A Treatise On Human Muscle

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

And seriously, your random bits of “wisdom” about how T Nation/the supplement industry/whateverfuckingelse are full of shit are getting old. Oh wait, there’s marketing involved in moving products? Thank you for your deep, deep insight into the workings of reality.
[/quote]

Level 4 crying about a supplement callout?
Shocking.

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Not to mention, you don’t lend a whole lot of credibility to your statements when you try to come off as thoroughly educated and jaded by all the great knowledge you’ve attained in posts like the above and then start other threads discussing how you throw down PH’s/stims/recs seemingly at random. It looks like shit when you try to come off like you’ve figured everything out in some posts, then clearly acknowledge that you still don’t have your shit together in others. A little consistency might be nice.
[/quote]

Hey bro, I might be fucked up and a PED abuser, but at least I’m realistic.
If you stopped spending all your money on Indigo, Finibars, Metabolic Drive et al and started pinning, you could actually look like a bodybuilder!

Godamn, I hope this post doesn’t get me banned.
It seems like around here, the strongest insults are a-ok, but any discreditation on Biotest supplements is worth a warning or a suspension.
[/quote]

Shouldn’t get you banned. And you missed the main point of my post and focused on a minor one. I find HOW you say things to be more out of line than what you say. If you don’t like a given company (Biotest or any other), you don’t like it and that’s fine. The holier-than-thou tone that you throw down is what annoys the shit out of me. You seem to feel the need to take things which are not particularly groundbreaking or inflammatory and a) deliver them at times when they don’t really need to be said and b) infuse them with a huge amount of arrogance.

And yeah, I could get bigger and leaner if I started pinning. No shock there, but that’s not how I choose to do things right now.

102

[quote]truetomuscle wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]truetomuscle wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different.[/quote]

We are all the same and obey to all the exact same biological principles.[/quote]

We aren’t all the same. Most here likely won’t have the genetics to build arms bigger than 18" without drugs. How could that be if we all worked exactly the same?[/quote]

‘Building 18" arms’ is as relevant to biology as ‘people of different height obey different laws of physics’

You do arm exercises, get stronger on them, eat right, and your arms fucking grow. Period.
I don’t give a shit about genetics or how big you can become, the process and biological processes are the exact same.

and lmfao @ most people not being able to build 18" naturally. Where you come up with these ridiculous arbitrary numbers and try to pass them off as remotely relevant discussion is beyond me.
[/quote]

Genetics drive how those processes function and to what degree of efficacy. To ignore this is just plain foolish.

But hey, please keep typing so everyone else here can see how retarded your posts are.[/quote]

His post isn’t retarded it is part of the discussion.[/quote]

Still waiting on you to find us ONE person who is really huge but weak. Get on it.

[/quote]

Do you want names or something? How do I find this person and force you to think he is real. You automatically dismiss everything I say, so I can give you names, though you will still not change your mind. If you already made up your mind, is me giving you examples going to make you retract your statement? Its fruitless do it, and as the saying goes, “a good tree produces good fruit”.
[/quote]

Names, training videos, pics, maybe studies… you know, anything with a little more weight than unsubstantiated statements would be ideal.

The burden of proof is kind of on you here man- I don’t think it would be too hard for anyone to pull up some kind of evidence of a huge dudes who CAN move large amounts of weight.

I think this whole pissing match comes down to a distinction between “can’t” and “don’t.” A large individual didn’t get that way overnight. Although he might not train heavy at a given time while still maintaining his size, that doesn’t mean he didn’t ever train heavy. It also doesn’t mean that he couldn’t get back to training heavy if he cut out isolation work and an MMC focus and went back to training with an emphasis on strength/power.

Maybe Poliquin could come into the gym and lift heavier weight with stricter form than guys who are bigger and haven’t trained heavy in years and have instead been focusing on how to get the best feel out of their lifts. If you train your body to feel the hell out of every inch of a given exercise’s ROM, of course it’s going to be difficult for you to suddenly jump into just moving the weight from A to B with quality form.

