5/3/1 with Arm Specialization

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:
I would just do the minimum reps for the main lifts. [/quote]

^^this would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the doing 531 IMO[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from but I was basing this advice on Jim’s ebook 5/3/1 for Powerlifting where he has a “mass template” (someone mentioned above actually) in which he advises to just hit the minimum reps so you have more energy left to push the assistance work for more weight/volume.

I think he had some other article where he said if your main goal was increasing muscle mass just hit the minimum # of reps each week. Might be mistaken though (has happened before)

An arm specialization routine will definitely hurt your heavy lifts while you’re on it. I’d recommend doing the arm routine for a period of time, and then going back to 5 3 1 for strength/ size gains throughout.

[quote]al1492 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:
I would just do the minimum reps for the main lifts. [/quote]

^^this would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the doing 531 IMO[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from but I was basing this advice on Jim’s ebook 5/3/1 for Powerlifting where he has a “mass template” (someone mentioned above actually) in which he advises to just hit the minimum reps so you have more energy left to push the assistance work for more weight/volume.

I think he had some other article where he said if your main goal was increasing muscle mass just hit the minimum # of reps each week. Might be mistaken though (has happened before)[/quote]

This is right. I do the same when I’m focusing more on my conditioning. Nothing wrong with it and you won’t necessarily get stronger but that’s not the goal.

[quote]TheTexican wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:
I would just do the minimum reps for the main lifts. [/quote]

^^this would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the doing 531 IMO[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from but I was basing this advice on Jim’s ebook 5/3/1 for Powerlifting where he has a “mass template” (someone mentioned above actually) in which he advises to just hit the minimum reps so you have more energy left to push the assistance work for more weight/volume.

I think he had some other article where he said if your main goal was increasing muscle mass just hit the minimum # of reps each week. Might be mistaken though (has happened before)[/quote]

This is right. I do the same when I’m focusing more on my conditioning. Nothing wrong with it and you won’t necessarily get stronger but that’s not the goal.[/quote]

why would you be doing 531 (a STRENGTH GAINING program) when your goal is not to get stronger? What?

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]TheTexican wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:
I would just do the minimum reps for the main lifts. [/quote]

^^this would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the doing 531 IMO[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from but I was basing this advice on Jim’s ebook 5/3/1 for Powerlifting where he has a “mass template” (someone mentioned above actually) in which he advises to just hit the minimum reps so you have more energy left to push the assistance work for more weight/volume.

I think he had some other article where he said if your main goal was increasing muscle mass just hit the minimum # of reps each week. Might be mistaken though (has happened before)[/quote]

This is right. I do the same when I’m focusing more on my conditioning. Nothing wrong with it and you won’t necessarily get stronger but that’s not the goal.[/quote]

why would you be doing 531 (a STRENGTH GAINING program) when your goal is not to get stronger? What?
[/quote]

Have you even read the books?

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]TheTexican wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:
I would just do the minimum reps for the main lifts. [/quote]

^^this would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the doing 531 IMO[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from but I was basing this advice on Jim’s ebook 5/3/1 for Powerlifting where he has a “mass template” (someone mentioned above actually) in which he advises to just hit the minimum reps so you have more energy left to push the assistance work for more weight/volume.

I think he had some other article where he said if your main goal was increasing muscle mass just hit the minimum # of reps each week. Might be mistaken though (has happened before)[/quote]

This is right. I do the same when I’m focusing more on my conditioning. Nothing wrong with it and you won’t necessarily get stronger but that’s not the goal.[/quote]

why would you be doing 531 (a STRENGTH GAINING program) when your goal is not to get stronger? What?
[/quote]

Im on the same page on you on this but unfortunately no matter what anyones goal is on this site, 5/3/1 is always recomended lol

just do 5/3/1

have you tried 5/3/1?

oh you want to get bigger arms? well you can do 5/3/1

just do 5/3/1 then eat a lot and come back in 6 months

im soo tired about hearing about this f`kn program lol

/rant over

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]TheTexican wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]al1492 wrote:
I would just do the minimum reps for the main lifts. [/quote]

^^this would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the doing 531 IMO[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from but I was basing this advice on Jim’s ebook 5/3/1 for Powerlifting where he has a “mass template” (someone mentioned above actually) in which he advises to just hit the minimum reps so you have more energy left to push the assistance work for more weight/volume.

