[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
now that we got the brow beating down, is there a question to answer? [/quote]
discussions don’t have to have a definite answer they are food for thought
Some people are stronger than others. Some are more muscular than others.
The person that you can look to for the best possible clue on how to get bigger, carry less body fat, stronger…Is the person who fills out their training diary and nutrition diary.
Compare yourself against yourself and you can get closer to being more successful, no matter what goal.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Some people are stronger than others. Some are more muscular than others.
The person that you can look to for the best possible clue on how to get bigger, carry less body fat, stronger…Is the person who fills out their training diary and nutrition diary.
Compare yourself against yourself and you can get closer to being more successful, no matter what goal.
[/quote]
no good lifters have diaries anyway. Diaries are for women and people who want other people to think they are serious lifters. Gimme a break. I realize people are stronger what doesnt add up is how someone with large muscles is not necessarily what most would call strong. Everyone has seen this. Please don’t make me define large muscles.
[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:
guys that resemble Ronnie Coleman but lift like a normal high school sophomore? [/quote]
This person doesnt exist; has never exsited; and will never exist.
Substitute “ronnie coleman” for someone 25% smaller and that person STILL doesnt exist.
[/quote]
LMFAO yeah that was more for comedy, which was actually leading me to my next question of what he qualifies as large guys? To some people, anyone over 200 pounds is big, so it also makes this thread a matter of personal perception.[/quote]
Youre right, it is about perception.
The problem is that perception gets skewed tremendously depending on the ‘perceivers’ experience level. [/quote]
If you are over two hundred pounds at average height and single digit Bodyfat then I would say you are large.
[/quote]
Ok this makes a bit more a lean 200 with a 5’11" to 6’2" possibly 3" height (of course as one gets taller it can be harder to put on size and gives you more of a slender/tapered look) range should make a pretty big guy, I would get compliments on my size at this weight, but a “large” 200 doesn’t make a strong 200.[/quote]
A 5’6 lean two hundred would. A 6 or higher not so much.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Some people are stronger than others. Some are more muscular than others.
The person that you can look to for the best possible clue on how to get bigger, carry less body fat, stronger…Is the person who fills out their training diary and nutrition diary.
Compare yourself against yourself and you can get closer to being more successful, no matter what goal.
[/quote]
no good lifters have diaries anyway. Diaries are for women and people who want other people to think they are serious lifters. Gimme a break. I realize people are stronger what doesnt add up is how someone with large muscles is not necessarily what most would call strong. Everyone has seen this. Please don’t make me define large muscles. [/quote]
You are mistaken. I don’t know of anyone successful that doesn’t keep a training log. Log, diary, same-same.
morbidly obese people have very muscled thighs. Would you use their methods to get huge thighs and calves?
What are your goals? Is what you are doing getting you there?
Yes I know someone with really big arms that is pretty weak compared to what you would expect. I also know someone that can blow most people away in a barbell curl. Arms are mediocre.
Get over the how come some people are the way they are and why and work it out for what works for you.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Some people are stronger than others. Some are more muscular than others.
The person that you can look to for the best possible clue on how to get bigger, carry less body fat, stronger…Is the person who fills out their training diary and nutrition diary.
Compare yourself against yourself and you can get closer to being more successful, no matter what goal.
[/quote]
no good lifters have diaries anyway. Diaries are for women and people who want other people to think they are serious lifters. Gimme a break. I realize people are stronger what doesnt add up is how someone with large muscles is not necessarily what most would call strong. Everyone has seen this. Please don’t make me define large muscles. [/quote]
You are mistaken. I don’t know of anyone successful that doesn’t keep a training log. Log, diary, same-same.
morbidly obese people have very muscled thighs. Would you use their methods to get huge thighs and calves?
What are your goals? Is what you are doing getting you there?
Yes I know someone with really big arms that is pretty weak compared to what you would expect. I also know someone that can blow most people away in a barbell curl. Arms are mediocre.
Get over the how come some people are the way they are and why and work it out for what works for you.[/quote]
no i’m not. Just due to the fact that YOU don’t know of anyone does not make it true. You are not the empirical judge of all that is true. Does not professor x fail to keep a journal.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Some people are stronger than others. Some are more muscular than others.
