During the first week of a 5/3/1 cycle, I add in heavy singles to my deadlift workout in order to get used to heavy pulls. I do this because I don’t think that sets of 10 or so don’t carryover much to maximal strength. On the other hand, it might be better to just do it the way it’s written and worry about it on Week 3…
Eh…what do you guys think? Just trying to get a few opinions here.
I think you are no longer doing 5/3/1 then.
[quote]Lanolar wrote:
I think you are no longer doing 5/3/1 then.[/quote]
Good point. Wendler approves of adding singles, though.
I would still suggest volume over singles (as accessory work)as a beginner though. You will see more return from that for now.
I think if you’re doing a contest in the near future this is a good idea. If not I wouldn’t sweat it.
I did 385x7 on my “3” week. Then on my 531 week I did 405 for a single with the intention of working up to a max. I tried 430 and failed so my top end strength was well below what the rep max would suggest.
Then over the next 6 weeks or so, I did lots of singles and doubles in preperation for a meet. I ended up pulling 457 with a little bit (at most 10 lbs) left in the tank.
I think the 531 builds a good strength base, but it isn’t specific to expressing a 1rm. If that is what your goal is (i.e. you’re going to enter a contest) it is likely a good idea to do some heavy singles. If you aren’t entering a contest any time soon, there really is no need to add them.
[quote]Lanolar wrote:
I would still suggest volume over singles (as accessory work)as a beginner though. You will see more return from that for now.[/quote]
Not quite a beginner, bro. But, I’ll probably stick with volume for now.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
I think if you’re doing a contest in the near future this is a good idea. If not I wouldn’t sweat it.
I did 385x7 on my “3” week. Then on my 531 week I did 405 for a single with the intention of working up to a max. I tried 430 and failed so my top end strength was well below what the rep max would suggest.
Then over the next 6 weeks or so, I did lots of singles and doubles in preperation for a meet. I ended up pulling 457 with a little bit (at most 10 lbs) left in the tank.
I think the 531 builds a good strength base, but it isn’t specific to expressing a 1rm. If that is what your goal is (i.e. you’re going to enter a contest) it is likely a good idea to do some heavy singles. If you aren’t entering a contest any time soon, there really is no need to add them.[/quote]
Thanks for the advice. I don’t compete, but I’m shooting for a 405 pull by the end of the year.
Cool, no offense meant with saying your a beginner. As long as you feel your making gains following the program as written and going all out on your heavy sets, I would just stick with it. I really am a fan on the 5/3/1 concept and think it works best if people stick with the small increases and such. Best of luck.
[quote]xjusticex2013x wrote:
[quote]Lanolar wrote:
I would still suggest volume over singles (as accessory work)as a beginner though. You will see more return from that for now.[/quote]
Not quite a beginner, bro. But, I’ll probably stick with volume for now.[/quote]
Yeah it sounds like sticking with the program would be your best option. That being said, it is important to have some fun in the gym. If you feel on occasion like doing a heavy single, then go for it.
If you’re making progress, IMO don’t fix what’s not broken.
Matt Rhodes has a variation of 5/3/1 that inlcudes singles it looks pretty sweet. Google 5/3/1 + singles (real creative name I know)
Wendler has said in his Q&A that adding 2-3 heavy singles to get used to handling the weight is fine.
I do it occasionally with squat and bench. It fries me for a few days to do it with deads though.
For DL, I usually add a couple singles as well. I do the same sometimes for strict press, since I’ve never been all that used to max end strict presses.
i’ve been adding singles on bench from time to time, thinking of trying 245 next wednesday after my final set.
If you just started the program don’t worry too much about singles. The program is just to get you strong, not increase your 1RM. I would suggest after your last set, if you feel like it go for a single of higher weight. Don’t plan on doing it certain days, just go off how you feel after the last set. The rep range for strength is 1-6 so you’ll be doing that on week 3 and eventually week 2 as the weights go up. Doing singles isn’t necessary for your goals but it is an approved assistance lift.
