wide grip helps newer trainers feel their lats better without using their biceps in majority.
That much is essential for optimal lat growth no matter what.
How is it you didn’t understand that?[/quote]
Probably because I didnt read your post and was asking Stu a question directly more broad in scope.
Your point makes alot of sense though. [/quote]
That’s cool, but it did come across that way.
I know one thing, I feel my lats working when I do lat pull downs. I felt them even more and saw much greater growth in width when I started doing more wide grip pull downs.
I also do tons of single arm rows going really heavy.
The key to big lats is feeling that muscle working…ad if a wide grip helps you do that better, then you should do it.
That’s how you get a back that people stare at.[/quote]
Wasnt meant to. I actually have grown to like you the past few weeks, go figure.
Ive noticed recently that I get the best contraction doing these.
And Pendlay rows have been a game changer for me when I do heavy rows. Recently been doing 5x5 or 6x3’s on my power day.
One of the other things I found really essential for training how to use the lats is using straps. By removing my hands from the equation, I can really focus on pulling with the elbows. I know there are a lot of Billy Badasses out there that refuse to use straps, but for me, when I got over my ego and started using them for almost everything, my lats finally started to grow.
I actually shot a multipart series on the subject a while ago, because I realized it was something that was screwing a lot of people in their training
Parts 2 and 3 are on my channel as well.
I would actually caution against using straps for everything.
The potential to hamper your grip strength is too great…and I never had to train forearms.
[photo]34500[/photo]
I can understand your approach…bu I would actually like to see people feel that muscle working without having to rely on straps if anything.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I would actually caution against using straps for everything.
The potential to hamper your grip strength is too great…and I never had to train forearms.
[photo]34500[/photo]
I can understand your approach…bu I would actually like to see people feel that muscle working without having to rely on straps if anything.[/quote]
I don’t think you can harm your grip strength by using straps, but more by avoiding grip work. It’s akin to the mentality that belts cause a weak core versus neglecting your core causes a weak core.
I still hammer my grip outside of lifting, and am a big fan of Captains of Crush grippers for both reps and timed holds. I just see it as something to train in and of itself, rather than through other movements.