The person that you can look to for the best possible clue on how to get bigger, carry less body fat, stronger…Is the person who fills out their training diary and nutrition diary.
Compare yourself against yourself and you can get closer to being more successful, no matter what goal.
[/quote]
no good lifters have diaries anyway. Diaries are for women and people who want other people to think they are serious lifters. Gimme a break. I realize people are stronger what doesnt add up is how someone with large muscles is not necessarily what most would call strong. Everyone has seen this. Please don’t make me define large muscles. [/quote]
You are mistaken. I don’t know of anyone successful that doesn’t keep a training log. Log, diary, same-same.
morbidly obese people have very muscled thighs. Would you use their methods to get huge thighs and calves?
What are your goals? Is what you are doing getting you there?
Yes I know someone with really big arms that is pretty weak compared to what you would expect. I also know someone that can blow most people away in a barbell curl. Arms are mediocre.
Get over the how come some people are the way they are and why and work it out for what works for you.[/quote]
I would say morbidly obese people have morbidly obese thighs and calves. I would say that if those people’s legs are as large as you say, and you didn’t care if you were that fat, and if your goal was to have those thighs exclusive to those people, then i would copy them.
We all know that crappy study supposedly on sumo wrestlers also was due to the fact that those athletes use their legs and train them in some fashion. We also know this is different than a very fat person who does not move an inch instead has an electrical wheelchair my tax money goes to though thats left to the politics forum.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
Why does everyone assume everyone who was ever great was always “genetically elite”. I say the genetically elite are the ones with a genetically elite attitude.[/quote]
The people in the NFL are almost certainly “gifted” athletes than combine that with a phenomenal work ethic. Seth Rogan, given all the time and resources in the world, will never be in the NFL.
We rely on extremes in our examples to illustrate points. It is often times difficult to see the difference between 6 and 7, but much easier to see the difference between 2 and 9.
It is YOU that has created this weight lifter who is really big but weak as hell… Talk about creating extreme examples.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
Why does everyone assume everyone who was ever great was always “genetically elite”. I say the genetically elite are the ones with a genetically elite attitude.[/quote]
The people in the NFL are almost certainly “gifted” athletes than combine that with a phenomenal work ethic. Seth Rogan, given all the time and resources in the world, will never be in the NFL.
We rely on extremes in our examples to illustrate points. It is often times difficult to see the difference between 6 and 7, but much easier to see the difference between 2 and 9.
It is YOU that has created this weight lifter who is really big but weak as hell… Talk about creating extreme examples.[/quote]
This idea is just what eugenicists want people to think in order to keep them mediocre. We are too quick to assume so many people are gifted in that way just due to the fact they achieved success. Simply put, you think the nfl causes people to have good genetics.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
Why does everyone assume everyone who was ever great was always “genetically elite”. I say the genetically elite are the ones with a genetically elite attitude.[/quote]
The people in the NFL are almost certainly “gifted” athletes than combine that with a phenomenal work ethic. Seth Rogan, given all the time and resources in the world, will never be in the NFL.
We rely on extremes in our examples to illustrate points. It is often times difficult to see the difference between 6 and 7, but much easier to see the difference between 2 and 9.
It is YOU that has created this weight lifter who is really big but weak as hell… Talk about creating extreme examples.[/quote]
Relying on extremes can only justfiy those extremes. You cannot hardly ever make a valid point doing that. If I relied on extremes, I could say there is a fifty fifty chance of me making the new york giants cut: Either I do or I don’t. See how silly it is to do this?
What the fuck is up with this ‘you are a special snowflake and you have to discover what works for you!’ on T-Nation these days?
The same things works for everyone.
‘Exotic techniques, find out what works for you, get a prowler, get the new muscle partitioning supplement, get on that new diet’, I swear, this board has become just like every single fucking fitness infomercial they lampooned in the past.
So, what you are saying is that if someone is big, that person should be as strong as he looks as well? Why? What does other people’s preferences regarding building size and strength have to do with you? And what does “as strong as he looks” mean anyway? It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different.
For example, I tend to focus on either strength or size at any given time (usually strength). After a mass building period I will be relatively weaker than before. So what? That’s exactly my goal. But after that my goal is to get stronger.
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different.[/quote]
We are all the same and obey to all the exact same biological principles.
