D-Aspartic Acid

PKS · January 15, 2011, 7:31am

Coach, does d-Asparic acid REALLY cause a rise in estrogen levels like this scaremongering article off the net suggests? I’m assuming not if you are using it.
If it does raise estogen levels would I be ‘covered’ with my normal 3 caps of Rez-V per day or should I up the dose to maybe 2 caps twice per day or even be a bit more aggressive with my estrogen control strategy? Thanks

**>begin aricle:
"Don’t use a D-Aspartic Acid supplement until you read this article, you could be actually doing more harm than good! D-Aspartic Acid is all the rage right now in sports supplements. it has the potential to boost testosterone via multiple pathways, but there is a hidden danger that ALL people need to know about when using this popular bodybuilding product. That danger is from increased estrogen production via aromatase.

D-Aspartic Acid and it’s analogs D-Sodium-Asparate and N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid are becoming very popular with bodybuilders looking to boost their testosterone to the very highest levels. However this has a very ugly side effect that could potentially make this innocent supplement the devil in disguise. It works by increasing something called steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein, which is a critical enzyme in the production of testosterone. It is found in the testes and is a rate limiting step in the creation of testosterone. Increasing the activity of StAR is one of the main ways that DAA helps the body make more testosterone and it was shown in human studies that D-Aspartic Acid can give roughly a 30% increase in testosterone production! This is amazing for a completely natural product, but that boost in testosterone has one downside that may actually be making your situation worse! The good news is that if reversed, it could actually make the conversion to testosterone even higher and could boost your testosterone levels above 30%!

Aromatase is a nasty enzyme that is responsible for converting testosterone to estrogen in the body. It is what robs the bodybuilder of the robust effects of testosterone and changes the balance of your hormones. As we age, we produce even more aromatase and that is often why you see men getting fat, soft and flabby as they get older. Aromatase and it’s end product estrogen are the enemy of any man wanting to keep that rock hard physique and feel his best! Unfortunately it seems that the “holy grail” of supplements D-Aspartic Acid may actually cause the body to produce more aromatase, which is something you definitely don’t want! Making all of that extra testosterone isn’t going to do you much good if a large part of it converts to estrogen in the body, so you want to stop that from happening! It has been shown in the literature that D-Aspartic Acid can increase testicular aromatase levels, making your testosterone to estrogen ratio sub par (1,2,3) which can certainly be an issue for the bodybuilder. Luckily, you can add in some very potent aromatase inhibitors that will stop the conversion of testosterone to estrogen by binding and locking up aromatase! You will want to use a combination of a competitive inhibitor of aromatase and a suicide inhibitor of aromatase to maximize the benefits of D-Aspartic Acid!

Two aromatase inhibitors are on the market that will do the job quite nicely and they are very potent. The combination of these should give you all the boost you need to really check the aromatase enzyme and keep estrogen levels down! That combined with a pure D-Aspartic Acid product will give you a solid one-two punch that will deliver results! The first ingredient is 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One, which is a competitive inhibitor of aromatase that is in the same potency range as prescription drugs used by bodybuilders to reduce estrogen, like Arimidex(R). 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One has a very strong affinity for the aromatase enzyme, giving an almost drug like inhibition! This will work great with D-Aspartic Acid and it’s analog N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid at reducing that testicular aromatase and increasing testosterone even further. The competitive inhibitor will benefit from a suicide inhibitor, which are getting harder to find these days! The only one really left on the market is 3-Beta-Hydroxy-Urs-12-En-28-Oic Acid, which is a fairly weak suicide inhibitor, but it is very effective in combination with the above mentioned 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One! The combination of these two is a very good addition to any D-Aspartic Acid cycle and should always be used in my opinion.

One product on the market has both 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One and 3-Beta-Hydroxy-Urs-12-En-28-Oic Acid in addition to Ginger extract which should also supercharge the effects of D-Aspartic Acid and that is ####### from ####### (also called ###### on some web sites). Ginger increases conversion of cholesterol to testosterone as well, making it a natural stack with D-Aspartic Acid. So, ####### has it all when it comes to being stacked with D-Aspartic Acid and the only formula that I know of that has both aromatase inhibitors.

So, there you have it! D-Aspartic Acid is an exciting supplement that can certainly increase testosterone, but it should be stacked with aromatase inhibitors for maximal effects!"

