Advice for a Very Large Man....

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:
and you think it would be wiser to add than lose weight, did I understand you?[/quote]

No you didn’t, because you are illiterate and incapable of logical thought. Please quote where I stated he should ADD weight…I believe that logical fallacy is called “STRAWMAN ARGUMENT”

I really hope you were just trolling me and aren’t actually that dumb.[/quote]

What’s so magical about 380 pounds though? If you think he is now excellent for powerlifting, why wouldn’t he be even better at 500 pounds?[/quote]

Please stop before you go full on retard

OP: Make sure your friend ensures he is healthy enough to meet his goals. Weight loss would probably be good for him if he wants to do it, but if he is healthy at that weight, he could be a beast of a PL’er.

I would also advice him to stay off internet message boards. There are some true morons wanting to argue every little semantic possible on there.

22

Thanks for the replies guys. This is going a little more sideways than I thought. He does need to lose weight, I would agree that 380 is probably far to heavy for a person to be, especially when he is untrained, meaning his muscle to fat is probably quite low. There are alot of excellent PLers in the 308 class but their muscle ratio is much higher. I do agree with VTBalla34 that at his height and even his size minus some of the fat make him have a high potential to be successful in PL if the motivation is there. Shit, the ROM he needs for a legit compition bench press (from his big barrel chest to lock out of his t rex length arms) is probably half of what most average size guys would have to do, i’m sure that could lead to some huge numbers given time and training. Anyway, thanks for the responses.

23

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]cparker wrote:
Wanting to get into PL’ing is fine and all and he can still do that but his weight is a serious life threat at this point and needs to be his main priority.[/quote]

Wow you can know this without seeing his medical files or having any sort of clue about what his lifestyle and risk factors are? Where did you acquire this skill?

Sounds like the dude is built to be a powerlifter. I laughed when somebody recommended he lose weight and go down a weight class to be more competitive at powerlifting…this was when he was thought to be 4+ bills. you do realize the superheavy weights start at 308 right? LOL Don’t know that many people cutting 100+ pounds for a meet.[/quote]

I was saying he should go down if he is looking to lose weight which is what I took from the OP’s post. It was one way to handle the psychological aspects of losing large amounts of weight. If he’s only going 400/300/500 (which chances are he’s not even doing that) then he’s going to be more competitive with those theoretical numbers in the 220/242 range then he is in the SHW. Remember, this is not a competitive SHW, this is a random guy who hasn’t gone to the gym much and is (again from how I interpreted the OP) looking to lose weight and get a bit more healthy as well as begin competing in powerlifting.[/quote]

I agree, I think your bang on with this.

24

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I was saying he should go down if he is looking to lose weight which is what I took from the OP’s post. It was one way to handle the psychological aspects of losing large amounts of weight. If he’s only going 400/300/500 (which chances are he’s not even doing that) then he’s going to be more competitive with those theoretical numbers in the 220/242 range then he is in the SHW. Remember, this is not a competitive SHW, this is a random guy who hasn’t gone to the gym much and is (again from how I interpreted the OP) looking to lose weight and get a bit more healthy as well as begin competing in powerlifting.[/quote]

220? So you thought the guy should lose nearly half of his bodyweight (200 pounds+ since we thought he was still 400-450 at this time) to be competitive at PL’ing? I’m confused here.

I obviously know an untrained 380 pounder is not a competitive SHW, but he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.

25

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I was saying he should go down if he is looking to lose weight which is what I took from the OP’s post. It was one way to handle the psychological aspects of losing large amounts of weight. If he’s only going 400/300/500 (which chances are he’s not even doing that) then he’s going to be more competitive with those theoretical numbers in the 220/242 range then he is in the SHW. Remember, this is not a competitive SHW, this is a random guy who hasn’t gone to the gym much and is (again from how I interpreted the OP) looking to lose weight and get a bit more healthy as well as begin competing in powerlifting.[/quote]

220? So you thought the guy should lose nearly half of his bodyweight (200 pounds+ since we thought he was still 400-450 at this time) to be competitive at PL’ing? I’m confused here.

