55 Yrs Old: 6-Oxo or Alpha Male?

I’m sure this has been brought up before, but here goes anyway. I am older 55 and looking for a t booster without or with little estrogen, or doesn’t it work that way?

I’ve done so much reading and still confused on which brand is best, and if this is a route to take. I’m looking for the libido as well! Which is the best way to go, and can I get some advice on how long a person can stay on this stuff?? I may be off in left field here, but I’m a real newbie here so go easy! I posted this in the Supplement area, go 100 views without a reply. Thanks for input.

Go with Alpha Male sold here. Many of us are big fans and use it regularly. I don’t think you would be disappointed.

D

Alpha Male is good stuff. I have used it several times and noticed benefits from it.

However, I have had as good of luck with an anti-estrogen such as Tamoxifen and it is much cheaper. Alpha Male is a bit easier to obtain.

You do need some estrogen, as there is a fine line of having too little.

Thanks for the replies. Ok on the Alpha Male. So you don’t think that the extra esrogen makes a difference? And do you have to cycle it? One last question and I’ll stop. Do I need at my age to also take DHEA? Thanks!

No man needs EXTRA estrogen. You get way too much in today’s processed foods as it is.

I have not been cycling the anti-estrogen and test boosting supplements. I use them every day.

I was cycling some now unavailable OTC prohormones and then used Tamoxifen for PCT. What I found was that after 4-6 weeks of using it for PCT, I felt stronger and was leaner than when using the PH. My libido has been better as well.

So I stopped doing the PHs and just keep my natural test levels high and blood tests showed it was working.

I take 100mg of DHEA daily. There is no evidence supplementation of it really works. The theory is good, so I subscribe to it.

[quote]sir_tris wrote:
I take 100mg of DHEA daily. There is no evidence supplementation of it really works. The theory is good, so I subscribe to it.

[/quote]

I would stick to 25mg taken twice daily. If you can get it in a transdermal form, even better, as it has a better rate of absorbtion. In fact, steroids, including DHEA, seem to aromatize into estrogen more so when taken orally, and less so when taken by other means.

Your over 40 right? If not, its probably likely your DHEA levels are fine. Either way, might be a good time to get a hormone panel ran. I would suggest here - rheinlabs.com Urinary assessments of hormones are a much better marker and more reliable than blood testing, as they give an accurate reading of whats going on all day, not an 8am blood draw that is just a snapshot.

[quote]jackdeath wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Ok on the Alpha Male. So you don’t think that the extra esrogen makes a difference? And do you have to cycle it? One last question and I’ll stop. Do I need at my age to also take DHEA? Thanks![/quote]

Yes you need DHEA

At 55 I would suggest getting full hormone panel ran. Then go from there

[quote]Contraband wrote:
sir_tris wrote:
I take 100mg of DHEA daily. There is no evidence supplementation of it really works. The theory is good, so I subscribe to it.

Your over 40 right? If not, its probably likely your DHEA levels are fine. Either way, might be a good time to get a hormone panel ran.
[/quote]

Yes, I am 51.

I hate doctors and needles. No need for hormonal panels, for me.

Yes, DHEA is converted into Estrogen and many other hormones. This is a reason I use Tamoxifen as it modulates the HPTA, seemingly keeping it in check.

I should probably clear a few things up. First off I was told that I have some bone degeneration in my back, so I assume I’ve got in everywhere. I was told by my doctor that I might have to much estrogen! My question is, do I take DHEA at my age, along with Alpha Male and have my estrogen level stay the same, as I need more strength and libido. Hope that clears things up some. Also I really don’t want to do the doctor test if I can help it, I see them enough!! Thanks

At age 65, as of a few days ago, I have th Alpha Male and am pleased with it. I also like the Like Plus Endocryn DHEA, and their Prostrate Formula.

And I feel good.