I think he had some other article where he said if your main goal was increasing muscle mass just hit the minimum # of reps each week. Might be mistaken though (has happened before)[/quote]

This is right. I do the same when I’m focusing more on my conditioning. Nothing wrong with it and you won’t necessarily get stronger but that’s not the goal.[/quote]

why would you be doing 531 (a STRENGTH GAINING program) when your goal is not to get stronger? What?
[/quote]

Im on the same page on you on this but unfortunately no matter what anyones goal is on this site, 5/3/1 is always recomended lol

just do 5/3/1

have you tried 5/3/1?

oh you want to get bigger arms? well you can do 5/3/1

just do 5/3/1 then eat a lot and come back in 6 months

im soo tired about hearing about this f`kn program lol

/rant over
[/quote]

No one prescribed 531 for the OP. He asked a question about it. As far as doing the program with a goal other than getting stronger. Wendler has said many times your specific goal may change from time to time and it is ok to just go into more of a strength maintanence period if you actually want to get leaner or into better condition, it is actually recommended to not constantly push your third sets all the time.

This concept does require a bit of critical thinking and the ability to understand the effect of different training modalities on your total ability to recover and progress.

To answer specific questions, I focus on my conditioning more than increasing my total strength from time to time for my job, and 531 is a great way to keep my strength levels up while I’m focusing on another area of overall physical improvement. With that said, if OP wants to, for the most part hit just prescribed reps, do some compound assistance, then some direct armwork (as would be my recommendation), he could maintain his base of strength and try to get some HUUUUGE GUNZ in the process and have more energy to reach his goal rather than use it all trying to get new rep PR’s every week.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]The Rattler wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Like Gregon said you can incorporate some arm work into your assistance work. On OHP day you will most likely be doing 5x10 pull ups for assistance, and 5 x 10 dips on your Bench day. Both these get the arms real good. [/quote]

While both of these do hit your arms to some degree, I think Gregon means that he could include some actual isolation work for his arms as part of his accessory work. So for example on his bench day he could include some sort of pushdown and on the deadlift day he could do some form of curl. I don’t see that doing this would take away much from his recovery and stop progression in the four main lifts.[/quote]

^^this is correct.

I was doing the pull ups and dips on their respective days… but this is something like what I was doing

OHP Day:
all the regular movements that were prescribed
Skull Crushers

DL Day:
all the regular movements that were prescribed
EZ Bar Preacher Curl

Bench Day:
all the regular movements that were prescribed
Overhead Tricep Extension w/ Cables

Squat Day:
all the regular movements that were prescribed
Alt DB Curl

You’ll be hitting the main lifts first when you’re fresh and should definitely have enough time to recover between “upper body” days and the “lower body” ones so you’re main lifts should keep progressing. I just added in some direct arm work at the end of each workout. I did Bi’s on lower days and tri’s on upper days.[/quote]

I’m about to start 531 for the first time on Monday and this is pretty much what I will be doing. I’m used to higher volume so I don’t think recovery will be an issue at all and my arms will still get to grow from direct work.

531 cured my AIDS

[quote]TheTexican wrote:
Have you even read the books? [/quote]

yep and I’ve ran it more than once.

531 is a programed designed to get you stronger at the 4 main lifts (squat, bench, dead and OHP) is it not?

if you want to bring up semantics and argue for the sake of arguing then save it. Its a program that was designed with the purpose of getting you stronger in the big 4 lifts.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]TheTexican wrote:
Have you even read the books? [/quote]

yep and I’ve ran it more than once.