I obviously know an untrained 380 pounder is not a competitive SHW, but he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.
[/quote]
Ultimately it will come down to the man’s personal goals

26

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I was saying he should go down if he is looking to lose weight which is what I took from the OP’s post. It was one way to handle the psychological aspects of losing large amounts of weight. If he’s only going 400/300/500 (which chances are he’s not even doing that) then he’s going to be more competitive with those theoretical numbers in the 220/242 range then he is in the SHW. Remember, this is not a competitive SHW, this is a random guy who hasn’t gone to the gym much and is (again from how I interpreted the OP) looking to lose weight and get a bit more healthy as well as begin competing in powerlifting.[/quote]

220? So you thought the guy should lose nearly half of his bodyweight (200 pounds+ since we thought he was still 400-450 at this time) to be competitive at PL’ing? I’m confused here.

I obviously know an untrained 380 pounder is not a competitive SHW, but he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.
[/quote]

Obviously I’m talking extremely long term, also this is what I tell myself when I go to the 181’s is that I’m more competitive than I am in the 198’s. I’m pretty sure from the OP the guy’s main goal isn’t to be good at powerlifting, just that he wants to start as a way to keep him motivated to train. It appears to me (and again I may be misreading this completely) that his main goal is to lose weight. If that is the case, and if he see’s his numbers go down by dropping large amounts of weight he can convince himself the fat going away will long term down the road put him in a class that his numbers may eventually be competitive in. Again, I may be misreading the OP completely here but it looks as though the OP came to the PL forum because he is a PL and the guy is interested in starting it as a way to use it as intrinsic motivation to lose weight. I doubt he really cares what class he is in, or what his numbers are for the time being and just wants to get stronger and be in better shape. I used my own experience of convincing myself that dropping weight allows me to be more competitive as a way to get over the hump of my lifts sometimes stahlling out some.

27

OP where do you live in alberta

28

[quote]prodiboy wrote:
OP where do you live in alberta
[/quote]

Red Deer

29

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.
[/quote]

sorry but this is such a retarded comment. The guy is just exceptionally fat seriously WTF are you talking about. He is an untrained 5’8 and 380. Some of your comments seem to suggest this isn’t a big deal/ it’s not unhealthy/ THAT IT IS A SIGN HE HAS AN APTITUDE FOR POWERLIFTING!!!

30

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I was saying he should go down if he is looking to lose weight which is what I took from the OP’s post. It was one way to handle the psychological aspects of losing large amounts of weight. If he’s only going 400/300/500 (which chances are he’s not even doing that) then he’s going to be more competitive with those theoretical numbers in the 220/242 range then he is in the SHW. Remember, this is not a competitive SHW, this is a random guy who hasn’t gone to the gym much and is (again from how I interpreted the OP) looking to lose weight and get a bit more healthy as well as begin competing in powerlifting.[/quote]

220? So you thought the guy should lose nearly half of his bodyweight (200 pounds+ since we thought he was still 400-450 at this time) to be competitive at PL’ing? I’m confused here.

I obviously know an untrained 380 pounder is not a competitive SHW, but he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.
[/quote]

May I know how you know he has the build and frame to be competitive? Based off of what we know, it seems like we only know his height and weight and that his friend thinks he’s strong. Keep in mind that there are people extremely overweight with medium and even small frames.

Not saying he doesn’t, only that we don’t know. BTW, I’m not agreeing with Wrah one bit and think you bring good points against him.

31

[quote]cparker wrote:
Wanting to get into PL’ing is fine and all and he can still do that but his weight is a serious life threat at this point and needs to be his main priority.[/quote]

Exactly. We all love lifting and competition, but powerlifting means almost nothing compared to his health. Especially considering hes most likely not going to be breaking any all time records since hes just beginning, I would say do a great deal of volume in both lifting and running. Lower intensity, just get him used to the consistency of working out almost everyday. Then from there he can move on to more serious lifting. But priority number 1 really needs to be the man’s health, hes only 30 luckily so he can make the lifestyle change now and alter his lift completely by being in shape and healthy!

32

ahahahahaha

33

[quote]apocolypse wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.
[/quote]

sorry but this is such a retarded comment. The guy is just exceptionally fat seriously WTF are you talking about. He is an untrained 5’8 and 380. Some of your comments seem to suggest this isn’t a big deal/ it’s not unhealthy/ THAT IT IS A SIGN HE HAS AN APTITUDE FOR POWERLIFTING!!![/quote]

Do you know the fucking definition of “frame”?