[quote]jackdeath wrote:
I should probably clear a few things up. First off I was told that I have some bone degeneration in my back, so I assume I’ve got in everywhere. I was told by my doctor that I might have to much estrogen! My question is, do I take DHEA at my age, along with Alpha Male and have my estrogen level stay the same, as I need more strength and libido. Hope that clears things up some. Also I really don’t want to do the doctor test if I can help it, I see them enough!! Thanks[/quote]

Do a google search on HPTA. If your doc thinks your estrogen levels are high, as they are in most adult males, especially if you consume a lot of processed foods, then do something about it.

Alpha Male has much more than test boosting. Your extra test will aromatize to estradiol if it is not in check. High levels of fat tissue will retain estradiol and when loosing weight, this can be released into the body. It’s a vicious cycle of balance of the sex hormones.

Do another google on estrogen aromatization and read up on it.

I would also look at the foods you eat and see if they too contain higher than normal levels of E.

[quote]jackdeath wrote:
Also I really don’t want to do the doctor test if I can help it, I see them enough!! Thanks[/quote]

Two doctors caused the death of my former wife by prescribing medications to help her stop smoking because of an abnormal pap smear.

She was prescribed WellButrin. Three days later she had a seizure, went into a coma and died 18 days later.

Guess what I think of the medical community.

Another doctor diagnosed me as having Chrones disease, which I obviously did not have.

Most, not all doctors are overrated.

[quote]sir_tris wrote:
Contraband wrote:
sir_tris wrote:
I take 100mg of DHEA daily. There is no evidence supplementation of it really works. The theory is good, so I subscribe to it.

Your over 40 right? If not, its probably likely your DHEA levels are fine. Either way, might be a good time to get a hormone panel ran.

Yes, I am 51.

I hate doctors and needles. No need for hormonal panels, for me.

Yes, DHEA is converted into Estrogen and many other hormones. This is a reason I use Tamoxifen as it modulates the HPTA, seemingly keeping it in check.[/quote]

Wow, lots of issues here

First off, you need to get over your needle phobia. Quit being a sissy. At 51, it is of concern than you haven’t had a PSA marker done yet, nor a VAP panel, Lpa, etc. These are all important markers.

And do I honestly need to go into the long term ramifications of tamoxifen use? Perhaps

Ok, keep in mind that this is all NEW to me. I’ve done a ton of reading, but as with anything there are many opinions.

I think that a person can tell if some of the levels are down, not only because you are older but in performance. Right?
Now I just read an article right here on this site that says to take “M” with Alpha Male, what is M? To block estrogen.

At 55 your levels have to be down, and I pay my own insurance as I have a private business, so doing the doctor thing right now is not out of the question, just cost wise.

The only thing I take right now is 200 mg of DHEA daily. Can’t say it’s working or not as why I started this tread on a T booster. I don’t know whether to keep taking DHEA with a t boost and this “M” or what.

P.S. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Testosterone delivered transdermally creates more estrogen than injected. Hard to compare to orals, but orals get into the blood stream before getting exposed to aromatase in fat tissue, the same as injectables, so those are probably the same in that regard.

Any increase in T will probably increase E. If AM or an other product has something effective to reduce E, then this might not occur.

When doing TRT and getting high T levels, supplement type anti-estrogens rarely work and are also more costly than the correct drug.

DHEA: Some absorb oral DHEA easily, some hardly at all. You need blood work to know. Test for DHEA-s, not DHEA. DHEA works behind the scenes. Those with higher DHEA levels who present at hospitals with a first heart attack, have a higher survival rate than those with low DHEA. If your DHEA is low, your pregnenolone will also be low and pregnenolone is very important for brain function and memory. [not to be confused with progesterone]. Many need to supplement pregnenolone. Transdermals can be effective and don’t worry about these converting to E from application to the skin. You probably need DHEA and boosting your T with TRT or otherwise does not lessen your need for DHEA. If your DHEA is low, that can reduce the ability to make T. TRT does shutdown the HPTA which shuts down pregnenolone production in the testes. That is a problem. DHEA is made from pregnenolone. Injected hCG can keep the testes working at their [age affected] baseline.