References:

Amino Acids. 2007 Jan;32(1):45-51. Epub 2006 Jun 1. Involvement of D-Asp in P450 aromatase activity and estrogen receptors in boar testis. Lamanna C, Assisi L, Botte V, Di Fiore MM. Department of Life Sciences, Second University of Naples, Caserta, Italy.
J Endocrinol Invest. 2006 Feb;29(2):141-6. Endogenous testicular D-aspartic acid regulates gonadal aromatase activity in boar. Lamanna C, Assisi L, Botte V, Di Fiore MM. Department of Zoology, University of Naples ‘Federico II’, Naples, Italy.
Reproduction. 2001 May;121(5):803-8. Enhancement of aromatase activity by D-aspartic acid in the ovary of the lizard Podarcis s. sicula. Assisi L, Botte V, D’Aniello A, Di Fiore MM. Department of Zoology, Faculty of Science, University of Naples, Via Mezzocannone 8, 80134 Naples, Italy.

<end article**

buffd_samurai · January 15, 2011, 6:06pm

Anytime one increases testosterone there is the follow on effect of raising estrogen.
This happens whether you inject exogenous test, HcG, take Clomid or Tamoxifin, take Alpha Male (for those who respond to this)…anything that raises your hormone levels.

To me, this “scare” is another “proof” that D-aspartic acid works for some as an effective T-booster. When you play with manipulation of hormones via pharmaceutical means or “natural supplement” means (I am one to look at either as exogenous intake), you have to understand that there is a cascading hormonal downstream effect. In this case, increased T always results in increasd E depending on YOUR body’s physiological make up (if you have higher aromatase than another, of course you’re going to have more T to E conversion).

A little arimidex in every man’s arsenal goes a long long way to helping with this.

PKS · January 16, 2011, 1:45am

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
Anytime one increases testosterone there is the follow on effect of raising estrogen.
This happens whether you inject exogenous test, HcG, take Clomid or Tamoxifin, take Alpha Male (for those who respond to this)…anything that raises your hormone levels.

To me, this “scare” is another “proof” that D-aspartic acid works for some as an effective T-booster. When you play with manipulation of hormones via pharmaceutical means or “natural supplement” means (I am one to look at either as exogenous intake), you have to understand that there is a cascading hormonal downstream effect. In this case, increased T always results in increasd E depending on YOUR body’s physiological make up (if you have higher aromatase than another, of course you’re going to have more T to E conversion).

A little arimidex in every man’s arsenal goes a long long way to helping with this. [/quote]

Thanks buffd - great, concise explanation. I kinda knew this already but I guess I was hoping to get a ‘free hit’ T-booster without having to start messing with arimidex and stuff like that. Oh well…sigh

…but, I was thinking of maybe using D-Aspartic Acid for only the really tough weeks (3 and 6 - high volume weeks) of Thibs HP Mass Program for a bit of a kick. I’m reasonably lean -6pk abs- but I’m not shredded, so aromatase conversion or long term negative hormonal effects shouldn’t be too much of a worry. What do you think? I dont use Alpha Male, but do use Tongkat Ali on most of my training days. Also am gonna start using Carbolin 19 soon. Curious, have you used it or are you a fan?

buffd_samurai · January 16, 2011, 10:39pm

I am a huge fan of Carbolin 19…too bad it is no longer available (Biotest…I am going to assume you have CANCELLED this product because we get NO news of its availability. It has been frickin’ out of stock now for MONTHS if not YEARS).

T-boosters are hit and miss for many. If you are one of the lucky ones who use it and get an actual hormonal positive response, congratulations. Many WON’T.

PB_Andy · January 16, 2011, 11:07pm

I bought some PrimaForce just for the hell of it.

Christian_Thibaudeau · January 17, 2011, 12:29pm

As Samurai pointed out, everytime you increase testosterone you also risk increasing estrogen somewhat, mostly because excessive testosterone can be “converted” (aromatization) into estrogen. Some are more prone to aromatization than others (generally speaking the fatter your are, the more you aromatize) but my experience with DAA and that of others seem to show that excessive estrogen elevation doesn’t happen.

gabex · January 17, 2011, 2:44pm

Not to hijack, but Christian, what is your opinion on DIM? Thanks

Christian_Thibaudeau · January 17, 2011, 4:52pm

[quote]gabex wrote:
Not to hijack, but Christian, what is your opinion on DIM? Thanks[/quote]

Honestly, never got any benefits from it myself but I’m really not someone who has a high estrogen level nor do I aromatize easily. I’m not saying that it wont work, but from experience with myself and my clients it is not something that I would put high on my list.

theceka · January 17, 2011, 4:55pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
As Samurai pointed out, everytime you increase testosterone you also risk increasing estrogen somewhat, mostly because excessive testosterone can be “converted” (aromatization) into estrogen. Some are more prone to aromatization than others (generally speaking the fatter your are, the more you aromatize) but my experience with DAA and that of others seem to show that excessive estrogen elevation doesn’t happen.[/quote]

CT, considering you’ve used it, would you recommend DAA as a natural T booster? Has your experience been positive?

