Adding Cardio After Weights Workout

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Professor X wrote:
NZ RABBIT wrote:
Professor X wrote:
NZ RABBIT wrote:
if you have to bring up lagging legs X, would you not agree that a push/pull/legs or simply an upper/lower split would have to be the only way to go unless you further want to imbalance?

You need an upper lower split just to prioritize legs? Really? There is no way to train legs twice a week without doing an “upper lower split”?

Fully agree that you can increase the frequency of the ‘legs’ days however I assume you would still have a chest day, shoulders day, arms day, back day etc?!

If you then counted the number of sets for the upper body compared to the lower, there would be massively more for the upper (and thus further increasing the imbalance).

Unless of course you only intend to train for 20-30 mins on each upper day?

Are you serious with this? You thought we needed to train legs an equal amount of times in a week that we train every muscle of the upper body? WTF?

I train my legs on average once a week. They measure over 30". How about yours?

Yeah, I seriously doubt how heavy you are training if you are truly doing heavy squats multiple times a week. My guess is your overall progress is way less than those who don’t think in such a small box.[/quote]

Yeah my wheels (well quads to be specific) are stubborn as fuck but basically every muscle in my upper body grows like a weed.

I may be an exception to the rule but I genuinely think I would look ridiculous if I went on a 4 or 5 day split atm.

Eventually I realise it will be possible but I need a lot more mass in the quads first.

Do you not agree that there are stubborn muscles to growing and others that grow much more easily?

62

I train five days a week. Legs twice a week, and alternate chest/shoulders/tris and back/bis twice per week one week, once per week the next.

Ive done five day splits. It never worked for me. I started training this way about two years ago and have made more progress in two years that I ever did working waiting seven days to train a muscle again.

If I do a ‘chest day’, after 8 or so sets of chest, I’m fried. Why keep going? My shoulders are half in the can, so move to them to finish them off. Same with tris. If I do a SEPARATE shoulder and again a tricep day, they NEVER recover, and my chest workout is shit.

Bottom line, what works for you Professor X, may NOT work for everyone. Glad you found YOUR perfect split. Glad to hear your legs respond well to once a week training. But last I checked, there are dozens of authors/trainers on here, and dozens of alternate sources. All with varying opinions. To say YOUR way is BEST FOR EVERYONE, is just ignorant.

Find what works for you, and more importantly, find a way to train that you ENJOY.

63

[quote]Ironliftr3 wrote:
I train five days a week. Legs twice a week, and alternate chest/shoulders/tris and back/bis twice per week one week, once per week the next.

Ive done five day splits. It never worked for me. I started training this way about two years ago and have made more progress in two years that I ever did working waiting seven days to train a muscle again.

If I do a ‘chest day’, after 8 or so sets of chest, I’m fried. Why keep going? My shoulders are half in the can, so move to them to finish them off. Same with tris. If I do a SEPARATE shoulder and again a tricep day, they NEVER recover, and my chest workout is shit.

Bottom line, what works for you Professor X, may NOT work for everyone. Glad you found YOUR perfect split. Glad to hear your legs respond well to once a week training. But last I checked, there are dozens of authors/trainers on here, and dozens of alternate sources. All with varying opinions. To say YOUR way is BEST FOR EVERYONE, is just ignorant.

Find what works for you, and more importantly, find a way to train that you ENJOY.

[/quote]

Where did I write that my way is best for everyone? You missed me saying in this thread and several others all going at the same time that you need to find what works best for you?

No, you didn’t miss it. You didn’t even read it. You simply jumped to some dumbass conclusion after half assed reading bits and pieces.

Thanks for your half assed opinion.

64

You see, Ironliftr3, this is from the bottom of the very first page:

[quote]
Your strength levels and how you feel at the end of the workout are what will determine what you do. If what you are doing is still working for you, keep it up.[/quote]

This sounds like, “[quote]YOUR way is BEST FOR EVERYONE[/quote]”?

Most of the people I am speaking to are not that big. They are either beginners or people who have been training for a while without reaching any extreme level.

No one who has been at this for several years believes any ONE way works for ALL people. So tell me, why the fuck is TBT prescribed for every fucking newbie?

Maybe you should spend some time actually understanding your opponents point of view…as it is pretty damn clear you don’t know mine.

EDIT:

Oh, and before I forget, if you are using ANY routine and making absolutely no progress like you claimed, blame yourself. The basics of getting results on ANYTHING is still based on food intake and intensity of training. Anyone claiming all gains came to a complete halt simply because they trained muscles on a certain day brings up nothing but skepticism.

65

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
Yeah my wheels (well quads to be specific) are stubborn as fuck.[/quote]

How much can you squat for 5-6 reps?

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
But basically every muscle in my upper body grows like a weed.[/quote]

Cool. How is it growing like a weed? Are your shoulders/chest/biceps covered in stretch marks? How much are you lifting on upper body lifts?

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
I may be an exception to the rule but I genuinely think I would look ridiculous if I went on a 4 or 5 day split atm.[/quote]

Lets see some pics to see if you truly would look ‘ridiculous’.

