i know this a very contraversial topic among trainers, but just wondering peoples views on direct ab work. im with a pcip coach and of course the poliquin lads prefer to leave it to the squats and deads etc… just wondering peoples opinions!
Abs, (Rectus abdominus and obliques) have a primary function in resisting extension as well as resisting rotation. so we should train them as such.
Any other type of training will alter their neurological function and start to train movement patterns that are not healthy for proper function.
Because abdominals are preferential to holding isometrically, they also respond best when exposed to this type of training.
in reality, when you give people exercises like this for direct core work (anti-rotation and anti-extension training) only 6 weeks is necessary until they have a solid foundation. after this, yes, squats and deadlifts and pullups etc… will be enough to maintain them and get them stronger.
coach joey, think you could give some examples of those kinds of excercises?
thanks
Ab wheel rollouts shown here:
can be progressed with a band
Eccentric cable ab bracing:
pallov presses
Cable kneeling Chop
Speaking purely from an aesthetics view, my abs pop out with very little work - squats work great for them. I guess it depends on genetics, some bodybuilders don’t need to do direct work to make them “pop out”. I’ve never trained them directly for this reason, and still they show even when well over 12% bf (according to callipers).
Not saying that everyone should do the same. If balance is not to be neglected, I wouldn’t recommend neglecting direct Ab training (especially if you want to optimise ab development).
I do believe exactly what Coach Joey said about isometric holding being best for “growth” of the abs. This is a good way of adding as much resistance as possible (without just trying to “overcompensate” with excessive rep range).
[quote]
I do believe exactly what Coach Joey said about isometric holding being best for “growth” of the abs. This is a good way of adding as much resistance as possible (without just trying to “overcompensate” with excessive rep range).[/quote]
I definitely agree with this. I’ve seen so many people doing 50 reps of crunches to work their abs and that just doesn’t make sense to me. I train them directly probably once a week and I typically use bands or difficult BW exercises such as dragon flags. I also will use heavy weights and train them similar to regular muscle groups with 12-15 reps.
I say a few sets of ab wheel form standing 2-3X/ week is all the direct ab work you need- the key is to work up to this movement from a standing position.
Yea - it’s funny how bodybuilders down thru the ages have done crunches, bicycles, leg raises and the like yet manage to sport incredible ab development. Meaning they’re doing what would be considered “other type of training” that alters their neurological function and starts to train movement patterns that are not healthy.
Not saying that any of the movements posted don’t work, but again, it’s funny how so many have had so much success with supposedly injurous and sub-par movements. But bodybuilders aren’t functional anyway, right? ; )
not saying that crunches don’t work for hypertrophy at all. they will work but at the cost of what?
if you are training your abs to shorten in order to bring your spine into flexion, you start to build a motor pattern that teaches your abs to engage JUST for that! when in reality how often do we do a crunch in real life? the truth is your abs are designed to help stabilize your pelvis from a standing position and when challenged in this fashion they will grow more optimally.
The other thing to look at from a safety standpoint is that in numerous studies they have shown that spinal discs rupture around 3000-3500 ft/lbs of torque. In his book “low back disorders” stuart mcgill discusses how a single crunch puts approx 3000-3500 ft/lbs of torque on each individual spinal disc.
so then again, from a safety standpoint, you may not herniate a disc now, but the longer you put those kinds of stresses on your body, eventually, something has got to give. so think about that as well…
[quote]Fandango wrote:
[quote]
I do believe exactly what Coach Joey said about isometric holding being best for “growth” of the abs. This is a good way of adding as much resistance as possible (without just trying to “overcompensate” with excessive rep range).[/quote]
I definitely agree with this. I’ve seen so many people doing 50 reps of crunches to work their abs and that just doesn’t make sense to me. I train them directly probably once a week and I typically use bands or difficult BW exercises such as dragon flags. I also will use heavy weights and train them similar to regular muscle groups with 12-15 reps.[/quote]
Ironically, in the days where I experimented and tried “direct work” for abs (using crunches with high reps like 30+) it actually made my abs smaller! Don’t ask me why this happened lol. As soon as I dropped the high rep crunches, the abs popped out more (as long as the compound lifts were heavy of course).
So in the future, if I do decide to target them again (e.g. when into the single digits bf), then I would do something along the lines of what Coach Joey is saying.
Wow I m shocked… I am trying to get my abs bigger (and every other muscle) so the only exercise I should do are aab rollouts ? I don’t squat or deadlift (tall, they are akward I am 6’4"
[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Wow I m shocked… I am trying to get my abs bigger (and every other muscle) so the only exercise I should do are aab rollouts ? I don’t squat or deadlift (tall, they are akward I am 6’4"[/quote]
You probably would benefit from doing some additional direct ab work.
[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Wow I m shocked… I am trying to get my abs bigger (and every other muscle) so the only exercise I should do are aab rollouts ? I don’t squat or deadlift (tall, they are akward I am 6’4"[/quote]
If I may direct you to this article, just came out today: