[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
GrindOverMatter wrote:
audiogarden1 wrote:
Yeah i was originally thinking either weighted pull ups or Bent over rows for the main lift but i guess i have to face the fact that nothing besides DLs is gonna be quite so CNS intensive.
i said this earlier but ill say it again
try using a sumo stance instead of convential, its puts less stress on the low back
agreed, and i dont even pull sumo. although the deadlift certainly works the back, it works a lot more than just your back.
in other words, 5/3/1 has two upper body days and two lower body days. why would you replace deadlifts (one of the lower body days) with pullups or rows, etc. if you do that, youre missing the point.
The point is to gain strength. Generally, bent over rows and weighted pullups help one gain strength… so i dont think itd be the worst idea in the world.
And if i cant DL id rather have another back intensive exercise than do more squats since my legs are usually cashed after heavy squats for several days. [/quote]
There are not too many alternative lifts I can think of that would fit the 5-3-1 template very well as the primary lift. Bent over row would probably fit though. If you really can’t do deadlift or any of its variations then you don’t have much choice. I would at least do stuff like back extensions and maybe deadlifts at lighter weight as your assistance work on that day.
Probably a better question for the 5-3-1 thread but since I’m posting here… Has anyone ever done another lift as part of the assistance work following the 5-3-1 progression? Bent over row was actually the one I was considering doing this for as the 2nd lift on either Bench or DL day.
Probably a better question for the 5-3-1 thread but since I’m posting here… Has anyone ever done another lift as part of the assistance work following the 5-3-1 progression? Bent over row was actually the one I was considering doing this for as the 2nd lift on either Bench or DL day.[/quote]
I don’t follow Wendler’s advice for the assistance work and as of a couple of weeks ago I’ve started doing DL 5/3/1 followed by Front Squat 5/3/1 followed by DB rows, cable rows and pull-ups on the same day.
I know the program was sold on simplicity but there’s no reason not to adapt it to your needs, just back off the volume if your strength stops increasing in the main lifts. Must admit, I have to eat everything in sight and sleep like a log now… but those are two of the reasons I love this program.
Can you do pull thrus. I know alot of ppl aren’t able to load them because of the available equipment in their gym, but if you have a way to load it heavy it could help you out. Some ppl feel them more in their back but I feel them right in the hams and glutes.
I wouldn’t give up on a posterior chain movement as the 4th day in 531. And doing 3 upper days (bench, OHP, and rows) would be a whole lot of volume for the upper body. Try to find a posterior chain movement that you can tolerate. Have you tried single leg deads? If you buy into what Boyle has been saying of late, and with you back being your obvious limiting factor, you could have a single leg DL as the forth core 531 lift.
Maybe you could use the weighted hip thrusts recently written about. I have used them as an assistance lift on my 5/3/1 deadlift days and they seem like they could be easily adapted to higher loads and a 5/3/1 model.
I would also work in some type of leg curl and single leg deadlifts. As a grappler your grip is very important. Maybe heavy shrugs or farmers walks, if they don’t hurt your back too much.
[quote]P-Ha wrote:
Maybe you could use the weighted hip thrusts recently written about. I have used them as an assistance lift on my 5/3/1 deadlift days and they seem like they could be easily adapted to higher loads and a 5/3/1 model.
I would also work in some type of leg curl and single leg deadlifts. As a grappler your grip is very important. Maybe heavy shrugs or farmers walks, if they don’t hurt your back too much.
[/quote]
Yeah i already do heavy DB shrugs, those dont bother me at all. I do leg curls also and currently for lower back im just doing hyperextensions with a 45 lb plate, obviously not in the 5-3-1 format. For my bench and squat days and going 5-3-1 though.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Any advice on the best replacement lift to center that day around? BTW i post this in BBing forum instead of PLing because im doing a slightly modified version more geared towards hypertrophy for the assistance lifts. I will be following the 5-3-1 format for the main lifts though. [/quote]
How have you modified the assistance to move more towards hypertrophy?
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
P-Ha wrote:
Maybe you could use the weighted hip thrusts recently written about. I have used them as an assistance lift on my 5/3/1 deadlift days and they seem like they could be easily adapted to higher loads and a 5/3/1 model.
I would also work in some type of leg curl and single leg deadlifts. As a grappler your grip is very important. Maybe heavy shrugs or farmers walks, if they don’t hurt your back too much.
Yeah i already do heavy DB shrugs, those dont bother me at all. I do leg curls also and currently for lower back im just doing hyperextensions with a 45 lb plate, obviously not in the 5-3-1 format. For my bench and squat days and going 5-3-1 though.[/quote]
You could do a hex bar dead lift. That takes the stress from the weight being in front of you and places it directly under the shoulders. It would relieve the stress on the back.
[quote]spdrman3 wrote:
You could do a hex bar dead lift. That takes the stress from the weight being in front of you and places it directly under the shoulders. It would relieve the stress on the back.[/quote]
^^^This
Wendler even says in his 5/3/1 book that trap bar (hex) deadlifts are the only suitable replacement for deadlifts in his program.
I think trap bars are even better than barbell deadlifts for bodybuilding purposes because your less likely to injure yourself and you can push yourself a lot harder on them because you don’t have to worry so much about form.
[quote]punkguitarist wrote:
spdrman3 wrote:
You could do a hex bar dead lift. That takes the stress from the weight being in front of you and places it directly under the shoulders. It would relieve the stress on the back.
^^^This
Wendler even says in his 5/3/1 book that trap bar (hex) deadlifts are the only suitable replacement for deadlifts in his program.
I think trap bars are even better than barbell deadlifts for bodybuilding purposes because your less likely to injure yourself and you can push yourself a lot harder on them because you don’t have to worry so much about form.
[/quote]
I was thinking this myself. I hurt my back a little with conventional deadlifts on the last round of 531, took a little more than a week to deload, and today I’m going to try out the trap bar at my new gym for at least this round just to be safe.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Im beginning a 5-3-1 program this week and have never done it before, one of the things im not too sure about is a proper replacement exercise for DLs. I have been pretty good at DLs and rack pulls when im doing them but due to past back injuries, i can never go more than 2 or 3 months doing heavy DLs or rack pulls without my back getting really irritating and tight again so im looking to take them out of the equation all together.
[/quote]
I got to this thread because I searched for a replacement for deadlifts and Wendler 531. I have a herniated disc in my lower back. I tried deadlifts for the last 9 weeks and it is doing me more harm than good. I am dropping them and doing general back work instead. The three main lifts will have to do.