It’s posts like this, i.e - people using completely biased/unproven opinions to prove their point, that put threads down the shitter, and why I’m thankful for T-Cell Alpha.

66

[quote]Ironliftr3 wrote:

If I do a ‘chest day’, after 8 or so sets of chest, I’m fried. Why keep going? My shoulders are half in the can, so move to them to finish them off. Same with tris. If I do a SEPARATE shoulder and again a tricep day, they NEVER recover, and my chest workout is shit.

[/quote]

Perhaps you should experiment with different chest exercises and perfect your technique so you put more stress on your chest and less on your shoulders.

Up until recently, I had poor chest development (relative to my shoulders and triceps) and at the end of my chest workouts my shoulders seemed to be just as fatigued, with little or the same sort of pump in my chest.

After I spent more time with lighter weights on bench press etc. working on technique and trying to get that ripping/tearing feeling in my chest on each rep (Doing more dumbbell bench press helped with this also) - I saw a lot more progress on my chest developement.

My bench press also increased by 45lbs in 2 months after it had been stuck for ages.

So what I’m saying here is, just because YOU have problems with a split (probably due to shitty mind-muscle connection/technique), doesn’t mean everyone else will either.

This is why listening and watching what the IFBB Pro’s do (constantly talk about feeling the muscle / don’t lockout their pressing movements etc.) is much better time spent than reading what these internet ‘coaches’ say.

67

Getting back on topic, perhaps a T-Nation moderator could consider a ‘cardio roundtable’ redux? Clearly ideas and opinions are evolving all the time on this topic.

68

If you want to loose fat,it always came down to the caloric deficit.
Achieve it by more work performed or less energy consumed.
For GE1 (general endurance) which means extensive intervall session your sessions are indeed quite short.
but it depends on your goals.
intensive intervall short and 4mmol/l
extensive intervall long and 2mmol/l

And also keep in mind that with lower intensity cardio you don´t burn fat.
you train the fat metabolismus but you don´t burn fat.

For a health purpose and general fitness the 15 minutes (with add up to 45minutes per week in your case)its ok
The minumum guidline is 10 minutes 3-5x per week with a puls of:puls in relaxation+(max.puls-puls in relaxation)x0,5
thats the minimum.
english is not my mother language but i think you get the idea.
further more the push und pull split is ok.
even if the “general” weight on the press suffers cause of a heavy bench:you still train “hard” for yaour state of fatigue.
thats somethging not many people realize:
if you do a split and on chest day with 3 bench exercise,your last and second one will also suffer from the first.thtas the same “shit”.but nobody argues here.
So your 1rpm cause of fatigue gets lower in the session.
but you still train in your target ranges with the same %of 1rpm but only calculated by the “fatigue rpm”.
the effect stays the same.
Its like you train and have a bad day were your 1rpm is down a bit.
Its nothing else-fatigue.
go ahead its good stuff.
sss

69

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Ironliftr3 wrote:

If I do a ‘chest day’, after 8 or so sets of chest, I’m fried. Why keep going? My shoulders are half in the can, so move to them to finish them off. Same with tris. If I do a SEPARATE shoulder and again a tricep day, they NEVER recover, and my chest workout is shit.

Perhaps you should experiment with different chest exercises and perfect your technique so you put more stress on your chest and less on your shoulders.

Up until recently, I had poor chest development (relative to my shoulders and triceps) and at the end of my chest workouts my shoulders seemed to be just as fatigued, with little or the same sort of pump in my chest.

After I spent more time with lighter weights on bench press etc. working on technique and trying to get that ripping/tearing feeling in my chest on each rep (Doing more dumbbell bench press helped with this also) - I saw a lot more progress on my chest developement.

My bench press also increased by 45lbs in 2 months after it had been stuck for ages.

So what I’m saying here is, just because YOU have problems with a split (probably due to shitty mind-muscle connection/technique), doesn’t mean everyone else will either.

This is why listening and watching what the IFBB Pro’s do (constantly talk about feeling the muscle / don’t lockout their pressing movements etc.) is much better time spent than reading what these internet ‘coaches’ say.
[/quote]

I have to agree. Short of doing high incline presses (which I only do for shoulders anyway), my shoulders don’t feel fatigued at all after training chest and even if they did, logical action is to then space out your next shoulder day in your schedule so that area has enough time to rest.

As far as his shoulder issues, this points to a problem feeling target muscles groups working and possibly in his technique. People who have that problem should try more decline movements and avoid a lot of direct upper chest training unless it is lagging.

70

420×315 15.6 KB

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
NZ RABBIT wrote:
Yeah my wheels (well quads to be specific) are stubborn as fuck.

How much can you squat for 5-6 reps?

NZ RABBIT wrote:
But basically every muscle in my upper body grows like a weed.

Cool. How is it growing like a weed? Are your shoulders/chest/biceps covered in stretch marks? How much are you lifting on upper body lifts?

NZ RABBIT wrote:
I may be an exception to the rule but I genuinely think I would look ridiculous if I went on a 4 or 5 day split atm.