Your point just doesn’t stick even with your Poliquin reference because you refuse to account for the effects of accustoming the body to a certain type of lifting through specialization. And it’s why you’re being pressed for more reasonable proof to substantiate your claims.

103

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]truetomuscle wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]truetomuscle wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different.[/quote]

We are all the same and obey to all the exact same biological principles.[/quote]

We aren’t all the same. Most here likely won’t have the genetics to build arms bigger than 18" without drugs. How could that be if we all worked exactly the same?[/quote]

‘Building 18" arms’ is as relevant to biology as ‘people of different height obey different laws of physics’

You do arm exercises, get stronger on them, eat right, and your arms fucking grow. Period.
I don’t give a shit about genetics or how big you can become, the process and biological processes are the exact same.

and lmfao @ most people not being able to build 18" naturally. Where you come up with these ridiculous arbitrary numbers and try to pass them off as remotely relevant discussion is beyond me.
[/quote]

Genetics drive how those processes function and to what degree of efficacy. To ignore this is just plain foolish.

But hey, please keep typing so everyone else here can see how retarded your posts are.[/quote]

His post isn’t retarded it is part of the discussion.[/quote]

Still waiting on you to find us ONE person who is really huge but weak. Get on it.

[/quote]

Do you want names or something? How do I find this person and force you to think he is real. You automatically dismiss everything I say, so I can give you names, though you will still not change your mind. If you already made up your mind, is me giving you examples going to make you retract your statement? Its fruitless do it, and as the saying goes, “a good tree produces good fruit”.
[/quote]

Names, training videos, pics, maybe studies… you know, anything with a little more weight than unsubstantiated statements would be ideal.

The burden of proof is kind of on you here man- I don’t think it would be too hard for anyone to pull up some kind of evidence of a huge dudes who CAN move large amounts of weight.

I think this whole pissing match comes down to a distinction between “can’t” and “don’t.” A large individual didn’t get that way overnight. Although he might not train heavy at a given time while still maintaining his size, that doesn’t mean he didn’t ever train heavy. It also doesn’t mean that he couldn’t get back to training heavy if he cut out isolation work and an MMC focus and went back to training with an emphasis on strength/power.

Maybe Poliquin could come into the gym and lift heavier weight with stricter form than guys who are bigger and haven’t trained heavy in years and have instead been focusing on how to get the best feel out of their lifts. If you train your body to feel the hell out of every inch of a given exercise’s ROM, of course it’s going to be difficult for you to suddenly jump into just moving the weight from A to B with quality form.

Your point just doesn’t stick even with your Poliquin reference because you refuse to account for the effects of accustoming the body to a certain type of lifting through specialization. And it’s why you’re being pressed for more reasonable proof to substantiate your claims. [/quote]

If someone tells you that the largest moon of jupiter is Ganymede, how do we know the claim is true? The answer is we refer to a source we find authoritative such as an astronomy magazine. my authority was poliquin. My point is that my claim can only hold water assuming the proof i give is accepted as “proof.” So the failure on my part was failing [so far] to find an authority i can quote who we agree on. I admit this.

104

^Nice summation Bigmac. Truetomuscle, did you take into account or know if these “big” guys are injured or rehabbing by chance? I know for a while when I was trying to rehab my pec I looked like I was “struggling” with 135 lbs on bench because I actually was. While my strength came back and I healed, and thus the pain subsided I went back to the 100 lb DB presses, 225’s 250’s 275’s and 315’s on barbell presses. By my standards and my perception, I’m not a large guy, I’m a low (I don’t think single digit) body fat 220 and over 6 ft tall, but to someone that saw me having trouble with 135 and didn’t know what I was doing or that I was hurt, could’ve perceived me as one of those large muscled weak guys when I’m actually not.

105

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.
[/quote]
? What does then?