You need to determine your current state. Get a male panel from LEF.org. We can help you figure out the numbers. Do not do saliva or urine tests as many have no idea what the results mean. Then start AM. If you feel fantastic, end of story, but if the results are not what you are expecting, then get more lab numbers and see if the product is effective for you. Note that for AM to work, your HPTA needs to be responsive at both ends, both with the release of LH from the pituitary and the testes then been able to produce more T in response. If your testes are failing, then your LH might already be high. In that case, supplements will be beating a dead horse. If you cannot make LH now, supplements will not change that.

Estrogen: This is very important. Elevated estrogen can destroy energy, thinking, mood and libido, even if T levels are high. Increasing T does no good if E is high.

As we age, there is more and more aromatization of what T we do have. The situation for older men taking T boosting supplements is not the same as for younger men.

Guys who are hypogonadic have not been shown to get TRT type results from anything of a supplement nature. Be open minded and do whatever it takes.

There is probably a lot of terms in this that you do not understand. Google these. If you search for [pregnenolone wiki], it will present material from wikipedia which is good, avoiding every site that wants to sell it.

Remember, when you read how a T supplement works for younger guys, there is good reason to be concerned about how it will work for someone who’s ability to produce T is getting low and on track in the same direction.

[quote]Contraband wrote:
sir_tris wrote:
Contraband wrote:
sir_tris wrote:
I take 100mg of DHEA daily. There is no evidence supplementation of it really works. The theory is good, so I subscribe to it.

Your over 40 right? If not, its probably likely your DHEA levels are fine. Either way, might be a good time to get a hormone panel ran.

Yes, I am 51.

I hate doctors and needles. No need for hormonal panels, for me.

Yes, DHEA is converted into Estrogen and many other hormones. This is a reason I use Tamoxifen as it modulates the HPTA, seemingly keeping it in check.

Wow, lots of issues here

First off, you need to get over your needle phobia. Quit being a sissy. At 51, it is of concern than you haven’t had a PSA marker done yet, nor a VAP panel, Lpa, etc. These are all important markers.

And do I honestly need to go into the long term ramifications of tamoxifen use? Perhaps[/quote]

Issues? Yes, I have them with doctors. If they gave your wife a prescription of drugs to stop her smoking and she died 3 weeks later, you might have some too.

Thanks for your evaluation on the needles, but I am not a sissy. I had my share of needles in my early life when I wasn’t too healthy. More than you can ever imagine. So I just chose to not use them now.

Yes, point me to the information on ramification of long term tamoxifen use.

I could be a candidate for many medical tests, but no thanks. When I feel I need them because something is REALLY wrong with me, I will.

http://www.google.com/search?q=tamoxifen+side+effects&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS177US231

Thanks KSMan. I have read of the side effects of those listed at breastcancer.org

  • blood clots (thrombosis)
  • endometrial cancer (cancer of the uterine lining)
  • abnormal growth of uterine tissue (endometriosis)
  • stroke
  • fertility issues
  • hair and nail thinning

None of them seemed to be alarming. I didn’t see the link about the possibilities of elevating cholesterol before. That one was a problem for me, before I stopped drinking and eating too many bad foods.

Fortunately, I don’t want anymore children and I have been bald for 30 years. Of course there are other more rare side effects.

So your advice is to cycle tamoxifen or just not use it at all?

Is there one particular thing you know of as a problem for men?

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

Ok, so does anyone want to tell me what “M” means when it comes to estrogen and who needs it, and what about Alpha Male? Thank you

[quote]jackdeath wrote:
Ok, so does anyone want to tell me what “M” means when it comes to estrogen and who needs it, and what about Alpha Male? Thank you[/quote]

M? Are you referring to the product? If so, it was an older version of an Anti Estrogen Biotest made. They now include Vitex Agnes Castus in Alpha Male which is a better inhibitor of female hormones then the formulation in M. If you were referring to something else in regard to M please clarify.

D