You seem to be a bit slow, so let me help you with that. Keep in mind I am typing this post S-L-O-W-L-Y so you can keep up.

frame
â?? â??[freym] Show IPA noun, verb, framed, fram·ing.
noun
1.
a border or case for enclosing a picture, mirror, etc.
2.
a rigid structure formed of relatively slender pieces, joined so as to surround sizable empty spaces or nonstructural panels, and generally used as a major support in building or engineering works, machinery, furniture, etc.
3.
a body, especially a human body, with reference to its size or build; physique: He has a large frame.

Now definition #3 is the one that is applicable here. Have you ever seen a 380 person that is actually small? I’m not saying he has muscle under neath there, idiot, just like I wouldn’t say an A-Frame house has a ton of insulation. But you know what you can do with that A-FRAME house? PUT SOME INSULATION IN IT!!! It is much easier to get a huge guy strong and big than it is to get a skinny fuck like yourself strong and big.

What part of my post actually confused you so much that you wasted your time responding to it?

34

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Keep in mind that there are people extremely overweight with medium and even small frames.

[/quote]

No, there’s not. By definition. You don’t get to be that heavy without some sort of frame.

I don’t understand how that is confusing a small handful of you.

35

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Keep in mind that there are people extremely overweight with medium and even small frames.

[/quote]

No, there’s not. By definition. You don’t get to be that heavy without some sort of frame.

I don’t understand how that is confusing a small handful of you.[/quote]

Frame refers to the bones and joints and those types of things. Not muscle and fat. You can put a lot of fat and/or a lot muscle onto a small frame. A sedentary person wolfing down 10,000 calories worth of twinkies a day will be huge and fat regardless of whether they have a large or small frame. And there are plenty of people way too fat for their frame. It shouldn’t be confusing.

36

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]apocolypse wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
he has the build and frame to be so if he actually starts training.
[/quote]

sorry but this is such a retarded comment. The guy is just exceptionally fat seriously WTF are you talking about. He is an untrained 5’8 and 380. Some of your comments seem to suggest this isn’t a big deal/ it’s not unhealthy/ THAT IT IS A SIGN HE HAS AN APTITUDE FOR POWERLIFTING!!![/quote]

Do you know the fucking definition of “frame”?

You seem to be a bit slow, so let me help you with that. Keep in mind I am typing this post S-L-O-W-L-Y so you can keep up.

frame
â?? â??[freym] Show IPA noun, verb, framed, fram�·ing.
noun
1.
a border or case for enclosing a picture, mirror, etc.
2.
a rigid structure formed of relatively slender pieces, joined so as to surround sizable empty spaces or nonstructural panels, and generally used as a major support in building or engineering works, machinery, furniture, etc.
3.
a body, especially a human body, with reference to its size or build; physique: He has a large frame.

Now definition #3 is the one that is applicable here. Have you ever seen a 380 person that is actually small? I’m not saying he has muscle under neath there, idiot, just like I wouldn’t say an A-Frame house has a ton of insulation. But you know what you can do with that A-FRAME house? PUT SOME INSULATION IN IT!!! It is much easier to get a huge guy strong and big than it is to get a skinny fuck like yourself strong and big.

What part of my post actually confused you so much that you wasted your time responding to it?

[/quote]

lol at this post and it’s idiotic analogy about houses and insulation. You are saying some guy who you have NEVER EVEN SEEN A PICTURE OF has a great frame and build for PL purely based on the fact that he is morbidly obese.

You are a complete retard.

37

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
It shouldn’t be confusing.[/quote]

It isn’t confusing.

He is talking completely out of his ass. To read the words ‘untrained 5’8 380lb’ and then make statements that he has a great frame to be a super heavyweight PL is so stupid it is not funny.

We do not have any pictures or even any idea whatsoever as to what his strength levels are like OR ANYTHING AT ALL other than he is exceptionally overweight.

38

more luls, lots and lots of luls

39

[quote]apocolypse wrote:
It isn’t confusing.

He is talking completely out of his ass. To read the words ‘untrained 5’8 380lb’ and then make statements that he has a great frame to be a super heavyweight PL is so stupid it is not funny.

We do not have any pictures or even any idea whatsoever as to what his strength levels are like OR ANYTHING AT ALL other than he is exceptionally overweight.[/quote]

You are wrong and here is why.

The body has a set point it reaches over time. At 30 years old, he likely has been carrying this weight around for quite a while. He can certainly attempt to lose weight, but how much? The 150 pounds that you are advocating, while nearly impossible in itself, is very unliekly to stick. Why? Homeostasis.

Ask any guy who was large (if you actually know any) about weight loss. They will tell you their bodyweight creeps back to where it was before. The result could be an improvement in body composition (more muscle less fat) but the fact remains that maintaining a lighter weight is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to do. Your body has gotten used to a certain weight and fights like hell to maintain it. This is why I have never found building muscle to be all that challenging, but dieting is. I have dropped down from 275-280 to about 250-260 no less than 3 times and each time I have gained back up to the 275 range. This has resulted in a drop in bodyfat of about 12% but the fact still remains that this is where my body’s set point lies.

Perhaps I may have misused the word “frame” (which I am going to point out you cherry picked out of mid-sentence amid about 30 other points I was making to various posters and chose to attack–they call that “taking things out of context” in the logical fallacy world). Maybe “potential” or “build” or “internal body processes” would have been more apt, but the end result is the same–a naturally big boy will make a naturally big (and strong) powerlifter with proper training. There is a reason the coaches in high school football (which Im sure you watched from the stands once or twice) picked the biggest guys to be the offensive linemen instead of trying to diet them down and make them into running backs and safeties. THEY HAD THE BUILD TO BE LINEMEN!!! Why is that not controversial but suddenly it becomes so when we are discussing a powerlifteR?

There was a time when one could logically expect that a question in the powerlifting forum, stating that a person was interested in powerlifting, would actually garner answers related to making them a better POWERLIFTER (other posters than yourself actually did this, though I found a couple of their comments misguided).

So it made me wonder why your advice centered on trying to turn the guy into a running back/swimsuit model. Surely it must be me who misread the OP or wandered into the Bodybuilding or V-Diet forums, and I misunderstood the question. So I went back and retraced the OP’s question, surely expecting to find something about losing weight, or injuries preventing him from squatting heavy, or health issues, or something. Here is the result of my analysis:

[quote]Re.po wrote:
So, I have a buddy who told me that he would like to start lifting and was interested in power lifting. Having only been lifting for a short while I feel very unqualified to advise him on how to start.[/quote]

Nope not there. How about the second paragraph?

[quote]

He is quite large, I would guess 400 to 450lbs, 5’8 and 30 years old. For being a guy that doesn’t train he is relatively strong, which I guess happens from moving such a large body around. His starting point is very different than what mine was. My problem was being weak his is obviously being heavy and possibly being weak. [/quote]

Let’s see, we have that the guy is “quite strong”…nothing about health issues or wanting to look like a fitness model…Surely it is in the last paragraph???

[quote]

What I’m wondering is what advice would you give? Thanks.[/quote]

WHAT!!! Not there either??? Holy shit. Then it makes me actually wonder how you came to this conclusion that the guy didn’t have the mobility to squat (which is extra hilarious since you make this silly assumption without knowing anything about the OP, yet blast me for doing it as well) and was basically a heart attack waiting to happen (which the OP countered that the guy is actually in perfect health as verified by an actual medical doctor, not some anonymous, photoless, training logless, health expert on T-Nation). Are you projecting your own insecurities out there? Should he be adhering to YOUR goals so YOU feel better about it???

The question was asked IN THE POWERLIFTING FORUM (scroll up, you will see that I’m not lying) about a guy WHO WAS INTERESTED IN POWERLIFTING. He is not going to be more competitive at the 308 or below classes, because those are actually more competitive than the SHW’s…

My only question to you APOCALYPSE: Do you even lift?

40

VT, you are using the argument of homeostasis, have you thought at all what is internally going on in this mans body to maintain homeostasis?

His body is enduring a constant fight to maintain homeostasis at that kind of weight, the best thing for him as powerlifter and more importantly as a human, is to lose weight.

It will help him in all of his life challenges.