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
Doesn’t make sense …

106

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Genetics drive how those processes function and to what degree of efficacy. To ignore this is just plain foolish.[/quote]

Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.

You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
I’m confused, so are we all the exact same or are we genetically different? Are we clones of one another? Would being a clone makes us the same or are we different clones?

107

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
What the hell happened to this thread in a few short hours. Love it though[/quote]

More than what appears.

A few lulzy posts were deleted apparently. [/quote]

Really?

What posts were deleted?[/quote]

I made a comment explaining that OP wasnt getting picked on because people didnt like him, but that he was getting called out for saying questionable stuff. Among other things along those lines. That was delted. His reply that was mostly irrelevant to the topic, including whether I believe in God and how people define themselves through T-Nation, was delted. My reply to that, raising the point that such a bizarre post containing such observations were strange coming from a person who joined within the past few days was indicative of a troll, was deleted.

I dont really care. Just weird

108

[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Genetics drive how those processes function and to what degree of efficacy. To ignore this is just plain foolish.[/quote]

Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.

You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
I’m confused, so are we all the exact same or are we genetically different? Are we clones of one another? Would being a clone makes us the same or are we different clones?[/quote]

109

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
What the hell happened to this thread in a few short hours. Love it though[/quote]

More than what appears.

A few lulzy posts were deleted apparently. [/quote]

Really?

What posts were deleted?[/quote]

I made a comment explaining that OP wasnt getting picked on because people didnt like him, but that he was getting called out for saying questionable stuff. Among other things along those lines. That was delted. His reply that was mostly irrelevant to the topic, including whether I believe in God and how people define themselves through T-Nation, was delted. My reply to that, raising the point that such a bizarre post containing such observations were strange coming from a person who joined within the past few days was indicative of a troll, was deleted.

I dont really care. Just weird [/quote]

At this point, discussions initiated by the original poster are being removed because this is a know troll.

110

[quote]Mod Phoenix wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
What the hell happened to this thread in a few short hours. Love it though[/quote]

More than what appears.

A few lulzy posts were deleted apparently. [/quote]

Really?

What posts were deleted?[/quote]

I made a comment explaining that OP wasnt getting picked on because people didnt like him, but that he was getting called out for saying questionable stuff. Among other things along those lines. That was delted. His reply that was mostly irrelevant to the topic, including whether I believe in God and how people define themselves through T-Nation, was delted. My reply to that, raising the point that such a bizarre post containing such observations were strange coming from a person who joined within the past few days was indicative of a troll, was deleted.

I dont really care. Just weird [/quote]

At this point, discussions initiated by the original poster are being removed because this is a know troll.[/quote]

lol no surprise there. Thanks

111

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.
[/quote]
? What does then?
[/quote]

Basic human physiology.

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
Doesn’t make sense …[/quote]

Well then, I’m sorry you are this semantically challenged.

I actually spent the last 5 minutes trying to draw extreme and easily graspable examples, but decided that if you can’t grasp middle school level Biology, it’s a waste of time and I’m only bound to hear more snowflake meathead groupthink.

112

[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Genetics drive how those processes function and to what degree of efficacy. To ignore this is just plain foolish.[/quote]

Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.

You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
I’m confused, so are we all the exact same or are we genetically different? Are we clones of one another? Would being a clone makes us the same or are we different clones?[/quote]

Humans share over 99.9% of their genes with everyone else. You have 1 variation in every 1000 base pairs, compared to chimps’ 1 in every 500 base pairs.

In terms you can understand, officer snowflake: we have enough variation to distinguish us, but barring extreme anomaly or disease, we all obey to them there same laws!!!

What I’m surprised is how this is even being discussed and was the only thing people took notice of in my posts. This special snowflake mentality is ridiculous.

113

HUGE but weak?
found him

http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-06/manuel-uribe.jpg?w=300&h=300

114

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

Hey bro, I might be fucked up and a PED abuser, but at least I’m realistic.
If you stopped spending all your money on Indigo, Finibars, Metabolic Drive et al and started pinning, you could actually look like a bodybuilder!