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
So, what you are saying is that if someone is big, that person should be as strong as he looks as well? Why? What does other people’s preferences regarding building size and strength have to do with you? And what does “as strong as he looks” mean anyway? It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different. [/quote]
I’ve tried asking him that. He’ll only try to equivocate his way out.
Typically, when someone accuses a bodybuilder of being weak or insecure, they are more often than not trying to disguise their own self-doubt at seeing someone who looks better than they do.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
As my first post on T-Nation, I would like to extend my welcome to all. I am interested in a discussion on the truth concerning muscular hypertrophy. An issue raised is why do some of the largest, most awe-inspiring physiques possessed By people we do not consider to Be the strongest lifters…
now this topic has Been Beaten to death and the question always goes unresolved and afraid to Be discussed lest some of the veterans on this site crucify anyone who even poses this idea. Lets not kid ourselves though. Why is it that gyms are crawling with some very muscular people who are extremely weak for their cross-sectional musculature
is it just me or do tons of our large Brethren in muscle try to hide their weak Bodies under the mask of so-called “Body-Building” oriented goals
Why do so many large gym rats shy away from the main lifts and head straight for the smith machine, hs machine, and leg press
is it just me or do they do this due to the fact that deep down they are self-conscious of their surprisingly low numBers.
Again I want this to remain as civil as can Be so please discuss But keep it courteous[/quote]
Main lifts?? I have always considered the deadlift and squat a powerlifting movement, not a bodybuilding movement. I have known and continue to know many extremely big dudes, that have never squatted or deadlifted in their life. its simply not needed. those are part of the big 3 for powerlifting. Bodybuilders seem to always include them though. For a reason, i do not know of.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
Why does everyone assume everyone who was ever great was always “genetically elite”. I say the genetically elite are the ones with a genetically elite attitude.[/quote]
The people in the NFL are almost certainly “gifted” athletes than combine that with a phenomenal work ethic. Seth Rogan, given all the time and resources in the world, will never be in the NFL.
We rely on extremes in our examples to illustrate points. It is often times difficult to see the difference between 6 and 7, but much easier to see the difference between 2 and 9.
It is YOU that has created this weight lifter who is really big but weak as hell… Talk about creating extreme examples.[/quote]
Relying on extremes can only justfiy those extremes. You cannot hardly ever make a valid point doing that. If I relied on extremes, I could say there is a fifty fifty chance of me making the new york giants cut: Either I do or I don’t. See how silly it is to do this?
[/quote]
You just disqualified your own argument, doofus, since you are relying on the extreme example of “some huge guy who is super weak”. Most people with really big muscles are anything but weak.
Since you relied on extremes, that makes your argument “silly”…by your own rules.
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different.[/quote]
We are all the same and obey to all the exact same biological principles.[/quote]
We aren’t all the same. Most here likely won’t have the genetics to build arms bigger than 18" without drugs. How could that be if we all worked exactly the same?
Honestly, you haven’t posted one thing since you started posting here that added any value to a discussion.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Suspicious of what?
Maybe you should get suspicious of WHY it is that they appear to be “struggling” with 225.[/quote]
That is exactly what this forum is supposed to concern itself with. I am asking why. I am not sure why. I don’t want to get into a sarcoplasmic/myofibrillar functional argument but do you think Poliquin is on to something when he says hypertrophy is the body being lazy… [/quote]
While there may be really big guys that you might consider weak for their size. But I’ll tell you from what ive seen, most big guys are generally very strong dudes. Watch Ronnie coleman, Branch warren and even jay cutler, they are all very strong. You have to remember though, powerlifters and bodybuilders train differently. Powerlifters tend to train with a much higher % of their 1 rep max. While bodybuilders, tend to have a much longer TUT.
hey guys whatd i miss?
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
It’s impossible to say that someone should be relatively stronger, because we are all different.[/quote]
We are all the same and obey to all the exact same biological principles.[/quote]
I would like to take my first moment to laugh at the fact that a picture of David Boston fell into this thread after a previous, very brief discussion of Charles Poliquin (for those that may not know Boston trained with Poliquin) and secondly to say that the only category in which “we are all the same” is only in the sense that we are all human, aside from that there is great difference between one person to the next.