Lets see some pics to see if you truly would look ‘ridiculous’.

It’s posts like this, i.e - people using completely biased/unproven opinions to prove their point, that put threads down the shitter, and why I’m thankful for T-Cell Alpha.
[/quote]

Don’t squat anything less than 8 reps now. Six months of low repping has damaged the knees. Not that they grew specially when low repping anyway. Squat rock bottom approx 220 lbs for 10 sets every 10 days approx. Leg press day in between. Both with knee extensions as finishers for around 5 sets.

No my upper body doesn’t have stretch marks as I don’t train it. I do 3 leg workouts to one upper.

IMO T-Cell Alpha has gone to the dogs since muppets who haven’t improved enough themselves were allowed in.

71

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
NZ RABBIT wrote:
Yeah my wheels (well quads to be specific) are stubborn as fuck.

How much can you squat for 5-6 reps?

NZ RABBIT wrote:
But basically every muscle in my upper body grows like a weed.

Cool. How is it growing like a weed? Are your shoulders/chest/biceps covered in stretch marks? How much are you lifting on upper body lifts?

NZ RABBIT wrote:
I may be an exception to the rule but I genuinely think I would look ridiculous if I went on a 4 or 5 day split atm.

Lets see some pics to see if you truly would look ‘ridiculous’.

It’s posts like this, i.e - people using completely biased/unproven opinions to prove their point, that put threads down the shitter, and why I’m thankful for T-Cell Alpha.

Don’t squat anything less than 8 reps now. Six months of low repping has damaged the knees. Not that they grew specially when low repping anyway. Squat rock bottom approx 220 lbs for 10 sets every 10 days approx. Leg press day in between. Both with knee extensions as finishers for around 5 sets.

No my upper body doesn’t have stretch marks as I don’t train it. I do 3 leg workouts to one upper.

IMO T-Cell Alpha has gone to the dogs since muppets who haven’t improved enough themselves were allowed in.[/quote]

Your entire upper body is making little to no progress but you have the nerve to call out other people?

Most of the people who post in that forum now are making progress.

Why are you in the bodybuilding forum if you train this way and think this way?

72

Oh what the fuck.

If that is “growing like a weed” then excuse me while I go out into the back yard and shoot myself in the face with my shotgun.

What planet are you on?

73

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Oh what the fuck.

If that is “growing like a weed” then excuse me while I go out into the back yard and shoot myself in the face with my shotgun.

What planet are you on?

[/quote]

…which is why when these jokers claim something works “better than anything else they tried” or how they made “drastic progress using TBT”, it is best to simply ask for pictures. Apparently “growing like a weed” now means “gee, I think I can actually see a muscle there!!”.

74

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

No my upper body doesn’t have stretch marks as I don’t train it. I do 3 leg workouts to one upper.
.[/quote]

Why wouldn’t you train upper body?

75

[quote]optheta wrote:
NZ RABBIT wrote:

No my upper body doesn’t have stretch marks as I don’t train it. I do 3 leg workouts to one upper.
.

Why wouldn’t you train upper body?[/quote]

Can’t you see!!!

Weeds, man! This mutherfucker is growing like fucking WEEEEEEEEEEDS!!!

76

Hey I never said I was hyuuuuuge or anything to that extent. Just that my upper grows faster than my lower and that a multi-day split may not be the optimal route for me to take at this point.

I train upper less frequently as I want my recovery resources to go towards my wheels (again at this point of my development).

I didn’t ‘call anyone out’ in alpha. Merely stated my opinion that the quality of the information in it has deteriorated since people who haven’t made decent progress (like myself) were allowed to voice there opinion there.

77

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

I didn’t ‘call anyone out’ in alpha. Merely stated my opinion that the quality of the information in it has deteriorated since people who haven’t made decent progress (like myself) were allowed to voice there opinion there.[/quote]

that makes absolutely no fucken sense at all…

78

I wish my upper body grew so fast that I had to train it less often.

Ha.

79

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

I didn’t ‘call anyone out’ in alpha. Merely stated my opinion that the quality of the information in it has deteriorated since people who haven’t made decent progress (like myself) were allowed to voice there opinion there.[/quote]

I love this. Calls out the new members of the T-Cell, denies it then does it again in the same post.

80

[quote]czar14 wrote:
NZ RABBIT wrote:

I didn’t ‘call anyone out’ in alpha. Merely stated my opinion that the quality of the information in it has deteriorated since people who haven’t made decent progress (like myself) were allowed to voice there opinion there.

I love this. Calls out the new members of the T-Cell, denies it then does it again in the same post.
[/quote]

Well I really disagree that the quality of the info in T-Cell has deteriorated in the slightest. Even though I can’t post there, I love reading all the threads like the roundtables that MODOK created. If everybody was allowed to post in T-Cell then it would probably be another version of this Bodybuilding forum, with trolls and idiots running rampant and asking stupid ass questions.

I thank GOD that it’s not like that as alot of the threads over in T-Cell are created by people who have more than half a brain, and have the experience and the muscle to back it up!