531 is a programed designed to get you stronger at the 4 main lifts (squat, bench, dead and OHP) is it not?

if you want to bring up semantics and argue for the sake of arguing then save it. Its a program that was designed with the purpose of getting you stronger in the big 4 lifts.[/quote]

Not trying to argue and I totally agree with you. I never tried to argue as it was you who questioned my post. I just know if you are running a 531 and choose to seek out a different goal (serving one master) your programming will vary slightly in different cycles. I actually agree with your recommendations and I even stated that.

ha this thread is still going…

If arms is such a big deal than why not just do a 5/3/1 arms day with bb curl on day 5? Assuming all th 4 core lifts are out of the way for the week and you actually have the time.

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
If arms is such a big deal than why not just do a 5/3/1 arms day with bb curl on day 5? Assuming all th 4 core lifts are out of the way for the week and you actually have the time. [/quote]

So applying the 531 percentages to BB curl?

I think that’s a terrible idea, how many BBs have big arms by concentraing on low rep high strength curls?

Adding a 5th arm day, and doing more traditional volume for bicep/triceps may work or may be too much for some.

I have run 5/3/1 for about 18 months…I do the 4 day a week program (Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri), and add an arm day on Sat (traditional bodybuilding style).

There is no problem adding arm work to the program…seriously, 2 pages to ask if you can add arm work to 5/3/1??

Don’t over think it.

I am the one that started the thread. I wanted to see how many purists we have (pure bodybuilding or pure powerlifting/strength.) I am here to say there is a close line between bodybuilding and powerlifting. You can get strong bodybuilding and you can get big powerlifting.

Lokk at the routines 10x10, pyramiting, 5x5, 5/3/1, wave. There is an advantage to all routines for both getting strong and getting big. Why not do both. 5/3/1 with a arm specialization is just that. Some say that you can’t recover. Look at some of the hottest workouts in the iron game like HFT (per Chad Waterbury) that hits all bodyparts everyday. I have been lifting for 45 years and tried every routine and it depends on the individual person and their DNA.

BTW, we is it that someone asks a question from you so called experts and we are attacked personally as not knowing what we are talking about. I thought that is what this Blog is all about…

and yes I have done many cycles of 5/3/1 (boring but big.) and yes I have read the ebook…

[quote]TheTexican wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]TheTexican wrote:
Have you even read the books? [/quote]

yep and I’ve ran it more than once.

531 is a programed designed to get you stronger at the 4 main lifts (squat, bench, dead and OHP) is it not?

if you want to bring up semantics and argue for the sake of arguing then save it. Its a program that was designed with the purpose of getting you stronger in the big 4 lifts.[/quote]

Not trying to argue and I totally agree with you. I never tried to argue as it was you who questioned my post. I just know if you are running a 531 and choose to seek out a different goal (serving one master) your programming will vary slightly in different cycles. I actually agree with your recommendations and I even stated that. [/quote]

we must have had a misunderstanding somewhere then lol

I thought you were saying that 531 wasnt a program designed for strength gain. my bad.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I have run 5/3/1 for about 18 months…I do the 4 day a week program (Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri), and add an arm day on Sat (traditional bodybuilding style).

There is no problem adding arm work to the program…seriously, 2 pages to ask if you can add arm work to 5/3/1??

Don’t over think it.[/quote]

Hes right just ad a arm day… I was only throwing it out there that you could do a 5/3/1 arm day… Do it however you want

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I have run 5/3/1 for about 18 months…I do the 4 day a week program (Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri), and add an arm day on Sat (traditional bodybuilding style).

There is no problem adding arm work to the program…seriously, 2 pages to ask if you can add arm work to 5/3/1??

Don’t over think it.[/quote]

Hes right just ad a arm day… I was only throwing it out there that you could do a 5/3/1 arm day… Do it however you want[/quote]

I believe Jim actually states either in his book or one of his threads here that 5/3/1 does even work with Arm Curls. To me it seems if you get the 4 main lifts and good assistance work, Chins, rows, etc, then adding a 5th day for arms isn’t a bad idea.