A friend of mine does a PR week instead of deloading every other cycle. For the most part, it seems to be working well for him. Of course, it depends on which theory you buy into (that a 1RM is a test of strength, or is it teaching you how to strain/recruit/whatever).
Anyways, back on topic, I think Wendler mentioned something like doing a couple of singles after your top set, or if you’re feeling particularly good on that day to just go ahead and try for a PR instead of repping out.
BTW, what constitutes a beginner is VERY subjective, just saying.
I’ve decided to compete early next year and have decided to work in heavy(ish!) doubles and single in my 3, & 5/3/1 weeks to gauge where i’m at, I will be doing 3 week first, then 5 week for perscribed reps only followed by 5/3/1. Im not a 1RM live or die lifter but i’ve been doing the program for best part of 2 years and really want to know where i’m at in preparation for the meet. Ive just done my first heavy double bench session in a long time and am really shocked at how shite i lifted it!. Before I started the program I could have easily hit this conservative weight for 4 but barely managed 2. Now before anybody jumps on my training I’ve followed it to the letter, decreased maxes dramatically and trained smart(always picking my battles). My reps have increased alot in all lifts and my squat & deadlift rms have also improved quite a bit when jumping from lighter high reps to heavy doubles or singles every 5 - 6 cycles however I’m part of the trend that seems to make little or no progress in bench. I’m gonna keep with this routine for the next 2-3 cycles but am disappointed at bench compared with the other 2 main lifts and from reading through the thread I seem to be not alot.
Oh and by the way i’m not a wendler hater as far as the other 3 lifts go this program is the shit and up to now i wouldnt change a thing.
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
I’m part of the trend that seems to make little or no progress in bench. I’m gonna keep with this routine for the next 2-3 cycles but am disappointed at bench compared with the other 2 main lifts and from reading through the thread I seem to be not alot.
[/quote]
Try putting the bench assistance on MP day (and MP assistance on BP day); some people just need to press (bench or military) more often to make gains.
About singles…the subject has been already answered many times: if you need/want to do them, do them every other week (you can do week 1: 3’s+singles, week 2: 5’s, week 3: 5-3-1+singles) and don’t burn yourself out (no maximal effort, don’t try it if you’re not sure to get it, don’t go for max reps on your last scheduled set, etc…).
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
I’ve decided to compete early next year and have decided to work in heavy(ish!) doubles and single in my 3, & 5/3/1 weeks to gauge where i’m at, I will be doing 3 week first, then 5 week for perscribed reps only followed by 5/3/1. Im not a 1RM live or die lifter but i’ve been doing the program for best part of 2 years and really want to know where i’m at in preparation for the meet. Ive just done my first heavy double bench session in a long time and am really shocked at how shite i lifted it!. Before I started the program I could have easily hit this conservative weight for 4 but barely managed 2. Now before anybody jumps on my training I’ve followed it to the letter, decreased maxes dramatically and trained smart(always picking my battles). My reps have increased alot in all lifts and my squat & deadlift rms have also improved quite a bit when jumping from lighter high reps to heavy doubles or singles every 5 - 6 cycles however I’m part of the trend that seems to make little or no progress in bench. I’m gonna keep with this routine for the next 2-3 cycles but am disappointed at bench compared with the other 2 main lifts and from reading through the thread I seem to be not alot.
Oh and by the way i’m not a wendler hater as far as the other 3 lifts go this program is the shit and up to now i wouldnt change a thing. [/quote]
I kind of agree on the bench thing but still working on find a better alternative for it. Just start to experiment with other stuff as long as it does not effect the other 3 days that much. I have been doing more bench assistance on OH Press day and actually not much volume at all on Bench day for pressing. One thing I have not tried yet but want to is reset the 5/3/1 bench to something that allows a lot more reps, up to 15 on week 1 or something. That should allow many months where even week 3 is 5+ reps. I initially made good progress on Bench but once my max reps got to 4 or so it went down fast as the weight went up.
I am continually suprised to learn that guys are making very little progress with the bench. If I make the 245x1 this week that will be a 25lb increase in 8 weeks.