[/quote]

Post a picture of yourself or pipe down.

Lets see the bodybuilder physique youre sporting from months of continuous AAS use.

115

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.
[/quote]
? What does then?
[/quote]

Basic human physiology.
[/quote]
Which is dictated by genetics

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
Doesn’t make sense …[/quote]

Well then, I’m sorry you are this semantically challenged.

I actually spent the last 5 minutes trying to draw extreme and easily graspable examples, but decided that if you can’t grasp middle school level Biology, it’s a waste of time and I’m only bound to hear more snowflake meathead groupthink.

[/quote]
LOL @ semantically challenged
LOL @ not grasping middle school level biology
LOL @ groupthink
The sad thing is, even though I laid it before you in bold, you couldn’t see your own contradiction.

116

[quote]Stan Darsh wrote:
HUGE but weak?
found him

http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-06/manuel-uribe.jpg?w=300&h=300[/quote]

Doesn’t count, he’s cutting. Obviously strength goes down during a cut :slight_smile:

117

lol… huge people who are weak.

im amazed some of the guys here fed this troll for 5 pages.

to the op: 5 pages of shit yet you fail to provide with one evidence of a human who is huge by muscular standards yet can be considered “weak”

verdict: you are a retard.

118

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Which is dictated by genetics
[/quote]

If by genetics you mean actual human makeup and not ‘bro my genetics are so different i have dat dere short bicep insertinos!!!’ sure.

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
Doesn’t make sense …[/quote]

Well then, I’m sorry you are this semantically challenged.

I actually spent the last 5 minutes trying to draw extreme and easily graspable examples, but decided that if you can’t grasp middle school level Biology, it’s a waste of time and I’m only bound to hear more snowflake meathead groupthink.

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[/quote]
LOL @ semantically challenged
LOL @ not grasping middle school level biology
LOL @ groupthink
The sad thing is, even though I laid it before you in bold, you couldn’t see your own contradiction.[/quote]

I don’t know what’s more insulting, the fact that you even vaguely think you’re ‘right’ and deserve to speak to me, or that you think I unknowingly made some cataclysmically self contradicting remarks, when it was a distinction clear as night and day to anyone other than a hick with the most hamfisted grasp of linguistics and biology.

119

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Genetics drive how those processes function and to what degree of efficacy. To ignore this is just plain foolish.[/quote]

Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.

You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]
I’m confused, so are we all the exact same or are we genetically different? Are we clones of one another? Would being a clone makes us the same or are we different clones?[/quote]

Humans share over 99.9% of their genes with everyone else. You have 1 variation in every 1000 base pairs, compared to chimps’ 1 in every 500 base pairs.

In terms you can understand, officer snowflake: we have enough variation to distinguish us, but barring extreme anomaly or disease, we all obey to them there same laws!!!

What I’m surprised is how this is even being discussed and was the only thing people took notice of in my posts. This special snowflake mentality is ridiculous.
[/quote]

God. First of all, the variance is 99.5% not 99.9%.

Second, we do vary tremendously. I am 5’6". Vince Urbank is (I think) 6’7". Think about the leverages. Do you think we’d respond differently to different lifts and different programs?

Next consider this. Look at this guy: http://maxcdn.fooyoh.com/files/attach/images/3004/794/003/004/estrogen-men.jpg Is his endocrine system different from mine and yours?

That’s just scratching the surface.

120

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
Genetics don’t ‘drive’ how any ‘processes function’.
[/quote]
? What does then?
[/quote]

Basic human physiology.
[/quote]

Your genetics are what determine your phenotype and genotype. Your specific chemical system is not exactly the same as everyone else’s. If this weren’t the case, then all humans would be capable of excelling at the exact same tasks and we would all suffer from the exact same diseases.

As it stands, some of us are even immune to things that would kill others…

I actually want you to keep typing. I knew you were an idiot from day one. I just want everyone else to see it.