Thanks

Christian_Thibaudeau · January 17, 2011, 5:21pm

[quote]theceka wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
As Samurai pointed out, everytime you increase testosterone you also risk increasing estrogen somewhat, mostly because excessive testosterone can be “converted” (aromatization) into estrogen. Some are more prone to aromatization than others (generally speaking the fatter your are, the more you aromatize) but my experience with DAA and that of others seem to show that excessive estrogen elevation doesn’t happen.[/quote]

CT, considering you’ve used it, would you recommend DAA as a natural T booster? Has your experience been positive?

Thanks
[/quote]

Yes I would.

Sik · January 17, 2011, 5:26pm

Maybe some of you shall give a try to Neetle Root or Resveratrol with DAA.

Mutsanah · January 17, 2011, 9:07pm

Why DAA instead of Alpha Male?

Christian_Thibaudeau · January 18, 2011, 2:02am

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Why DAA instead of Alpha Male?[/quote]

I use both… they both work via different pathways

PKS · January 18, 2011, 2:35am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
As Samurai pointed out, everytime you increase testosterone you also risk increasing estrogen somewhat, mostly because excessive testosterone can be “converted” (aromatization) into estrogen. Some are more prone to aromatization than others (generally speaking the fatter your are, the more you aromatize) but my experience with DAA and that of others seem to show that excessive estrogen elevation doesn’t happen.[/quote]

Ok good to know, thanks.

I feel as though I may have more aromatize activity in my body relative to your good self as I:

Am not as lean as you even at a lighter bodyweight of 209lbs, and
…had a very ‘estrogenic’ moment last week. I nearly teared up like a little girl when the Colts fucked up the last couple of minutes of their last drive to get knocked out of the playoffs. It was a highly emotional…

So, to minimize any potential issues for me when I use it, would a ‘cycle’ of using it one week out of three (to coincide with weeks 3 and 6 of your HP Mass Program) be a good strategy? FYI, I do use 3 caps of Rez-V per day.

Any other advice you could give on it’s use (like effective stacking or rotatation with Alpha Male) would be awesome!

Cheers,
Pete

Sik · January 18, 2011, 1:28pm

DAA take time to really work.

Most of the best results need time, it will be constructed along with time.

Imo one DAA cycle will be at least 90 days. (thanks Datbtrue)

Mutsanah · January 19, 2011, 5:39am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Why DAA instead of Alpha Male?[/quote]

I use both… they both work via different pathways[/quote]

Coach:

Do you have any experience or opinion regarding supplemental over-the-counter pregnenolone? 25-50 mgs / day

Thanks,
M

mmajic · January 19, 2011, 11:31am

fenugreek seed extract seems to be better at dealing with estrogen and bodyfat…it would make a good addition to DAA…but maybe a test booster is only a good idea when we are on a pulse feast for a week straight or more

jedalger · January 23, 2011, 10:27pm

For those who have taken DAA - any recommendations on which manufacturer to buy? (Wish Biotest made a DAA product)

ashylarryku · January 23, 2011, 11:31pm

[quote]jedalger wrote:
For those who have taken DAA - any recommendations on which manufacturer to buy? (Wish Biotest made a DAA product)[/quote]

There was a thread from about a year ago and one of the mods was posting in it saying they were working on it:

https://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/daspartic_acid_and_othe_dform_aminos?id=3830598&pageNo=0

Tim Ziegenfuss says something about it about halfway down the first page.

Toshiero · January 23, 2011, 11:53pm

So what is a good product that has legit DAA in it? I have low test, too much belly blah blah blah and I am trying to work on it naturally since no doctor in Tulsa knows shit about TRT. also I do think with my fat gain estrogen has become an issue as well so with the tulsa docs not knowing, how do you go about getting Arimidex just to make sure Estrogen is under control?